Current Events > The Flash is projected to become one of the biggest box office bombs of all time

(+) Yeah! (+)

Time travel is a very hit-and-miss concept

On one hand - the Snyderverse was trash, the way DC milks Flashpoint is embarrassing and this movie should have existed before Justice League, not after it. This is the result of a domino reaction starting with DC announcing a cinematic universe without intending to put the time or effort into creating a proper foundation for that endeavour, and it's on their head for chasing a trend without even bothering to think about what emulating that trend would take in the first place. This entire DCAU or whatever the fuck has been a clusterfuck and they're reaping what they sowed.

On the other hand, I at least want to see what James Gunn's vision is going to be. Specifically, I want to see his take on Superman. He can't do any worse than Zack Snyder's depiction of what can only be described as "the first post-9/11 depiction of Superman ever" and getting CG Russell Crowe to jump on a pterodactyl in a brown and grey cyclone so he can digitise a stamp into his baby. Gunn's take on superheroes seems to go beyond "in my movies, Batman could get raped in prison".

But with The Flash flopping that hard - what if WB-Discovery shelves the superhero movies entirely?

SuperShake666 posted...

Fuck new WB sideways with a rusty rake.

I'm completely on your side but what is it with the random internet people that talk this way?

"Fuck them with a rusty rake!"

"Go pound sand!"

Where are you people from and why do you talk so weirdly? Are you from the land of Dr. Suess or something?

This basically killed any future plans for people giving The Flash a big screen adaptation and forever ruined public reception of the character.

Expect execs to play it safe with a lot more Batman movies now.

MrMallard posted...

But with The Flash flopping that hard - what if WB-Discovery shelves the superhero movies entirely?

Nah The Batman and Joker did well.

There will be a lot riding on Gunn's Superman though. Doubt we'll see another Flash movie for at least decades either. We still haven't seen a new Green Lantern.

Ezra Miller's career is done and I'm sure director Andy Muschietti is now on thin ice.

Don't see how you could make Superman interesting without putting Bizarro or Lobo in your flic.

Gunn made Guardians of the Galaxy popular and made Peacemaker likeable. Superman should be easy in comparison.

The_shibe posted...

fuck Gunn.

He really did Cavil dirty. And what's worse, he used the "We want a younger superman" excuse. So, a kid superman? No. A Superman is his 20s? No. Turns out "I want a younger superman" simply meant "I don't want Cavil", because, reasons.

Cavil was one of the few rescuable things of the current DCU

Its funny because all the superman movies he was in weren't very good but everybody missed him once they said he wouldnt be superman anymore.

SuperShake666 posted...

Good. Fuck Ezra Miller and new WB.

Snyder fan?

Meh, the DCU is just a classic case of we want some of that pie, even though theres no pie left but goddamn we just cant accept it.

WB should join that club alongside EA, who similarly cant quite accept they will never have Call of Duty no matter how many knockoffs they make.

FLAMING_EVIL_HOMER posted...

Its funny because all the superman movies he was in weren't very good but everybody missed him once they said he wouldnt be superman anymore.

I liken Cavill as Superman to Pierce Brosnan as Bond. He was good. but he was given mostly shit to work with.

K181 posted...

I liken Cavill as Superman to Pierce Brosnan as Bond. He was good. but he was given mostly shit to work with.

I can agree with that. Liked him as the character but man the movies were bad

Punished_Blinx posted...

Gunn made Guardians of the Galaxy popular and made Peacemaker likeable. Superman should be easy in comparison.

Eh, this could actually work against him. Gunn's at his best when he's taking weird, niche characters and giving them personality and gravitas far beyond what you'd expect out of them; next to nobody had any preconceptions about how a talking raccoon or a polka-dot man 'should' act, so Gunn was more easily able to mold them into something of his own imagining. On the other hand, everyone on the planet has, at least to some degree, a preconceived expectation of what Superman 'should' be. Not saying Gunn won't be able to pull it off, far from it; but it's definitely going to be a challenge for him.

masterpug53 posted...

