Current Events > Do you have any opinions on the Touhou games?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I stopped paying much attention to them years ago but I thought 8, 10, 11 and 12 were great. UFO was pretty crazy but I could 1cc the other 3 on hard.

It was always difficult to talk about the games because way too often you'd bring it up and they'd go "Oh I don't play the games, I just know a few of the characters, songs and fan works." almost immediately. That became the norm.

There are too many spin offs

Quite enjoyed Luna Nights, couldn't get into the others.

I suck at them and haven't played since the Cirno spinoff after 12. What number are they on now?

1cced all the games and their extra, except the PC-98 games which I used save states for their Extras, but then got stuck on PoFV which I had trouble beating even with Cheat Engine slowdown so after several attempts I moved onto other franchises. Also IAMP is incredibly hard on keyboard and Cheat Engine doesn't work on it. Still have to play 18. I heard the next game is going to be another Phantasgmoria, which is cool character and music wise but I'm terrible at these.

I played a few a long time ago and couldn't beat Flandre so they're shit.

Bass posted...

I suck at them and haven't played since the Cirno spinoff after 12. What number are they on now?

19 I believe.
I quit after 15 was kinda meh and then 16 had the same boring character as the final boss and extra boss. Oh and the Undertale people showed up and that was the point of no return.

No shame in getting destroyed by 12.8 by the way. He deliberately made the spinoffs more difficult with the assumption people playing them would already have played mainline games.

TheDurinator posted...

I played a few a long time ago and couldn't beat Flandre so they're shit.

6 not letting you see your hitbox drags it way down for me. Imperishable Night's kind of similar but with a bunch of QoL changes that make it one of the best in the series.

Touhou project games?
Their shooters are really good, particularly for the price.

You know what I never got by the way?
There's a bunch of people who have Perfect Cherry Blossom high up on their ranking.

I don't get that. Game just feels slow. Stage 4 is slow and repetitive and the boss is a slog, stage 5 is slow and the boss is an even worse slog. That's enough to ruin it for me.

unpopular opinion, but bullet hell games where the "skill" is memorizing the exact pixels you need to be on to avoid a screen of one-hit-kill bullets aren't fun. I'll take a thousand Ikarugas, or Radiant Silverguns, or R-Types that have unique mechanics that fundamentally alter play over yet another generic bullet hell whose entire gimmick is having a fanbase of "thousand year old loli" lovers.

s0nicfan posted...

unpopular opinion, but bullet hell games where the "skill" is memorizing the exact pixels you need to be on to avoid a screen of one-hit-kill bullets aren't fun. I'll take a thousand Ikarugas, or Radiant Silverguns, or R-Types that have unique mechanics that fundamentally alter play over yet another generic bullet hell whose entire gimmick is having a fanbase of "thousand year old loli" lovers.

Most of the Bullet Hell games I have have a unique mechanic of some kind.

s0nicfan posted...

unpopular opinion, but bullet hell games where the "skill" is memorizing the exact pixels you need to be on to avoid a screen of one-hit-kill bullets aren't fun. I'll take a thousand Ikarugas, or Radiant Silverguns, or R-Types that have unique mechanics that fundamentally alter play over yet another generic bullet hell whose entire gimmick is having a fanbase of "thousand year old loli" lovers.

But Ikaruga, Radiant Silvergun and R-type are wayyy more memorisation-heavy than almost any touhou game, and all also have one-hit kills. Have you actually played any of the games you're talking about?

Had a touhou phase awhile back, when 12 (UFO) was the latest game. I've normal 1cc'd 6-12, haven't played many of the newer games though (but I did like 15, Clownpiece is great).

ViewtifulJoe posted...

You know what I never got by the way?
There's a bunch of people who have Perfect Cherry Blossom high up on their ranking.

I don't get that. Game just feels slow. Stage 4 is slow and repetitive and the boss is a slog, stage 5 is slow and the boss is an even worse slog. That's enough to ruin it for me.

If you started at 6 like I did, then PCB is a notable step up in some ways. First windows game to display your hitbox, first game Sakuya was playable in, and I think the OST is pretty great. Also introduced some noteworthy characters like the ghosts (Yuyuko and Youmu) as well as the entire Yakumo clan. Alice's return from pc98 is cool.

As a whole I like the Scarlet Devil cast and level design more than PCB, but I think 7 is more fun to play.

Great games but some of them are just too exhausting with their difficulty

The harder difficulties look absolutely ridiculous, but the games have good music and gave us great things like Cafe de Touhou and IOSYS
https://youtu.be/Qd35dlm1fIg
https://youtu.be/Kc8GNaED3Ok

s0nicfan posted...

where the "skill" is memorizing the exact pixels you need to be on to avoid a screen of one-hit-kill bullets aren't fun.

You word it like the games give you one character and every spell card is static.
There's more moving parts than that.

Some of the spells are random, pretty much all the games come with different shot types and bombs. Some games have exploits. The spinoffs have you wiping bullets with pictures or freeze attacks. Plus it's one thing to have an idea of how to deal with a lunatic difficulty spell card and another to actually do it.

PCB/7 has the best Extra (+ Phantasm) of the 6-8 trilogy.

