Current Events > How does gun control work?

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Jx1010
06/18/23 1:05:32 PM
#51:


reincarnator07 posted...
I mean in an era where you have access to the collected knowledge of humanity, yeah I think someone would strongly consider consulting that knowledge for uber basic information.

If your concern was bias, this topic will be at least as biased as anything you find elsewhere. People are biased by nature, often without even acknowledging this.
I understand people can be biased, but at least here I can get different opinions, views. I believe looking at all the angles is the best way to form a better opinion.
And Im grateful to the people that have shared information on the subject.

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#52
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reincarnator07
06/18/23 1:24:51 PM
#53:


Jx1010 posted...
Yes, things can be discussed without getting political.
Sorry u hear u cant do that.
You'll find it's very difficult to discuss politics without getting political.

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AlCalavicci
06/18/23 1:38:46 PM
#54:


Jx1010 posted...
I understand people can be biased, but at least here I can get different opinions, views. I believe looking at all the angles is the best way to form a better opinion.
And Im grateful to the people that have shared information on the subject.

Cool, so what is your view on it?

Before you say "you are still forming your view since you don't know anything", where are you leaning right now? What do you currently understand the situation to be?

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Jx1010
06/18/23 1:46:29 PM
#55:


AlCalavicci posted...
Cool, so what is your view on it?

Before you say "you are still forming your view since you don't know anything", where are you leaning right now? What do you currently understand the situation to be?
Well, first of all I would like to hear from more people in other regions. Someone mentioned australia, maybe there are people here in other countries and they could share how things are handled there.

Second, where do illegal weapons come from? Something someone mentioned. I think he meant they are legally manufactured but how do they end up with people who shouldnt have them.

Also, why are u asking in such a defensive way, I have not judge anyone or taken sides. All I have done was asked for information. You also sound upset I am not informed well on this, I dont know why.

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creativerealms
06/18/23 1:46:50 PM
#56:


CreekCo posted...
Historically, counties have banned weapons from citizens. It tends to not turn out great long term.
Why do people think the only choice are nearly no gun laws and restrictions and ban all guns from citizens?

Also generally its not banning guns from all citizens that's the problem. Generally its a combination of demonizing a group, taking away all their rights, including their ability to own guns and protect themselves. Lets say there is this group that's being targeted, called mentally ill, whose very existence is threatened. Now if their rights to own guns was under threat that would be a problem.

Honestly I think the GOP is very close to doing just that with trans people. We are already seeing "Second Amendment supports" suggest that trans people shouldn't be allowed to own guns because of "mental Illness."


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AlCalavicci
06/18/23 2:11:07 PM
#57:


Jx1010 posted...
Well, first of all I would like to hear from more people in other regions. Someone mentioned australia, maybe there are people here in other countries and they could share how things are handled there.

Second, where do illegal weapons come from? Something someone mentioned. I think he meant they are legally manufactured but how do they end up with people who shouldnt have them.

Also, why are u asking in such a defensive way, I have not judge anyone or taken sides. All I have done was asked for information. You also sound upset I am not informed well on this, I dont know why.


AlCalavicci posted...
where are you leaning right now? What do you currently understand the situation to be?


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hockeybub89
06/18/23 2:27:53 PM
#58:


Jx1010 posted...
Yes, things can be discussed without getting political.
Sorry u hear u cant do that.
brb gonna discuss next year's Presidential election without getting poltical

Maybe I'll then discuss the FFXVI Demo without getting too much into video games

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Jx1010
06/18/23 2:34:15 PM
#59:


hockeybub89 posted...
brb gonna discuss next year's Presidential election without getting poltical

Maybe I'll then discuss the FFXVI Demo without getting too much into video games
The fact that u cant have an intelligent conversation like two civilized people without reverting back to political views is what bothers you.
At the end of the day, people have to sit down putting aside their differences and find a solution. Thats what adults do.

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#60
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Intro2Logic
06/18/23 2:48:10 PM
#61:


Jx1010 posted...
The fact that u cant have an intelligent conversation like two civilized people without reverting back to political views is what bothers you.
What does political mean to you?

