Current Events > Woman aborts baby at 23 weeks get sent to jail.

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cjsdowg
07/21/23 10:30:06 PM
#1:


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Zikten
07/21/23 10:33:59 PM
#2:


Pro choice but I think there should be some cutoff. Not sure exactly where. I guess whenever there is brain activity. Republicans are obsessed with heartbeat. I care about the brain
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thronedfire2
07/21/23 10:36:07 PM
#3:


pretty sure the burning and burying is the part that got her not the abortion

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DrizztLink
07/21/23 10:36:49 PM
#4:


oh look it's exactly what everyone said would happen if you overturned RvW

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kelemvor
07/21/23 10:36:51 PM
#5:


Zikten posted...
Pro choice but I think there should be some cutoff. Not sure exactly where. I guess whenever there is brain activity. Republicans are obsessed with heartbeat. I care about the brain

As someone who has had my Wife have a premature baby, I think the cutoff should be when the baby is old enough in the womb to feel pain, move around, and be a viable birth at any moment, which is the third trimester. It should be noted that something like 99% (I'm not going to look it up) of abortions are in the 1st trimester, so that should be legal. The fetus is just a bunch of cells at that point.
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Doe
07/21/23 10:39:07 PM
#6:


Would this have happened if Nebraska didn't make access to sensible reproductive care difficult?

And the woman was at most 17 when she got pregnant. And the 23 weeks figure is asserted by the state, not the family.

She gets my benefit of the doubt because red states don't approach the issue in good faith. And I think it's problematic to define 'abortion cutoffs' in terms of fetal gestation with no regard to the woman's health.

pretty sure the burning and burying is the part that got her not the abortion
Don't think they could be charged with mishandling of a dead body if the state didn't define life at conception/heartbeat/etc.

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Phoro
07/21/23 10:39:35 PM
#7:


Does Nebraska allow abortion? Did she try to get one thru legitimate avenues and then get turned away?

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CyricZ
07/21/23 10:39:39 PM
#8:


It's quite simple.

Abortion available on demand, no restrictions.

If the abortion is too risky for the health of the mother, the attending physician has the right to refuse.

Saying "there should be a cutoff" is putting the law in charge of a woman's bodily autonomy.

And these cutoffs are always arbitrary.

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CyricZ
07/21/23 10:41:22 PM
#9:


Phoro posted...
Does Nebraska allow abortion?
It was 20 weeks at the time. It's 12 weeks now.

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A_Good_Boy
07/21/23 10:41:51 PM
#10:


DrizztLink posted...
oh look it's exactly what everyone said would happen if you overturned RvW

It seems like this is a different act entirely.

At the time Celeste Burgess terminated her pregnancy, abortion was legal up to 20 weeks gestation in Nebraska.

Now, after a Supreme Court ruling overturned Roe v Wade, abortion is illegal after 12 weeks gestation in Nebraska.

Prosecutors did not charge Celeste Burgess under the new abortion law. She was charged instead with concealing or abandoning a dead body.

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#11
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DrizztLink
07/21/23 10:43:01 PM
#12:


A_Good_Boy posted...
It seems like this is a different act entirely.

A_Good_Boy posted...
Now, after a Supreme Court ruling overturned Roe v Wade, abortion is illegal after 12 weeks gestation in Nebraska.
I don't particularly give a shit what they're charging her with, that right there is where you should have stopped and realized it's bullshit.

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Doe
07/21/23 10:43:26 PM
#13:


CyricZ posted...
It was 20 weeks at the time
Yeah see the fact the state is asserting a couple weeks past the deadline based on their 'investigation' is red flags. The fact is the people in those positions of power despise women getting abortions, they don't care she's 17 or what happened to her, they just want to hurt her.

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voldothegr8
07/21/23 10:43:36 PM
#14:


thronedfire2 posted...
pretty sure the burning and burying is the part that got her not the abortion
Abortion bans don't stop abortions, only safe access to abortions.

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A_Good_Boy
07/21/23 10:44:18 PM
#15:


DrizztLink posted...
I don't particularly give a shit what they're charging her with, that right there is where you should have stopped and realized it's bullshit.
But that doesn't have anything to do with this particular case, and she wasn't charged with breaking that new law. So it has nothing to do with anything unless time travel is involved.