Eh, this could actually work against him. Gunn's at his best when he's taking weird, niche characters and giving them personality and gravitas far beyond what you'd expect out of them; next to nobody had any preconceptions about how a talking raccoon or a polka-dot man 'should' act, so Gunn was more easily able to mold them into something of his own imagining. On the other hand, everyone on the planet has, at least to some degree, a preconceived expectation of what Superman 'should' be. Not saying Gunn won't be able to pull it off, far from it; but it's definitely going to be a challenge for him.

True, but I also think the big thing Superman has been missing from the movies is the one thing James Gunn absolutely excels at.

He's VERY good at conveying human emotion and genuine sincerity when it comes to his characters. Less talented filmmakers would make goofy characters like Rocket and Polka-Dot Man pure comic relief, but instead he makes them fully-fleshed out characters that you take just as seriously, if not more seriously, than anyone on the team.

A lot of writers have fallen into the trap of trying to turn Superman into some god-alien man instead of trying to humanize him, but that's the one thing James Gunn would definitely not do with his version of Superman.

Plus I think he understands that people are waiting for a more traditional-style Superman and I think the casting of David Corenswet shows that.

FLAMING_EVIL_HOMER posted...

Its funny because all the superman movies he was in weren't very good but everybody missed him once they said he wouldnt be superman anymore.

Because you could watch Henry Cavill in real life interviews and feel like you're looking at Superman, but then you would go see him in the theaters and you'd have some bitter murderbot instead. It was the wasted opportunity that people hate more than anything.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

production includes all expenses leading up to and during the initial theatre release including marketing

If it included marketing then by your logic the movie was profitable since it made more than the stated production.

Dark_Arbron posted...

EA, who similarly cant quite accept they will never have Call of Duty no matter how many knockoffs they make.

But Medal of Honor come before Call of Duty tho?

Avirosb posted...

Don't see how you could make Superman interesting without putting Bizarro or Lobo in your flic.

watch the DCAU

or the tommarowverse

or the new my adventures with superman

Ricemills posted...

But Medal of Honor come before Call of Duty tho?

Yes but Medal of Honor was never developed as a multiplayer game like Call of Duty.

Ricemills posted...

But Medal of Honor come before Call of Duty tho?

Revelation34 posted...

Yes but Medal of Honor was never developed as a multiplayer game like Call of Duty.

Call of Duty is the one that became the genre codifier. EA has a hate boner for it because someone else struck that gold, and it became the new thing for their bought studios to attempt to emulate, fail, then get shut down according to the EA business model.

In fact as scummy as Activision is, it's funny how they've basically rubbed EA's face in it twice. First with Call of Duty, then secondly with Anthem (and retroactively World of Warcraft). Watching one villain infuriate another is satisfying.

Was the movie pulled just after 2 weeks?

I think I saw a Guardians showing 7-10 days ago and no Flash showings.

FLAMING_EVIL_HOMER posted...

He really did Cavil dirty.

No, DC and Zack Snyder did Cavill dirty. Superman is the top example of how much of a trash fire the Snyderverse was.

I won't sit here and rag on Man of Steel, as much as I don't like it - that's his origin movie, fine. The next movie in a cinematic universe would ideally be setting up a new character - make a Batman or a Wonder Woman movie, and tease the inevitable team-up.

Nope, the next movie is a miserable forced conflict with a hyped title. BvS is essentially Avengers 0.5, with an ad right at the end for the actual inevitable Justice League movie. And at the end of the movie - the second one in the entire series, with a mediocre and truncated Batman and Wonder Woman introduction - they kill Superman.

That's the first kick in the dick for Cavill. He had one movie as Superman, and now in a desperate, pandering move by DC to Provide Reference, they go all Death of Superman on him right at the end. It fucking bites.

Okay, so third movie - Justice League. Imagine if The Avengers was the first time you saw Captain America or Thor, that's The Flash and Aqua Man in this movie. What did they do? They bring Superman back as their ace in the hole, and he kicks all sorts of ass.

So they had a faux-Christ shirtless drifter Superman to play up his human element, they kill Superman to fulfill his role as humanity's protector at all costs despite the fact that he's killed tens of thousands of people accidentally and grown weary of saving the world in the span of three years, and then they revive Superman so he can kick a metric fuckton of ass and go "Look At Me, I'm Superman!" before relegating him to cameos and occasional plot points in Shazam and The Suicide Squad.

