Current Events > Daily reminder that Democrats are not "the Left"

(+) Yeah! (+)

They are centrist on social issues, and center-right on economic issues.

I'm sorry but I live in America

I mean yeah but they are still pretty close compared to the gap between right and left tho

Like if the left is an elephant the democrats are a woolly mammoth

Sir this is a Wendy's

Bernie alt right confirmed

They are left when compared to the other option.

If the right is "the right", then we're going to call the other party "the left".

bluezero posted...

If the right is "the right", then we're going to call the other party "the left".

lolno

they're closer to the right than the left

Democrats are pro-capitalism, and thus are pro-hierarchies, and as such are center at best.

Only the right sees the democrats as left

But as such, we're all forced to think of them as 'the left'

wackyteen posted...

Only the right sees the democrats as left

But as such, we're all forced to think of them as 'the left'

Calling them the left, or the far left, or radical leftists, limits what is acceptable political thought.

Accolon posted...

Calling them the left, or the far left, or radical leftists, limits what is acceptable political thought.

By design, thanks to the right

Ah, I remember getting laughed at for saying Biden was center right at best. Republicans have pushed us so far right that anything remotely good for the people is seen as far left.

Left and right are relative terms. The more you know.

bluezero posted...

If the right is "the right", then we're going to call the other party "the left".

What do you call parties to the left of "the other party"?

bluezero posted...

If the right is "the right", then we're going to call the other party "the left".

republicans and democrats are both right-wing

Democrats aren't "the left" based on what? "I've picked like 4 countries in Europe and have declared they represent the full left-right spectrum, and based on that assessment Democrats are centrists."

Regardless of whatever word you assign its clear Republicans and Democrats stand for different issues, at least in public they do and Im sure behind closed doors theres more collusion than the average joes like us can ever find out about. But sometimes I feel we disagree too much over the words that are used to label a party than the actual talking points, though I think people emotionally associating words in such a manner is also a method of control similarly to how it was in 1984.

It is so funny when you call Bernie far left, here he would belong on the right side.

s0nicfan posted...

Democrats aren't "the left" based on what? "I've picked like 4 countries in Europe and have declared they represent the full left-right spectrum, and based on that assessment Democrats are centrists."

If you input the positions of (major) democratic candidates, that represent the party at large, into political compasses and similar "where I do align politically" type deals, the Democrats come out center to right-of-center.

Also, almost anybody on the actual left of the political spectrum will tell you point blank that the Democratic party is not left enough for most of them.

The American Right have dragged the perception of politics so far right that even fairly right positions look left.

Well, see you tomorrow then?

s0nicfan posted...

Democrats aren't "the left" based on what? "I've picked like 4 countries in Europe and have declared they represent the full left-right spectrum, and based on that assessment Democrats are centrists."

Do you think that the concept of the "left" and "right" is just some nebulous thing that has no actual definition? Or do you just not understand that even simple comparisons make the entire concept pretty laughable to view the Democrats as anything resembling other leftist policies?

The whole "Republicans and Democrats are both right wing" thing was a paradigm that fit 10 or 20 years ago a little, and 30 years ago a lot, but not really today. The Democrats are a liberal, center left party, and have moved past the kinds of parties we used to compare them to, like British Labour, while the Republicans have moved right to outright fascism and are readying themselves for a genocide against trans people. They can't really be equivocated like they used to be.

Yeah, they aren't a worker-centric party and haven't been for maybe 50 years, so they'll never really be the actual left (Union power is practically non-existent in America, you can't have a real left without that), but some members within would certainly qualify, like Bernie or AOC, and yeah, they have shitty "centrists" who really are just right wing like Joe Manchin and the whole "Problem Solvers Caucus", which is one of the problems with their conception as a "big tent party" and having absolutely no gatekeeping, but neither of those outliers is really where the majority of the party lies.

Accolon posted...

They are centrist on social issues

Name a few.

and center-right on economic issues.

Do you define right as anything less aggressive than socializing the means of production?

I always hate discussions like this because it shows an incredible Western-European/Nordic view of politics.

On top of that it's a rather pointless topic of conversation. "This politician or party would be conservative in Norway or w.e." and it's like alright? The people and parties we talk about aren't in Norway so it's a bit of a silly axis through which to measure things

Doom_Art posted...

I always hate discussions like this because it shows an incredible Western-European/Nordic view of politics.

On top of that it's a rather pointless topic of conversation. "This politician or party would be conservative in Norway or w.e." and it's like alright? The people and parties we talk about aren't in Norway so it's a bit of a silly axis through which to measure things

I agree and also theyre straight up wrong a lot of the time. No, Bernie would not be right wing in Norway. Hes solidly left pretty much everywhere.

