Current Events > Ron DeSantis Says He'll End Birthright Citizenship As President

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ron-desantis-says-ll-end-164208052.html

So these babies are born without a country, does that mean theyre free to live wherever they want? Or will they be deported to the ocean?

Luckily, he's not going to be president

EmilyTheCEman posted...

So these babies are born without a country, does that mean theyre free to live wherever they want? Or will they be deported to the ocean?

or maybe to space...

He also says he wants to make it legal to kill illegal immigrants

So he's like a month behind Trump's rhetoric?

I wonder if any of his assistants have said Sir, do you realize that this would include white babies born to straight white conservative American parents?

FUCK! How can we tweak this wording?!

EmilyTheCEman posted...

So these babies are born without a country, does that mean theyre free to live wherever they want? Or will they be deported to the ocean?

Presumably most babies born in the US to non-US citizen parents have citizenship in their parents' country?

"...Oh, rise, arise, Mary Hamilton
Arise and tell to me
What thou hast done with thy wee babe?
I saw and heard weep by thee"

"I put him in a tiny boat
And cast him out to sea
That he might sink or he might swim
But he'd never come back to me..."

EmilyTheCEman posted...

I wonder if any of his assistants have said Sir, do you realize that this would include white babies born to straight white conservative American parents?

FUCK! How can we tweak this wording?!

yeah, good one. So none of you on this board support this proposal? there must be some people in the u.s. who support this. Or else it wouldn't be proposed

BurmesePenguin posted...

Presumably most babies born in the US to non-US citizen parents have citizenship in their parents' country?

not in all cases, iirc

BurmesePenguin posted...

Presumably most babies born in the US to non-US citizen parents have citizenship in their parents' country?

Thats under the assumption that the other countries dont also start doing this.

EmilyTheCEman posted...

I wonder if any of his assistants have said Sir, do you realize that this would include white babies born to straight white conservative American parents?

FUCK! How can we tweak this wording?!

There are 2 paths to being born a citizen, on US soil or having American parents. Getting rid of the soil qualification wouldn't negate the parental one.

Not trying to hide the white supremacy, huh? The thing about being too extreme...is that you alienate a good chunk of voters needed to win.

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

There are 2 paths to being born a citizen, on US soil or having American parents. Getting rid of the soil qualification wouldn't negate the parental one.

Which still makes it dumb, because if people are transitioning to live in the country, it's even dumber to have the child just not have citizenship because they were born in that country to parents that haven't fully become citizens.

It makes a system messy and makes it even easier for people to fall through the cracks.

Doesn't this idiot have a lawsuit to attend?

Not sure how the president can do that. Birthright citizenship is literally in the constitution. Being a governor with your state's legislature fully under your control is a more powerful position if that's something you want to change.

EmilyTheCEman posted...

So these babies are born without a country, does that mean theyre free to live wherever they want? Or will they be deported to the ocean?

It's not like that europe is full of stateless people, just because they have no jus soli.

There are usually two ways to grant citizenship at birth.

jus soli, by the place they were born in.
jus sanguinis, by the parents.

Pure jus soli, with no restrictions, is something that only America (the continent) truly has these days, and even they also use jus sanguinis if children are born abroad.

Other countries are usually jus sanguinis, sometimes with some easier ways to citizenship for people born here.

EmilyTheCEman posted...

Thats under the assumption that the other countries dont also start doing this.

I'm not entirely sure you know what birthright citizenship is.

Lol he thinks he has a chance at president

BurmesePenguin posted...

I'm not entirely sure you know what birthright citizenship is.

Don't many countries not have birthright citizenship?

ArtiRock posted...

Which still makes it dumb, because if people are transitioning to live in the country, it's even dumber to have the child just not have citizenship because they were born in that country to parents that haven't fully become citizens.

It makes a system messy and makes it even easier for people to fall through the cracks.

This. What if this kid is born not a citizen of anywhere and suddenly his immigrant parents who are in this process of making him a citizen both die in a car accident before the process is completed?

Being an automatic citizen of wherever you are born is literally the most simple, basic, undisputed right we should all have. Even though youre 1 day old and know nothing about existence, society, laws or rights, you at least have the safety of knowing that this is home.