Also stage 5 isn't slow, what. If Youmu was any faster, it'd be like 11/SA-tier levels of hard.

it's cool but not for me, i'd play non-bullet hell touhou more if they were decent

Eab1990 posted...

PCB/7 has the best Extra (+ Phantasm) of the 6-8 trilogy.

Also stage 5 isn't slow, what. If Youmu was any faster, it'd be like 11/SA-tier levels of hard.

I'm down for that, less of that same big green/yellow bullet attack, less literal slow motion. Orin in 11 showed up a bunch of times and was pretty challenging but at least she had some move variety.

I like 8's extra a lot more than 7's. 8's is really comfy. They give you 4 teams/8 individual characters so even though it's set difficulty you can adjust it that way.

I'm interested in dipping a toe into the Touhou universe to see what it's like, though the main games don't really interest me since I'm not into purely bullet-hell games. Though I still do want to have the bullet-hell aspect in the first game I play since that's still a major part of the series, so I have New World on my Steam wishlist for me to get around to buying eventully and have that be my first Touhou game since that one is grabbing me more.

Purestarfall posted...

I'm interested in dipping a toe into the Touhou universe to see what it's like, though the main games don't really interest me since I'm not into purely bullet-hell games. Though I still do want to have the bullet-hell aspect in the first game I play since that's still a major part of the series, so I have New World on my Steam wishlist for me to get around to buying eventully and have that be my first Touhou game since that one is grabbing me more.

I feel like the bullet hells, particularly the patterns that ZUN makes are kind of the soul of the series imo. I like the characters and remixes and all but I can only get into the ones that ZUN has officially made. If you're not aware, games like Luna Nights and New World are pure fangames with no involvement by him. They are definitely much more accessible, in much more familiar genres, than bullet hells though and they do still serve as a decent introduction to the series and usually primarily uses remixes of the main game soundtracks.

touhou 6 was my jam. Loved that game and barely played the others.

I actually started with the fighting games and lemme tell you, they have some of the smoothest controls I've ever experienced for a fighter. Hisoutensoku is legit a top 10 in the genre lol

the music and community are also really great

Too many hentais of it.
Well not in the recent years, but a decade ago it was.

I've never played one.

Needs more eurobeat? Or celtic whatever this is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAJFT0DS84Y

But the fans deliver what ever so it is fine.

...Still needs more eurobeat and more racing stuff. Initial T I say.

ViewtifulJoe posted...

You know what I never got by the way?
There's a bunch of people who have Perfect Cherry Blossom high up on their ranking.

I don't get that. Game just feels slow. Stage 4 is slow and repetitive and the boss is a slog, stage 5 is slow and the boss is an even worse slog. That's enough to ruin it for me.

Yeah, I never understood the love for PCB. Lame story, characters & dialogue (like the only ones people even care about are Yukiko & Youmu and even thier exchanges aren't too memorable) uninteresting patterns and annoying stages with all the invisible enemies sniping at you. I hate the spastic bosses that move all over the place, forcing me to play Sakura A, I hate that Youmu feels like a two bit knock off of Sakura with the whole "za-worldo" gimick. Heck, even the music is full Zun trumpet to the point of parody and outside of a few songs, is a weak entry for him. And if that isn't bad enough, it is preceded by 6 and proceeded by 8, two of the best entries. Just not great

I've played 6 and a little of 7. Pretty fun, but hard as hell. Had some epic music though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jJZA-O_B78

haven't been interested in a single mainline game
the spinoffs are weirdly expensive (that puzzle bobble clone has a criminal price in top of all that dlc)

s0nicfan posted...

unpopular opinion, but bullet hell games where the "skill" is memorizing the exact pixels you need to be on to avoid a screen of one-hit-kill bullets aren't fun. I'll take a thousand Ikarugas, or Radiant Silverguns, or R-Types that have unique mechanics that fundamentally alter play over yet another generic bullet hell whose entire gimmick is having a fanbase of "thousand year old loli" lovers.

Missed this post, and you're full of shit, lol.

My brother can 1cc all those games from simple daily repetition, but struggles to beat any Touhou outside of easy mode. I'm the reverse, where I can 1cc normal/hard for most of the Touhous before 11 or 12, and extra 6-8, but the extra modes in particular took me months of practice.

DragonClaw01 posted...

Yeah, I never understood the love for PCB. Lame story, characters & dialogue (like the only ones people even care about are Yukiko & Youmu and even thier exchanges aren't too memorable) uninteresting patterns and annoying stages with all the invisible enemies sniping at you. I hate the spastic bosses that move all over the place, forcing me to play Sakura A, I hate that Youmu feels like a two bit knock off of Sakura with the whole "za-worldo" gimick. Heck, even the music is full Zun trumpet to the point of parody and outside of a few songs, is a weak entry for him. And if that isn't bad enough, it is preceded by 6 and proceeded by 8, two of the best entries. Just not great

I think you need to brush up on the names. The only one you got right is Youmu.

I'm not sure if you're talking about Yuyuko or Yukari, and Sakura is Sakuya.

