Current Events > If a prophet came and performed literal miracles, would you believe in god then?

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80/80

If a prophet came in the coming years and either preformed miracles themselves or through God, would you believe in God?

The prophet is a Christian prophet, but not Jesus Christ in this scenario. The Prophet exclaims that Jesus/God will come at the end of the world, and the world isn't ending yet, along with other reasons. His miracles are real, and well documented in this scenario. It is also clear that they are, indeed, miracles.

Do you think this would be enough to get you to believe in god? If not, why?

No, only way I might believe in a god is if it contacted me directly. But even then I have a family history chock full of mental health issues so I couldn't entirely rule out me going a little schizo being the cause of that.

Yeah I guess that would be enough for me

Kai_Laguna posted...

No, only way I might believe in a god is if it contacted me directly. But even then I have a family history chock full of mental health issues so I couldn't entirely rule out me going a little schizo being the cause of that.

Can I ask why though?

Like would the miracles not be convincing enough by themselves or what?

Only after through medical and scientific examinations of the person rules out any other explanation for their abilities.

Kai_Laguna posted...

Only after through medical and scientific examinations of the person rules out any other explanation for their abilities.

Yeah this. People can be very smart with cons.

Kai_Laguna posted...

Only after through medical and scientific examinations of the person rules out any other explanation for their abilities.

What would that look like to you?

Also, what if the feats are otherwise very obviously not possible?

Like growing food or trees from a seed or sapling to full height in moments, curing vast swaths of cancer or other documented and deadly illnesses, healing cuts or other large injuries in the blink of an eye, and so on?

Even if the miracles are legit and the prophet is Christian, why would that mean there is a Christian god?

• Can the prophet be lying?
• Can the miracles be from another source (technology that is alien or yet undiscovered)?
• Can it be from another god? Or better yet the 'devil'?
• Why must the existence of miracles portend some higher power?

itachi15243 posted...

80/80

If a prophet came in the coming years and either preformed miracles themselves or through God, would you believe in God?

The prophet is a Christian prophet, but not Jesus Christ in this scenario. The Prophet exclaims that Jesus/God will come at the end of the world, and the world isn't ending yet, along with other reasons. His miracles are real, and well documented in this scenario. It is also clear that they are, indeed, miracles.

Do you think this would be enough to get you to believe in god? If not, why?

Maybe, depends on the prophet.

I mean, the guy is either a prophet with powers granted by god, or just some wizard who happens to be a religious nut.

If he looks mostly sane and not like a crazy church fanatic, I probably would believe it, otherwise I would probably accept his supernatural miracle power, but not his claim that it is a literal blessing of a truly existing god.

itachi15243 posted...

What would that look like to you?

Also, what if the feats are otherwise very obviously not possible?

Like growing food or trees from a seed or sapling to full height in moments, curing vast swaths of cancer or other documented and deadly illnesses, healing cuts or other large injuries in the blink of an eye, and so on?

pistachio12 posted...

Even if the miracles are legit and the prophet is Christian, why would that mean there is a Christian god?

* Can the prophet be lying?
* Can the miracles be from another source (technology that is alien or yet undiscovered)?
* Can it be from another god? Or better yet the 'devil'?
* Why must the existence of miracles portend some higher power?

Basically this, I need solid proof of where those capabilities come from. I already find it highly sus that the prophet is Christian rather then Jewish.

No, just Stands

If they can fool Penn and Teller, sure

I'd sooner suspect that there is another explanation. Either some kind of trick, advanced technology, or maybe the person has obtained super powers. In Invincible, there is a girl who can manipulate matter and she can make plants grow super fast among other things

Even if it is from a god, I'd not trust the god. My first thought would be that the god is up to some ulterior motive and could be a threat to the world

I already believe in God.
But ironically, I might've suspect this guy aa a false prophet.

i can find you tons of fake faith healers who use magician tricks to pretend to be performing miracles

gona need to see some real impressive shit for me to believe they have actual divine powers and even then id go checking what magicians are saying about it

and i already believe in god (just not church)

Christians would kill this dude so fast...

No. I might, however, be open to believing in magic of the young girl's soul.

Ability to do miracles doesn't mean their power comes from where they say it is.

Even if I had convincing evidence of god, belief =/= worship. That'll never happen.

For those who believe that this comes from someone else other than God, can you explain why, or what you'd need to convince you that it was God and that god was real? What it would take to convince you that it wasn't magic, the devil, or some other malicious entity trying to trick you?

itachi15243 posted...

For those who believe that this comes from someone else other than God, can you explain why, or what you'd need to convince you that it was God and that god was real? What it would take to convince you that it wasn't magic, the devil, or some other malicious entity trying to trick you?

like i said it could just be a magicans trick no magic at all

AceMos posted...

like i said it could just be a magicans trick no magic at all

What about a situation where there is no possible way for it to be any form of trick? Growing a small Grove of trees from nothing, instantly healing deep cuts or things like covid, regrowing entire limbs for those who lost them, curing things like autism and such other lifelong issues, and so on.

Documented cases of this too.

itachi15243 posted...

For those who believe that this comes from someone else other than God, can you explain why, or what you'd need to convince you that it was God and that god was real? What it would take to convince you that it wasn't magic, the devil, or some other malicious entity trying to trick you?

As I said, it's a matter of trust.

If I feel like I can trust this prophet I will believe his take.

If I feel like he is just a fundamental idiot, I won't.