How in the name of fuck was the DCAU "respectful" of either Superman or Henry Cavill?

Sure, I'm bummed out that Cavill had a tumultuous time. He's getting kicked off the Witcher TV show too, he's having a shitty time. I'm lukewarm on his Superman at best, but a lot of that is the dogshit material he had to work with. James Gunn rebooting the DC movies is like scraping dogshit off your shoe, and Henry Cavill isn't that dogshit - he's a dead fly or an ant that unfortunately got trapped in the dogshit, and in the act of disposing of it, he has to go with it.

And while I'm talking about DCAU actors - I feel really bad for Ben Affleck, because he always wanted to play Batman. He was in Daredevil because he figured that was as close to Batman as he was ever gonna get, and he eventually got the role in the DCAU. Years of shitty scripts, poor reception and janky reshoots turned his dream role into a fucking joke. Is it disrespectful for James Gunn to move on without him, without giving him a second chance in favor of Robert Pattinson or whoever he decides to be a newly rebooted Batman? I don't think it is. I just think it's unfortunate and a total bummer.

The entire DCAU failed Henry Cavill.

FLAMING_EVIL_HOMER posted...

Its funny because all the superman movies he was in weren't very good but everybody missed him once they said he wouldnt be superman anymore.

Probably because physically he's probably the best representation of Superman. Like, even if his movies suck, when I think of a "real" Superman, he come's closest in both physique and face.

Kradek posted...

Probably because physically he's probably the best representation of Superman. Like, even if his movies suck, when I think of a "real" Superman, he come's closest in both physique and face.

I don't think it's a huge challenge to find guys who look like Superman in Hollywood.

Punished_Blinx posted...

I don't think it's a huge challenge to find guys who look like Superman in Hollywood.

Kinda misses the point. Cavil wasn't the first Superman by any means, however I'd say that he represents the ideal model far more than previous Supermen.

Obviously it sounds like I'm dick riding, nothing I can do about that, I do respect his acting, but not enough to say something like this without honestly thinking it's true when compared to his predecessors.

So, yeah, obviously they can always find a new version, but there were better physical representations of Batman than Pattinson, even if Pattinson himself wasn't a terrible Batman, for comparison.

There's only two movie predecessors to even compare him to. One of which was screwed over more than Cavill even was and the other was from the 70s.

The new guy also looks like Superman. It's a buff guy who can pull off wearing glasses. It'll be okay.

MrMallard posted...

No, DC and Zack Snyder did Cavill dirty. Superman is the top example of how much of a trash fire the Snyderverse was.

I won't sit here and rag on Man of Steel, as much as I don't like it - that's his origin movie, fine. The next movie in a cinematic universe would ideally be setting up a new character - make a Batman or a Wonder Woman movie, and tease the inevitable team-up.

Nope, the next movie is a miserable forced conflict with a hyped title. BvS is essentially Avengers 0.5, with an ad right at the end for the actual inevitable Justice League movie. And at the end of the movie - the second one in the entire series, with a mediocre and truncated Batman and Wonder Woman introduction - they kill Superman.

That's the first kick in the dick for Cavill. He had one movie as Superman, and now in a desperate, pandering move by DC to Provide Reference, they go all Death of Superman on him right at the end. It fucking bites.

Okay, so third movie - Justice League. Imagine if The Avengers was the first time you saw Captain America or Thor, that's The Flash and Aqua Man in this movie. What did they do? They bring Superman back as their ace in the hole, and he kicks all sorts of ass.

So they had a faux-Christ shirtless drifter Superman to play up his human element, they kill Superman to fulfill his role as humanity's protector at all costs despite the fact that he's killed tens of thousands of people accidentally and grown weary of saving the world in the span of three years, and then they revive Superman so he can kick a metric fuckton of ass and go "Look At Me, I'm Superman!" before relegating him to cameos and occasional plot points in Shazam and The Suicide Squad.

How in the name of fuck was the DCAU "respectful" of either Superman or Henry Cavill?