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Foppe
06/18/23 2:52:21 PM
#62:


Jx1010 posted...
Second, where do illegal weapons come from? Something someone mentioned. I think he meant they are legally manufactured but how do they end up with people who shouldnt have them.
In Sweden, they are smuggled from Europe.
Lots of them are remains from the Bosnian war. They used to throw in grenades for free for a while, which was problematic.

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Jx1010
06/18/23 2:58:24 PM
#63:


Foppe posted...
In Sweden, they are smuggled from Europe.
Lots of them are remains from the Bosnian war. They used to throw in grenades for free for a while, which was problematic.
Really, I didnt know that.
I heard alot of weapons were left in the middle east when the us pulled out of some areas. I assume they end up in the wrong hands.

Question, what are the laws in sweden? No weapons at all, right?

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reincarnator07
06/18/23 3:14:17 PM
#64:


Jx1010 posted...
The fact that u cant have an intelligent conversation like two civilized people without reverting back to political views is what bothers you.
At the end of the day, people have to sit down putting aside their differences and find a solution. Thats what adults do.
It's certainly possible to have an intelligent and valuable conversation on gun control, but it literally is a political view. Whether you support or abhor any form of gun control to any level, that's a political view. If you don't understand this, I don't think you're ready for any sort of political discussion.

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Foppe
06/18/23 3:28:45 PM
#65:


Jx1010 posted...
Question, what are the laws in sweden? No weapons at all, right?
You can own guns for three reasons.
Hunting, competition (like biathlon) and for collections.
For hunting, you must pass a hunting exam.
For competition, you must be a member in a club and be somewhat active.
For collections, it must be a specific form of collection, like the development of a specific form of gun. You cant just hoard them like in USA.
Each weapon also requires a separate gun license that you get from the police, who does a harder background check than USA.
This license is pretty strict. You must store your gun in a heavy safe while not in use and it must be transported safely. You must always carry the license with you when you transport it. If not, you will lose both the license and the gun.

...well, the police also got guns so I guess it exist four reasons.

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UnholyMudcrab
06/18/23 3:33:56 PM
#66:


Why y'all still feeding him

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Jx1010
06/18/23 3:39:22 PM
#67:


reincarnator07 posted...
It's certainly possible to have an intelligent and valuable conversation on gun control, but it literally is a political view. Whether you support or abhor any form of gun control to any level, that's a political view. If you don't understand this, I don't think you're ready for any sort of political discussion.
So far I have been able to discuss the subject with a few users without getting much into politics, clean, respectful discussions.
Others however, like u and some other users, keep going back to the same thing, politics, politics, without even discussing the subject. You are the kind to start argument with other users over this and thats what Im trying to avoid. Just have an open discussion and be more informed without the drama u guys dwell on.

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#68
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Jx1010
06/18/23 3:46:05 PM
#69:


Foppe posted...
You can own guns for three reasons.
Hunting, competition (like biathlon) and for collections.
For hunting, you must pass a hunting exam.
For competition, you must be a member in a club and be somewhat active.
For collections, it must be a specific form of collection, like the development of a specific form of gun. You cant just hoard them like in USA.
Each weapon also requires a separate gun license that you get from the police, who does a harder background check than USA.
This license is pretty strict. You must store your gun in a heavy safe while not in use and it must be transported safely. You must always carry the license with you when you transport it. If not, you will lose both the license and the gun.

...well, the police also got guns so I guess it exist four reasons.
Thank u for sharing this.
Do u currently live in sweden?
What u describe sounds fair, Im not aware of shootings in sweden either. I always hear good things about them.
Would be nice to visit, see what society is like, see what crime is like, see how the police is like over there. My coworker was there last year, Ill ask him about this tomorrow.

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Jx1010
06/18/23 3:47:42 PM
#70:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Bro, just stop.

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modena
06/18/23 3:48:11 PM
#71:


Holy shit....

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#72
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Monolith1676
06/18/23 3:49:20 PM
#73:


It only works with people who follow laws.

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#74
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bfslick50
06/18/23 3:58:31 PM
#75:


Jx1010 posted...
Second, where do illegal weapons come from? Something someone mentioned. I think he meant they are legally manufactured but how do they end up with people who shouldnt have them.