It will definitly help if he doesn't preach 24/7, or is going against the conservative teachings here and there.

hey TC could you pls not push the BS idea of autism being something that needs to be cured

im autistic and i really hate when ppl say that

No, because watching someone do some act of magic in front of me will make me go through some sort of critical checklist like this:

1. Can I be sure that what I saw really happened and wasn't a magic trick or illusion of some kind. This is the most likely answer in every case. I have never seen a genuine miracle that could not be explained by something like this.
2. If the thing really happened, what might this say about our understanding of science? Because phenomena that can't be explained is more likely to be some aspect of discovery that we don't know rather than something mystical. This is a hard one to get past and I don't think ever has been.
3. If I was convinced that it was real and was mystical, what links this to a particular religion or dogma? Just because the miracle happened in front of me doesn't mean that the bible is correct and that priests are telling the truth.

AceMos posted...

hey TC could you pls not push the BS idea of autism being something that needs to be cured

im autistic and i really hate when ppl say that

My apologies, I had a bad feeling about adding that one in general. x.x

Go back 30 years and people would think a smart phone is a miracle. Most of us barely had shitty dial up back then. Fuck let's be real a smart phone still seems like a miracle I mean how the fuck does this thing work anyway? Ignorance on how something works is not good reason to start attributing things to a being whos existance would make just as little sense.

God isn't real so probably not.

itachi15243 posted...

Documented cases of this too.

Citation needed.

If magical powers exist, that would change my entire worldview.

pinky0926 posted...

Citation needed.

I meant healing well documented and known medical cases. Or other miracles that the prophet performed or performed through God being well documented in this scenario.

TC there faith healers who claim to heal the blind and give ppl the ability to walk

these are all 100% fake all of them are don by conartists

It would certainly make me think more in depth about it. There's still a possibility that he's a con man wizard. If he tells people that "God allows me to do this", it's a lot more palatable for people to believe and it doesn't give away the fact that kind of power is possible for others.

pistachio12 posted...

Even if the miracles are legit and the prophet is Christian, why would that mean there is a Christian god?

* Can the prophet be lying?
* Can the miracles be from another source (technology that is alien or yet undiscovered)?
* Can it be from another god? Or better yet the 'devil'?
* Why must the existence of miracles portend some higher power?

Huh?

AceMos posted...

TC there faith healers who claim to heal the blind and give ppl the ability to walk

these are all 100% fake all of them are don by conartists

The point of this question is them literally be not fakes made by conartists.

Karovorak posted...

The point of this question is them literally be not fakes made by conartists.

its a bad faith question that asks me to ignore facts of reality of ppl who legit scam ppl pretending to be profits

AceMos posted...

TC there faith healers who claim to heal the blind and give ppl the ability to walk

these are all 100% fake all of them are don by conartists

Again, in this scenario I'm talking about things that wouldn't be possible to fake like that. Regrowing entire limbs, growing trees and plants from nothing, altering the weather, so on. things like that, that can't be faked.

shiby_with_it posted...

It would certainly make me think more in depth about it. There's still a possibility that he's a con man wizard. If he tells people that "God allows me to do this", it's a lot more palatable for people to believe and it doesn't give away the fact that kind of power is possible for others.

So what do you think would sway you to believe him to be working for God rather than either being a wizard or working for some evil power like some had suggested earlier?

What if he purely preached religious teachings with no bias towards politics and accepted little or even no money for the things he did?

AceMos posted...

its a bad faith question that asks me to ignore facts of reality of ppl who legit scam ppl pretending to be profits

How is a simple thought experiment automatically a bad faith question?

The scenario is simple.

Some guy does real miracles we can't explain, and claims he got the power from god and goes on preaching.

How do you deal with this? Do you believe in him and his god, do you believe his supernatural power but not his god, or do you suspect some secret alien hightech following the normal laws of nature but just out of our current understanding.

Maybe you can find another way out of that, but "there were enough scammers already" ignores the whole question.

Poorly posted...

Huh?

Articulate?

itachi15243 posted...

What it would take to convince you that it wasn't magic, the devil, or some other malicious entity trying to trick you?

I don't think there is anything that could be done except that prophet somehow directly showing me said god and having that god explain they're the Christian god. I'd also have to trust what I saw as well.

itachi15243 posted...

So what do you think would sway you to believe him to be working for God

I could believe that he believes he's working for God. And he'd need to justify that belief, because I'm not going to accept "Well, I feel pretty confident that it's him who's the source of my power."

I mean....I guess come back to me when any of this stuff actually happens and we'll see I guess though I doubt it.

I mean, let's say I literally watched someone's arm grow back.... All that tells me is that that person's arm grew back. How could I prove a god did it?

And, even if I'm convinced it's a god that did it, it doesn't tell me which god or if any religions are true, it just tells me that there's a supremely powerful being that can heal people but chooses not to most of the time except every few thousand years apparently so fuck em anyway.

Ultimately, I don't really know what would convince me of a god existing but if one does exist and it's all knowing then it would know what it takes to convince me and since it hasn't I'll either presume it doesn't want me to know or that it just doesn't exist.

pistachio12 posted...

Articulate?

I don't eat artichoke

Poorly posted...

I don't eat artichoke

Ah I see a troll.

Hmm, maybe. Depends on the miracle I guess.

pistachio12 posted...

Ah I see a troll.

I don't see the need to entertain ur kind of people.

Bump for late day CE

No.

Need more than just my shoddy witness account.

that could be any god or demon or alien or w/e. i aint gonna worship anyone for having magic powers.

I already believe in God so it would just be fulfilling Jesus' words at Matthew 24:24 For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even Gods chosen ones

It'd certainly help. Modern times are too far divorced from biblical times, the time of miracles, for religion to survive. Something needs to happen to keep things fresh and even somewhat credible. If it's real at all.

Thewinner14 posted...

I already believe in God so it would just be fulfilling Jesus' words at Matthew 24:24 For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even Gods chosen ones

Well that's convenient. If someone ever does do an actual miracle nowadays it's... False or misleading? Lame.