Republicans hate the constitution and bill of rights.

CedarPointcp posted...

Don't many countries not have birthright citizenship?

Almost no countries outside the Americas has it as a concept. Presumably the reason is that it was implemented to get people to immigrate to the new colonies, but I haven't looked it up so I can't be sure. Just seems logical.

Intro2Logic posted...

Luckily, he's not going to be president

Thing is Trump also said that. Pretty much every republican will say that, if not in 2024 they will.in the future.

I don't have enough faith in America to believe a republican will never win again. So it's only a matter of time.

uwnim posted...

Not sure how the president can do that. Birthright citizenship is literally in the constitution.

Yeah it would require an Amendment, which Congress must pass and 2/3 or more states must ratify it.

I'm really wondering when they're going to realize that presidents can't unilaterally end birthright citizenship.

Let's remember that birthright citizenship was originally a quick way to give the freed slaves US citizenship. If the law is repealed, that would mean me and a lot of other blacks would no longer be considered US citizens despite our families having lived here at least 150 years.

Seriously, it's extremly annoying to read such political discussions about the US, and people go "wtf, omg, thats the most stupid bullshit ever, it's inhuman and can't work at all", when I'm here, sitting in europe, with exactly this system being the standard for centuries.

it's going to be a split government in 2024 regardless who wins the presidency.

republicans will take the senate, and the democrats will take the house.

like always, nothing gets done.

CableZL posted...

I'm really wondering when they're going to realize that presidents can't unilaterally end birthright citizenship.

Given his past actions, he'll simply mandate illegal and unconstitutional actions to his administration and there will be a lot of civil rights violations and lawsuits that end up costing tax payers an insane amount of money. For SCOTUS to eventually tell him to fuck himself.

So basically vote DeSantis if you want to piss about about a billion dollars of US treasure directly to the pockets of lawyers and illegal immigrants. And certainly legal immigrants/citizens that will get caught up in the misuse of whatever ridiculous EO he signs.

BB_mofo posted...

Let's remember that birthright citizenship was originally a quick way to give the freed slaves US citizenship. If the law is repealed, that would mean me and a lot of other blacks would no longer be considered US citizens.

That's what people like DeFascist wants. They see the looming demographic change on the horizon, especially in a state like Texas where Hispanics make the largest population.

Trump said the same thing in 2015...

BB_mofo posted...

Let's remember that birthright citizenship was originally a quick way to give the freed slaves US citizenship. If the law is repealed, that would mean me and a lot of other blacks would no longer be considered US citizens despite our families having lived here at least 150 years.

No it wouldnt. It wouldnt retroactively take away citizenship. Thus, any children born of people who got citizenship in this way were then born of citizens.

Karovorak posted...

Seriously, it's extremly annoying to read such political discussions about the US, and people go "wtf, omg, thats the most stupid bullshit ever, it's inhuman and can't work at all", when I'm here, sitting in europe, with exactly this system being the standard for centuries.

Sure, but how many of them would just randomly change the rules if they could?

Karovorak posted...

Seriously, it's extremly annoying to read such political discussions about the US, and people go "wtf, omg, thats the most stupid bullshit ever, it's inhuman and can't work at all", when I'm here, sitting in europe, with exactly this system being the standard for centuries.

The issue isn't always what they want to change. The issue is why.

It's like how Florida made (or tried to?) being a pedo punishable by death. Free hint: It's not actually pedophiles they're targeting.

ArtiRock posted...

Sure, but how many of them would just randomly change the rules if they could?

"Random change" is another thing, but some postings here are just extremly uninformed.

Why should this effect children of american people, when their children already get US citizenship when born abroad too (I don't know any country that doesn't inherit citizenship like that at all)?

Why should it suddenly take the citizenship of people away?

Why is it supposed to be "dump" or "white supremacy" when most other countries in Europe, Asia and Africa are already working like that?

CableZL posted...

I'm really wondering when they're going to realize that presidents can't unilaterally end birthright citizenship.