Sure, I'm bummed out that Cavill had a tumultuous time. He's getting kicked off the Witcher TV show too, he's having a shitty time. I'm lukewarm on his Superman at best, but a lot of that is the dogshit material he had to work with. James Gunn rebooting the DC movies is like scraping dogshit off your shoe, and Henry Cavill isn't that dogshit - he's a dead fly or an ant that unfortunately got trapped in the dogshit, and in the act of disposing of it, he has to go with it.

And while I'm talking about DCAU actors - I feel really bad for Ben Affleck, because he always wanted to play Batman. He was in Daredevil because he figured that was as close to Batman as he was ever gonna get, and he eventually got the role in the DCAU. Years of shitty scripts, poor reception and janky reshoots turned his dream role into a fucking joke. Is it disrespectful for James Gunn to move on without him, without giving him a second chance in favor of Robert Pattinson or whoever he decides to be a newly rebooted Batman? I don't think it is. I just think it's unfortunate and a total bummer.

The entire DCAU failed Henry Cavill.

you mean DCEU

the DCAU is the an imated universe from the 90s and early 2000s

Revelation34 posted...

If it included marketing then by your logic the movie was profitable since it made more than the stated production.

thats not what all the news is saying. can you disprove all the news?

Kloe_Rinz posted...

thats not what all the news is saying. can you disprove all the news?

https://i.imgur.io/6LlqCea_d.webp

Cavill was done dirty by Dwayne Johnson, who tried to wag his dick around and basically screwed him over. But Snyder did him no favors. Look how Superman is characterized throughout. He hardly ever smiles. Every scene where he saves someone, he looks like he regrets it. He threatens people *constantly*. Like, I don't care that Luthor pushed Lois off of a building, Superman would never say to a normal person "I'll take you in without breaking you, which is more than you deserve."

Like, Henry Cavill was a wonderful ambassador for the character, but pretending that that enthusiasm was met in the actual film material is being completely disingenuous. And every single one of his film appearances underperformed, from MoS to BvS to JL to Black Adam. Even the Snyder Cut was meant to have people subscribe to HBO Max and it didn't even do that. James Gunn's Suicide Squad movie did better than the Snyder Cut.

I'd have loved to see a death of superman arc with cavil.

Imagine the 4 "supermen", cyborg-cavil, cool eye shades cavil, John Henry Irons and the superboy clone duking it out in movie # 2

OG supes comes back for movie 3 and teams up with cool eyeshades cavil and Irons to take down cyborg-cavil.

The_shibe posted...

I'd have loved to see a death of superman arc with cavil.

Imagine the 4 "supermen", cyborg-cavil, cool eye shades cavil, John Henry Irons and the superboy clone duking it out in movie # 2

OG supes comes back for movie 3 and teams up with cool eyeshades cavil and Irons to take down cyborg-cavil.

They would never have the guts to use those characters.

Cavill was either gonna be some stupid ass villain who helps destroy the world because Lois Lane dies or a jobber to Black Adam.

He had no chance.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Cavill was either gonna be some stupid ass villain who helps destroy the world because Lois Lane dies or a jobber to Black Adam.

He had no chance.

i still love how the rock demanded he be supermans enemy not shazams because he wants to be a A list heros foe not some C lister

even thoe he is playing a D list villian

People are just tired of the superhero schtick. Only reason Guardians of the Galaxy 3 was a hit, even while being objectively good, is because it's more of a space opera.

Revelation34 posted...

They would never have the guts to use those characters.

probably. It'd be so cool, though

royic posted...

Only reason Guardians of the Galaxy 3 was a hit, even while being objectively good, is because it's more of a space opera.

Don't be dense

Donomark posted...

Cavill was done dirty by Dwayne Johnson, who tried to wag his dick around and basically screwed him over. But Snyder did him no favors. Look how Superman is characterized throughout. He hardly ever smiles. Every scene where he saves someone, he looks like he regrets it. He threatens people *constantly*. Like, I don't care that Luthor pushed Lois off of a building, Superman would never say to a normal person "I'll take you in without breaking you, which is more than you deserve."

Like, Henry Cavill was a wonderful ambassador for the character, but pretending that that enthusiasm was met in the actual film material is being completely disingenuous. And every single one of his film appearances underperformed, from MoS to BvS to JL to Black Adam. Even the Snyder Cut was meant to have people subscribe to HBO Max and it didn't even do that. James Gunn's Suicide Squad movie did better than the Snyder Cut.