I haven't played since TH15 but I do just generally enjoy the games and the music and etc etc

favourites are TH8 (because spell card practice is so good why did they remove it again afterwards) and the photo games

too hard for my noob ass

DragonClaw01 posted...

Yeah, I never understood the love for PCB. Lame story, characters & dialogue (like the only ones people even care about are Yukiko & Youmu and even thier exchanges aren't too memorable) uninteresting patterns and annoying stages with all the invisible enemies sniping at you. I hate the spastic bosses that move all over the place, forcing me to play Sakura A, I hate that Youmu feels like a two bit knock off of Sakura with the whole "za-worldo" gimick. Heck, even the music is full Zun trumpet to the point of parody and outside of a few songs, is a weak entry for him. And if that isn't bad enough, it is preceded by 6 and proceeded by 8, two of the best entries. Just not great

I think it's because PCB was the start of the mechanics being standarized. EoSD was the beginning of the reboot but it was a bit of a clunky start. EoSD didn't have visible hitboxes, its bullets are a bit weirder than the future games, no spell practice, it doesn't show the line where items are auto-collected, its way of getting 1-ups was by reaching score thresholds that aren't visible to the player while PCB has visible ways to get 1-ups like almost all subsequent games, requires v-sync patch or otherwise the game runs at 1000 fps etc. PCB is the game that sets the standard for all the future games.
Also its cherry mechanic is apparently really enjoyable for scorerunners but I'm not a scorerunner so I wouldn't know. I do personally think its music is high tier though.

Things like spell practice & not needing the v-sync patch started in 8, not 7. 7 still has the poor early Zun art as well. So overall, not too much of a step up from 6 in terms of mechanics. Even the non visible hitbox isn't much of a problem most of the time in 6. It is roughly the size and location of the bow ties of the characters & looking at your hitbox all the time tends to be bad play. It is hard to react to bullets if you are hyper fixated on the hitbox. A ton of shmups don't show hitboxes & you get used to it.

DragonClaw01 posted...

Things like spell practice & not needing the v-sync patch started in 8, not 7. 7 still has the poor early Zun art as well. So overall, not too much of a step up from 6 in terms of mechanics. Even the non visible hitbox isn't much of a problem most of the time in 6. It is roughly the size and location of the bow ties of the characters & looking at your hitbox all the time tends to be bad play. It is hard to react to bullets if you are hyper fixated on the hitbox. A ton of shmups don't show hitboxes & you get used to it.

Oh whoops, I guess that's what happens when I used the practice patch tool to practice the Extra/Phantasm spellcards for the games that didn't have it. I do know you don't need Vsync for 7 though and that it was much easier to get thpatch to work with 7 than 6 where I had to mess around with my computer's locale and stuff.

8 had spell practice and then it was gone again until 13 for some reason

DragonClaw01 posted...

Yeah, I never understood the love for PCB. Lame story, characters & dialogue (like the only ones people even care about are Yukiko & Youmu and even thier exchanges aren't too memorable) uninteresting patterns and annoying stages with all the invisible enemies sniping at you. I hate the spastic bosses that move all over the place, forcing me to play Sakura A, I hate that Youmu feels like a two bit knock off of Sakura with the whole "za-worldo" gimick. Heck, even the music is full Zun trumpet to the point of parody and outside of a few songs, is a weak entry for him. And if that isn't bad enough, it is preceded by 6 and proceeded by 8, two of the best entries. Just not great

I mostly like PCB for nostalgia purposes given that it was the first touhou game I played.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Interesting, there's a few other Touhou music similarities out there, like the final boss theme of Night Striker sounding a lot like Native Faith:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqfoG3gz2q8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM3vORHcysw

Given Night Striker was a Taito game, and ZUN has always been a massive Taito fan (even working for Taito as a programmer for quite a long time), this resemblance is likely more intentional.

It's hard to keep track of them, but most of them are pretty fun for the most part.

Shooters are my favorite genre, but Touhou bullet patterns are too patterny for my tastes.

Almost every Touhou fan I know loves the characters and music, but never touches the games, outside of like, fighting game spinoffs.

So i really dont know what kind of series it is. I thought it was an indie shmup.

They are decent SHMUPS but pretty mid compared to the GOATs.

_____Cait posted...

So i really dont know what kind of series it is. I thought it was an indie shmup.

you're mostly right I guess? it's an indie shump with a few official spinoffs in other genres (fighting games) and a bazillion fangames in every sort of genre imaginable

_____Cait posted...

Almost every Touhou fan I know loves the characters and music, but never touches the games, outside of like, fighting game spinoffs.

So i really dont know what kind of series it is. I thought it was an indie shmup.

Arcade shmups are a very niche genre even among hardcore gamers, yeah. But I do know quite a few people will watch vids of it even if they don't play it themselves.
Speaking of the gameplay, anyone here intentionally try to catch spellcards? I usually use my bombs on stage enemies instead of trying to power through them so that I can try my best on the spellcards without the temptation of bombing or losing bombs if I fail. This makes TH10-11's bomb mechanics very annoying to me of course.

I tried to play Perfect Cherry Blossom and Imperishable night like 13 years ago. I couldn't get into them despite trying. Never really explored the other media related to the series.