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ArsGoetia
07/21/23 10:44:21 PM
#16:


DrizztLink posted...
oh look it's exactly what everyone said would happen if you overturned RvW

this happened before roe vs wade was overturned
no doctor would have approved a 23 week abortion regardless and it wouldnt have passed an ethics committee in most healthcare institutions either
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CyricZ
07/21/23 10:44:23 PM
#17:


A_Good_Boy posted...
It seems like this is a different act entirely.
The question remains would she have committed the crime she did if she had access to legal abortion care.

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DrizztLink
07/21/23 10:45:06 PM
#18:


voldothegr8 posted...
Abortion bans don't stop abortions, only safe access to abortions.
"we aren't charging her for abortion, just the concomitant 'crimes' that never would have happened if we weren't such a MAGAt shithole"

Such a clever defense.

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DrizztLink
07/21/23 10:49:09 PM
#19:


"At the time Celeste Burgess terminated her pregnancy, abortion was legal up to 20 weeks gestation in Nebraska"

Alright, my mistake.

Replace everything above I said involving RvW to be about this shit law.

Which is largely irrelevant since the law is even more idiotic now, but here we are.

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A_Good_Boy
07/21/23 10:49:33 PM
#20:


CyricZ posted...
The question remains would she have committed the crime she did if she had access to legal abortion care.
This was before Roe v Wade was overturned, and it doesn't seem as if the CARE Clinic is too far from Madison County.

Buy I'm not the girl or her mother, and I don't know what stopped her from going to a clinic before 23 weeks or why they suddenly opted for abortion pills so late in the pregnancy.

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_Krave_
07/21/23 10:49:47 PM
#21:


So she killed her baby and only got 3 months in jail.

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CyricZ
07/21/23 10:57:21 PM
#22:


Well that's an easy tag.

A_Good_Boy posted...
This was before Roe v Wade was overturned, and it doesn't seem as if the CARE Clinic is too far from Madison County.

Buy I'm not the girl or her mother, and I don't know what stopped her from going to a clinic before 23 weeks or why they suddenly opted for abortion pills so late in the pregnancy.
Exactly. There's a lot we're not being told about this case.

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cjsdowg
07/21/23 10:59:07 PM
#23:


So for you guys saying no limits , it is 8.5 months. Still kill it ?

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indica
07/21/23 11:00:06 PM
#24:


cjsdowg posted...
So for you guys saying no limits , it is 8.5 months. Still kill it ?
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/0/0/AAAPJWAAD6OE.jpg

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CyricZ
07/21/23 11:00:57 PM
#25:


cjsdowg posted...
So for you guys saying no limits , it is 8.5 months. Still kill it ?
23 weeks is not 8.5 months.

Creating a scenario as a gotcha is not a win here.

The ideal is that the law does not have a say in the matter. It's a medical procedure between a doctor and their patient, and the doctor has the right to refuse.

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CyricZ
07/21/23 11:03:00 PM
#27:


--Zero- posted...
Do we know if its her states laws that made her scared to lose the baby and when she did it made her even more scared she would get caught so she buried it afterwards?
We only know what the articles are telling us.

And from a lot of that, only what the police are reporting.

But to answer your question, no.

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A_Good_Boy
07/21/23 11:03:44 PM
#28:


https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/20/us/nebraska-teen-abortion-celeste-burgess/index.html

This CNN article puts it at 28 weeks

Authorities alleged Celeste Burgess had a medication abortion, and that it violated the states prohibition of abortion after 20 weeks. Celeste Burgess was around 28 weeks pregnant when her pregnancy ended, court documents allege.


CyricZ posted...
Exactly. There's a lot we're not being told about this case
I'm curious what the motive is really. My small search hasn't come up with anything yet.

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ScazarMeltex
07/21/23 11:04:43 PM
#29:


Zikten posted...
Pro choice but I think there should be some cutoff. Not sure exactly where. I guess whenever there is brain activity. Republicans are obsessed with heartbeat. I care about the brain
At 24 weeks ECG activity is consistent but the brain can't send information down pathways because those pathways don't exist yet. At 28 weeks the thalamocortical and corticothalamic pathways that transmit sensorimotor information begin to form. At 32 weeks the brain can control respiration. If you want to draw a line at least there it's not arbitrary.

To me though, any cutoff denies the bodily autonomy of the person carrying the baby, reducing them to nothing but an incubator.

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--Zero-
07/21/23 11:04:56 PM
#30:


CyricZ posted...
We only know what the articles are telling us.

And from a lot of that, only what the police are reporting.

But to answer your question, no.

I deleted the message cause I read another comment said this was before the roe vs wade issue. This is such an unfortunate situation either way.