You know what's funny is that Cavill appreciated Whedon's take on Superman over Snyder's. But the Snyderbots will never talk about that part.

royic posted...

People are just tired of the superhero schtick. Only reason Guardians of the Galaxy 3 was a hit, even while being objectively good, is because it's more of a space opera.

Didn't they turn one of the bigger villains into somewhat of a joke in that one?

Without getting into the politics of Cavill as an actor or his performance, just looking at the Superman the movies portray I don't see anything resembling a character that is likeable at all. In 20 years when this dumb superhero cycle is over literally nobody is going to look back at the Zack Snyder Superman movies and say "that was a great characterization of Superman". They might say they're great action movies, if the future has really bad taste. The city destruction in Man of Steel is is probably a top tier city destruction if that's all you care about. But within that there's absolutely nothing to point at as a great humanizing achor to all the buildings falling down action. The story beyond his father dying is so nonsensical that there is nothing to hold on to as an example of why he'd be a good character. There's no stories about him on the newpaper with Lois being his Clarky self. The only thing I even remember about the newspaper arch of the character is Lois grimdarkly interviewing a terrorist leader while someone takes him out and then her and Clark have a bath. Ironically the Snyderverse made Superman more alien than he has ever been (in popular mainstream depictions at least) while doing storylines about how viewing him as alien is bad.

Avirosb posted...

Didn't they turn one of the bigger villains into somewhat of a joke in that one?

You're thinking of Antman 3: Quantumania, where they turn a fatal joke villain into a lame joke villain.

lolife67 posted...

You know what's funny is that Cavill appreciated Whedon's take on Superman over Snyder's. But the Snyderbots will never talk about that part.

I love when JL first released I saw complaints that Superman was too powerful and made the rest of the League seem irrelevant. Then the Snyder Cut came and made him even more powerful, but since he was in a black suit it was awesome and badass.

BurmesePenguin posted...

Without getting into the politics of Cavill as an actor or his performance, just looking at the Superman the movies portray I don't see anything resembling a character that is likeable at all. In 20 years when this dumb superhero cycle is over literally nobody is going to look back at the Zack Snyder Superman movies and say "that was a great characterization of Superman". They might say they're great action movies, if the future has really bad taste. The city destruction in Man of Steel is is probably a top tier city destruction if that's all you care about. But within that there's absolutely nothing to point at as a great humanizing achor to all the buildings falling down action. The story beyond his father dying is so nonsensical that there is nothing to hold on to as an example of why he'd be a good character. There's no stories about him on the newpaper with Lois being his Clarky self. The only thing I even remember about the newspaper arch of the character is Lois grimdarkly interviewing a terrorist leader while someone takes him out and then her and Clark have a bath. Ironically the Snyderverse made Superman more alien than he has ever been (in popular mainstream depictions at least) while doing storylines about how viewing him as alien is bad.

Heh.

AlveinFencer posted...

I love when JL first released I saw complaints that Superman was too powerful and made the rest of the League seem irrelevant. Then the Snyder Cut came and made him even more powerful, but since he was in a black suit it was awesome and badass.

why does snyder hate color anyways

Hopefully this means a quicker MAX release for streaming

AlveinFencer posted...

I love when JL first released I saw complaints that Superman was too powerful and made the rest of the League seem irrelevant. Then the Snyder Cut came and made him even more powerful, but since he was in a black suit it was awesome and badass.

I think Snyder is a hack but I have to be fair here and point out that Superman was much less pivotal to the actual ending in the Snyder Cut. Everyone had some kind of role to fulfill versus Superman just showing up and steamrolling everything. They needed Cyborg's tech AND the Flash's speed to make it all work, things Superman couldn't just brute force through.

AceMos posted...

why does snyder hate color anyways

Black suit Superman isnt Synder. Been a theme for his rebirth for quite a while.

But yeah the greyscale version seems a little silly.

Much prefer the colored Snyderverse to the shortened versions though.

lww99 posted...

Black suit Superman isnt Synder. Been a theme for his rebirth for quite a while.

But yeah the greyscale version seems a little silly.

Much prefer the colored Snyderverse to the shortened versions though.

uh the colors in all of his movies are muted