They know, but they know their base doesn't know, so they get to keep saying dumb bullshit like this and their gullible supporters go "Yeah! FUCK YEAH! I'm voting for that guy!"

MisterPengy posted...

The issue isn't always what they want to change. The issue is why.

It's like how Florida made (or tried to?) being a pedo punishable by death. Free hint: It's not actually pedophiles they're targeting.

Im out of the loop on this one, who are they targeting?

EmilyTheCEman posted...

Im out of the loop on this one, who are they targeting?

LGBT

EmilyTheCEman posted...

Im out of the loop on this one, who are they targeting?

Children of immigrants - Asians and especially Latinos.

brestugo posted...

Children of immigrants - Asians and especially Latinos.

the law would apply to everyone though right

Guns_of_Verdun posted...

LGBT

Anyone raping kids should be put down.

Has there been any uptick in LGBT arrests for pedophilia and child rape specifically in regards to DeSantis's culture war?
I see where you're going, but you are skipping a step. Unless they also redefine and expand what it is to be a "child rapist" then how is that actually in practice targeting gays/trans?

Karovorak posted...

"Random change" is another thing, but some postings here are just extremly uninformed.

Why should this effect children of american people, when their children already get US citizenship when born abroad too (I don't know any country that doesn't inherit citizenship like that at all)?

Why should it suddenly take the citizenship of people away?

Why is it supposed to be "dump" or "white supremacy" when most other countries in Europe, Asia and Africa are already working like that?

It effects people trying to become citizens. EU generally seems to respect the notion of foreigners having children while overseas. Dropping that rule in the US means that we now have issues because we don't have s ton of laws on citizenship. IE, a child in Germany from two foreigners can be applied for citizenship and qualify despite not being of Germanic descent.

In the change here, a child born in the US from two foreigners that are trying to gain citizenship is no longer citizen by default, and we have no current laws surrounding it that i know of. It's a law that needs other laws made to supplement it otherwise it is stupid.

ArtiRock posted...

It effects people trying to become citizens. EU generally seems to respect the notion of foreigners having children while overseas. Dropping that rule in the US means that we now have issues because we don't have s ton of laws on citizenship. IE, a child in Germany from two foreigners can be applied for citizenship and qualify despite not being of Germanic descent.

In the change here, a child born in the US from two foreigners that are trying to gain citizenship is no longer citizen by default, and we have no current laws surrounding it that i know of. It's a law that needs other laws made to supplement it otherwise it is stupid.

I was just quickly skimming this link here:

https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/learn-about-citizenship/citizenship-and-naturalization/i-am-a-lawful-permanent-resident-of-5-years

Not sure if I missed some detail, but it doesn't seem that different.

ghettoraider81 posted...

No it wouldnt. It wouldnt retroactively take away citizenship. Thus, any children born of people who got citizenship in this way were then born of citizens.

Ron would absolutely try to take away citizenship from people though.

CedarPointcp posted...

the law would apply to everyone though right

Yes.

Although laws have specifically targeted groups in the past, - anti-Chinese and anti-Mexican in particular - this targets all immigrant children. That's kind of the Stephen Miller vibe and those who want to stop all immigration.

No current citizen would lose citizenship if something like what's proposed (unfortunately) became law though. Article I of the Constitution forbids ex post facto laws at the federal and state level.

brestugo posted...

Although laws have specifically targeted groups in the past, - anti-Chinese and anti-Mexican in particular - this targets all immigrant children

Not to mention that even laws that apply to everyone in theory can easily screw over specific groups (minorities) in practice. They're the most sinister ones, as those who pass them get to say "hey, we made the law apply apply across the board, it's fair!"

Dark_Arbron posted...

Not to mention that even laws that apply to everyone in theory can easily screw over specific groups (minorities) in practice. They're the most sinister ones, as those who pass them get to say "hey, we made the law apply apply across the board, it's fair!"

(Selective) Enforcement is always the devil in the details.

That's part of "intersectionality" aka how laws and institutions bring about certain societal outcomes.

Guns_of_Verdun posted...

LGBT

WTF really? How are they gonna pull that off? Two adult dudes willingly having sex with each other is a lot different than a guy molesting a child usually via manipulation.