Poll of the Day > Why can't robots use magic?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I mean, they have souls just as much as anyone if that's part of the deal...

And for systems with strict magical science behind them (like FMA, for the most part) they should be able to (and in FMA, they can)

Few things here, Lok:

1. Magic is fiction. Whomever is drumming up the plot can choose to make magic-users of robots...
2. ... which you yourself acknowledge:

Lokarin posted...

And for systems with strict magical science behind them (like FMA, for the most part) they should be able to (and in FMA, they can)

You contradict your own topic, bud

Since they don't have hearts, what would the bile sac be attached to?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/5/1/AAUdByAAEw2L.jpg

Because only living creatures emit the energy field created by midichlorians.

Mokka from Magical Starsign is a robot and specializes in Earth magic.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/8/5/AAQwHjAAEw2t.jpg

I think it's a decent restriction in theory, otherwise who could stop them?

Who says they can't?

Vision in mcu is powered by a magic stone
The Naruto puppets are basically magic robots
Luke and Vader were cyborgs that could use the force

faz posted...

Since they don't have hearts, what would the bile sac be attached to?

Love owl house. But even there they could use glyphs as long as a suitably powerful titan was near. In both the Harry Potter and Arcanum universes electricity does not mix with magic. In the HP universe the magic the robot would attempt to use would short out its power supply. In arcanum the presence of so much technology would render magic too weak to use. In fairy folk lore iron interferes with magic so any robot with iron it could potentially disrupt magic.

hmm

in Chrono Trigger, there is Robo, who uses "magic" that consists of laser and bomb type attacks, but reading about it the game specifically says he can't learn magic and those attacks don't count.

in Secret of Mana there are Kilroy and Kettle Kin, and while they don't have much magic, they can cast Lunar Boost (Kilroy) and Lucid Barrier (Kettle Kin).

I think there are probably too many examples in Final Fantasy to list. A huge part of the premise of FF6 is magic-infused machinery, and I'm pretty sure that includes some robots (Guardian is one example).

Because Robo was created after Lavos destroyed all the magic in the world.

I'm just reminded of the shadowrun explanation. Magic comes from the flesh. So the less you have the less magic you have. It was a balancing system in the lore so those who get cybered to the gills as they say can't be bad ass makes either. Unless you the Mc from the snes title. He was special

Cybertronians

Lokarin posted...

they have souls just as much as anyone

In most settings, they very much don't.



JOExHIGASHI posted...

Vision in mcu is powered by a magic stone

It's not magic, it's advanced science.

...yeah, that's an incredibly meaningless distinction, but they are supposed to be seen more as fundamental forces of the universe (like gravity) more than they're supposed to be seen as "magic". So they can all be used for purposes or in ways that magic can't.

But Marvel doesn't necessarily explain how magic works in their universe all that well anyway. So there's nothing really saying that robots can't use magic regardless. There used to be a distinction between "Personal", "Dimensional", and "Universal" type magics (and soulless robots would probably have trouble with "Personal" spells), but I don't think anyone at Marvel has cared about stuff like that for years now so nothing really matters.

Metalsonic66 posted...

Cybertronians

Yeah but they got The Touch

Yeah that's frequently where magic comes from vs. some outside force. I've been thinking a lot about soul and mind lately because of my story planning and it's just gotten me frustrated to find something simple that I'm happy with.

Soul has a lot of overlap with the mind minus the surviving death bit. We regard consciousness as the person in the body but that's how we think of soul too in the modern era, not just some animate supernatural force that makes things living. If the soul isn't consciousness then how does modern era reconcile and decide what's the person between the two?

Ya, it's just that it annoys me when a magic system basically comes down to 'umm, just think really hard'

Lokarin posted...

Ya, it's just that it annoys me when a magic system basically comes down to 'umm, just think really hard'

That's generally what you get with a "soft" system, where the writer doesn't really care about the mechanics because magic is a means to an end to tell a story, not an end in and of itself.

If you want "harder" magic systems, you should look into stuff like Brandon Sanderson's books, where it often feels like he cares more about how the magic works than he does about the story itself.