In America you buy it legally and then sell it second hand to someone who couldnt buy it legally. You see you have to pass a background check if you buy the gun from a dealer but there is no regulations on second hand sales. Sell it to whoever you want to. And the seller doesnt have to worry about raising red flags from buying a shit ton of guns cause the FBI is legally required to delete their background check history every week so they have no record of how frequently someone buys guns. Technically the ATF keeps track of that but they are legally barred from having a searchable computer database. A study of Pittsburgh police reports found half of the guns reported stolen were reported stolen AFTER the cops contacted the owner to let them know their gun was used in a crime.

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hockeybub89
06/18/23 4:00:23 PM
#76:


Robbery laws only work for people who care about breaking the law.

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xXfireglzXx
06/18/23 5:00:17 PM
#77:


We're already at the cyclical point of society where people aren't obeying laws and are rather testing enforcement, guns just got a head start on the majority of other crimes in this regard, they're catching up though.


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#78
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Foppe
06/18/23 5:11:43 PM
#79:


Jx1010 posted...
Thank u for sharing this.
Do u currently live in sweden?
What u describe sounds fair, Im not aware of shootings in sweden either. I always hear good things about them.
Would be nice to visit, see what society is like, see what crime is like, see how the police is like over there. My coworker was there last year, Ill ask him about this tomorrow.
Born and raised.
Shootings were not really a thing when I grew up. These days we got criminal gangs in the big cities that recruit underage teenagers as shooters. And they got no respect, they shoot against groups of people just because they believe their target is near.

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xXfireglzXx
06/18/23 5:27:28 PM
#80:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


A rule is followed because the individual believes that doing so results in the best outcome for themselves. If you're reliant upon enforcement to stop someone from breaking a law you've already passed the tipping point. The key with enforcement is that it can only occur AFTER the law is broken. The damage is already done and likely the only applicable punishment is purely punitive in a lot of cases. You can't revive the dead, but you can jail the perpetrator.

You can look at something like religion(which I'm neither arguing for or against tbh, that ship has sailed.), which had/has people convinced that even if conventional enforcement didn't catch them, some almighty ethereal being would punish them for their wrongdoing. If they commit a sin, nothing happens, there isn't some divine intervention smiting them the moment they act unlawfully...but the idea of eternal damnation acted as an effective enough deterrent that people believe acting lawfully is ultimately the best outcome for them. As long as you somehow have the majority of people convinced that it's in their best interest NOT to commit a crime, then you have an additional layer of societal pressure inhibiting people from doing so.

So, you look at our current state of affairs. Our leaders regularly break the law without repercussions and wealth generally acts as a legal shield for those who have it. People struggle to make ends meet, and as the CDC just stated, depression is at an all time high. You have the news convincing people that not only is the world dangerous, but everyone who doesn't believe what they do is a violent menace coming for everything they know and love. For the majority of people, committing a crime appears more reasonable than ever before because not only is there not societal pressure not to, but those who do so are often rewarded in the short term before anything negative even happens(Look at Theramos and FTX for examples of such.); or their situation is already shitty enough that there's literally no outcome worse than the one they're already faced with on a daily basis. "Nothing to lose". So, in an increasingly secular society, what pressures are applied to encourage the average citizen to NOT break the law? Gun violence is the most insidious of the existing outcomes, but it's not the only enforcement being tested right now, just the most visible.

What is going to down the road replace religion as a way to keep a modern secular society in check? You see it already happening in China and elsewhere. Once you're able to maintain surveillance on your citizens and your citizens are AWARE of the fact that they're being watched/monitored and at risk of having their social or financial credit impacted, that becomes the modern deterrent for the average person not to commit crimes. A return of an existential threat required to "keep people in-line." Again, you've allowed society to create its own deterrent through fear of potential consequences, which is the most effective way to become "lawful" as a nation. I truly believe that American leadership condemns mass surveillance only until the existing model becomes viable for us to implement as a whole, because it just makes sense from the perspective of those in charge/control of a modern society. I could even be convinced that the reason we won't see gun control of any significant nature in my lifetime is because gun violence makes the future case for mass surveillance that much easier for the government. Like the modern Republican MO of claiming a problem is "Unsolvable", destroying every viable solution, and then going, "See? Unsolvable."

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Intro2Logic
06/18/23 5:30:19 PM
#81:


I think you've raised more questions than you've answered

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Ruvan22
06/20/23 10:25:31 PM
#82:


TC why do you believe the poster from Sweden was sharing information that wasn't political?
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