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Starks
07/21/23 11:06:59 PM
#31:


That's way too late to do an elective backyard abortion.

Shouldn't be the business of the state though.

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pedro45
07/21/23 11:07:01 PM
#32:


cjsdowg posted...
So for you guys saying no limits , it is 8.5 months. Still kill it ?
Your math skills are lacking. There's 4 weeks in a month.

Also, is everyone glossing over the stillborn part?

I imagine it was an uncomfortable situation and decision she had made.

The whole concealing a dead body thing is interesting. Maybe she didn't know the abortion laws and really didn't wanna risk it, completely unsure of the roe v wade timing.

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indica
07/21/23 11:07:30 PM
#33:


ScazarMeltex posted...
To me though, any cutoff denies the bodily autonomy of the person carrying the baby, reducing them to nothing but an incubator.


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A_Good_Boy
07/21/23 11:16:53 PM
#34:


https://www.courthousenews.com/horrible-facts-experts-weigh-in-on-case-of-woman-charged-with-burying-body-after-late-term-abortion/

Found a much better article

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CyricZ
07/21/23 11:20:22 PM
#35:


That other article doesn't tell us that much more. Certainly doesn't go into the motive, which is what people have been discussing here in the topic.

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A_Good_Boy
07/21/23 11:25:52 PM
#36:


CyricZ posted...
That other article doesn't tell us that much more. Certainly doesn't go into the motive, which is what people have been discussing here in the topic.
It doesn't but it's the best one I've found so far. So unless someone looks at the actual records from the court for this case the I don't think we're going to find much better.

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cjsdowg
07/21/23 11:26:43 PM
#37:


CyricZ posted...


Creating a scenario as a gotcha is not a win here.

Your math skills are lacking. There's 4 weeks in a month.

This isn't about this case , a number of people have stated that there should be no cut off at all. Like I clearly indicated that is who I was talking to in that post.


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pedro45
07/21/23 11:30:24 PM
#38:


ScazarMeltex posted...

To me though, any cutoff denies the bodily autonomy of the person carrying the baby, reducing them to nothing but an incubator.


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AnsestralRecall
07/22/23 12:26:08 AM
#39:


Usual suspects itt displaying their asses
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WalkingLobsters
07/22/23 12:35:38 AM
#40:


I agree with no limit. But I have a better question. Why would a woman wait 4.5 months to make up her mind, let alone 8?

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A_Good_Boy
07/22/23 12:41:11 AM
#41:


WalkingLobsters posted...
I agree with no limit. But I have a better question. Why would a woman wait 4.5 months to make up her mind, let alone 8?
Cause she was 17. She was a baby about to have a baby.

I think the bigger question is if the mother was capable of providing her with the abortion drugs when she was 20+ weeks pregnant then why didn't she help her any sooner?

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ArsGoetia
07/22/23 12:47:36 AM
#42:


A_Good_Boy posted...
Cause she was 17. She was a baby about to have a baby.

I think the bigger question is if the mother was capable of providing her with the abortion drugs when she was 20+ weeks pregnant then why didn't she help her any sooner?

mom prolly didnt know and kid prolly was scared to say anything
pregnancy is terrifying at any age, let alone 17
girl from the town over did kind of the same thing as girl in OP
said her baby was stillborn and immolated the body and buried it in the backyard
only difference was she didnt tell anyone she was pregnant
prosecutors argued that she was trying to protect her image as a cheerleader and college prospects
she was found not guilty of murder/manslaughter but got sentenced for crimes related to the corpse iirc

i would say girl in OP was afraid to tell her parents
and when she did, mom decided to take matters into her own hands since law wouldnt allow it
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Unknown5uspect
07/22/23 12:48:33 AM
#43:


WalkingLobsters posted...
I agree with no limit. But I have a better question. Why would a woman wait 4.5 months to make up her mind, let alone 8?
I'm of the opinion that the answer to that question isn't anyone's business.

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A_Good_Boy
07/22/23 12:55:49 AM
#44:


ArsGoetia posted...
i would say girl in OP was afraid to tell her parents
and when she did, mom decided to take matters into her own hands since law wouldnt allow it
Yet another reminder to always make an effort to talk to your kids.

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WalkingLobsters
07/22/23 1:01:08 AM
#45:


Unknown5uspect posted...
I'm of the opinion that the answer to that question isn't anyone's business.
I just want to know because I want to understand how often that scenario happens. Like in magnitude should we care as much if so fewer women are doing it?

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