NeoSioType posted...

Soul has a lot of overlap with the mind minus the surviving death bit. We regard consciousness as the person in the body but that's how we think of soul too in the modern era, not just some animate supernatural force that makes things living. If the soul isn't consciousness then how does modern era reconcile and decide what's the person between the two?

It's arguably an extension of the difference between "mind" and "brain" in modern psychology (especially once you start bringing things like biochemistry into the mix). Where there's overlap but also differences.

If you want to really think about it in a complex way, look at how the ancient Egyptians used to break things down:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_conception_of_the_soul


And there's actually a more simplified version of that in this game/setting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mummy:_The_Resurrection


You might also want to look into how various other Eastern religions view the concept of the soul. For example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80tman_(Hinduism)


Essentially, while a lot of people (especially in the modern West) think of the "soul" as just being your personality/sense of identity, other cultures would argue that's more the function of your mind, while your soul is more of an animating force and that doesn't necessarily retain your "consciousness" or identity in the afterlife (ie, you're not YOU in Heaven, at least not as you currently exist). It's an aspect of your "higher self" that makes you what you are more than who you are.

Or to kind of sum all of that up, your soul isn't YOU, but it's the part of you that makes you special. And potentially the part of you that continues to exist beyond your physical death and death of the self - which might be why in religions that assume reincarnation occurs you're not reborn as the exact same person with the same memories and personality (which are more part of your "mind"), even if your soul does benefit from the fundamental lessons learned and karma gained/lost in any given life. In some sense then, your ego/mind would effectively be the resulting fusion of your soul impressing itself upon your physical body's neurochemistry. Three distinct aspects, all interconnected and interdependent.

(Or to put it all into a more Cognitive Psychology-based metaphor, if your "brain" is the computer hardware and your "mind" is the program you're running on it, then your "soul" is the person sitting at the keyboard manipulating it all.)

From that perspective your soul is your connection to the primordial forces of the universe, which is why it's key to manipulating reality via "magic" (and thus why any creature or creation without a soul would be unable to do so).

Then you'd also have to ask just what HAS a soul - most Western Judeo-Christian influenced philosophy would say that only humans have souls (so no, sorry, your dog doesn't go to Heaven), whereas Eastern philosophy tends to fall more on the side that all living things have some form of soul (and that they may transmigrate - so today's turtle might be tomorrow's king... or vice-versa).

Oh god someone woke up PO WoD opinions.

Also the dwarf robots from Elder Scrolls

I've always thought it's because magic is tied to consciousness, which is just a total mystery to people irl, and robots are said to have none or very little of it in most fiction.

We still have no metric separating a rock from a human in terms of "actually there", and from an outside perspective it doesn't actually exist, so it's like an irl magic. There's no scientific theory to describe it.

Because robots are lame

shadowsword87 posted...

Oh god someone woke up PO WoD opinions.

Hey, I didn't even bring up Mage and Avatars, in spite of that literally being my favorite game ever AND probably the one most related to magic and souls.

And then I could have started talking about stuff like the Consensus and the Universal Prime and Essences...

i wouldn't mind a story about the invention of magic... people dying cuz they mutate or explode in their laboratories trying to figure out the details

Magic is just math, and robots are bitchin' at math

Lokarin posted...

I mean, they have souls just as much as anyone if that's part of the deal...

And for systems with strict magical science behind them (like FMA, for the most part) they should be able to (and in FMA, they can)

How?

Revelation34 posted...

How?

just as much as anyone

Lokarin posted...

just as much as anyone

That's not really how it works, though.

Consciousness =/= soul.

And that's even before you get into the discussion of whether or not robots are actually conscious and free-willed or just programmed to present the illusion of such.

So... you want a realistic, down-to-earth show... that's completely off-the-wall and, swarming with magic robots?

trivialbeing posted...

So... you want a realistic, down-to-earth show... that's completely off-the-wall and, swarming with magic robots?

well, they were two separate thoughts

Lokarin posted...

well, they were two separate thoughts

he's quoting The Simpsons

https://twitter.com/Simpsons_tweets/status/1644816888919371776

oh, i missed that