Doom_Art posted...

I always hate discussions like this because it shows an incredible Western-European/Nordic view of politics.

On top of that it's a rather pointless topic of conversation. "This politician or party would be conservative in Norway or w.e." and it's like alright? The people and parties we talk about aren't in Norway so it's a bit of a silly axis through which to measure things

that's why I tend to avoid specific locations; instead basing my assessments on the actual positions they hold, and on whether those positions are in line with leftist ideologies.

there are no mainstream leftist parties in the US or Canada.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

By comparing American politics to the politics of this narrow region of Europe

Itachi157 posted...

I agree and also theyre straight up wrong a lot of the time. No, Bernie would not be right wing in Norway. Hes solidly left pretty much everywhere.

Oh god it's the worst

"Bernie would be a centrist or a conservative in Europe" like holy shit shut up lol

Doom_Art posted...

By comparing American politics to the politics of this narrow region of Europe

europe has a broader spectrum of political ideologies because many of them still have an actual leftist presence in their politics, unlike the US

Doom_Art posted...

By comparing American politics to the politics of this narrow region of Europe

To be fair it's only usually done to show a much further left position existing rather than anything else. You could also go with something like "literally every other 'first world' nation has some form of socialized healthcare" to show that America is further right in a generic sense (seeing as you can do it with basically any leftist policy as desired). It really is a case of being applicable to basically any nation in the top third of the world economies, people just gravitate to the ones that are viewed as the "most" far left.

Doom_Art posted...

By comparing American politics to the politics of this narrow region of Europe

Doesn't really matter where it is. The point is that there are ideas beyond the boundaries of the American spectrum, and the politics of Western Europe prove that to be undoubtedly true.

Trying to separate yourself from something before its too late is too late

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Democrats are pro-capitalism, and thus are pro-hierarchies, and as such are center at best.

I wouldnt say you have to be full on socialist to qualify for left of center.

Foppe posted...

It is so funny when you call Bernie far left, here he would belong on the right side.

I doubt theres any modern major country where Bernie would be seen as center-right

Justin2Krelian posted...

I wouldnt say you have to be full on socialist to qualify for left of center.

Socialism isn't the furthest left, you know.

Justin2Krelian posted...

I wouldnt say you have to be full on socialist to qualify for left of center.

You don't, but you do have to be not-pro-capitalist.

ellis123 posted...

To be fair it's only usually done to show a much further left position existing rather than anything else. You could also go with something like "literally every other 'first world' nation has some form of socialized healthcare" to show that America is further right in a generic sense (seeing as you can do it with basically any leftist policy as desired). It really is a case of being applicable to basically any nation in the top third of the world economies, people just gravitate to the ones that are viewed as the "most" far left.

while this is true, it's also worth pointing out that many 'second world' and 'third world' nations, past and present, have (or have had) some form of socialized healthcare. centering the "top third" of the world economies ignores the colonial aspect inherent in capitalism -- that is, the nations that are currently wealthy and powerful largely became that way by stealing wealth from other nations

Justin2Krelian posted...

I doubt theres any modern major country where Bernie would be seen as center-right

Having multiple parties means that parties on the right side can have some socialism in their program and still be on the right side, it is not black or white.

Foppe posted...

Having multiple parties means that parties on the right side can have some socialism in their program and still be on the right side, it is not black or white.

which parties on the right have "some socialism" in their program?

You can have a party alligned with the right socially, but the left economically. Liberalism is the inverse, though more moderate.

Aside from a couple, Democrat politicians self identify as centrists that hate "the left."

averagejoel posted...

while this is true, it's also worth pointing out that many 'second world' and 'third world' nations, past and present, have (or have had) some form of socialized healthcare. centering the "top third" of the world economies ignores the colonial aspect inherent in capitalism -- that is, the nations that are currently wealthy and powerful largely became that way by stealing wealth from other nations

Ye, that's definitely true. I was more just making the distinction to point out that you could view America strictly through the lens of "every nation with anything resembling wealth" and it would end up on the extreme-right of basically everywhere. It's only once you get to the nations that subside heavily on dirt farming that you end up with any level of comparison on most anything political on the left-right spectrum.

It is more about the idea that the dart-board that you throw the dart at for ideologies for developed nations cannot end up further right than the US, and it's only when you hit the wall that a comparison to the US can be found.

I don't see cancelling student loan debt or providing protections for the LGBTQ community as center right policies but I guess you do you.

averagejoel posted...

which parties on the right have "some socialism" in their program?

Parties that use Social liberalism?

Foppe posted...

Parties that use Social liberalism?

can you give some examples of parties on the right which have implemented "some socialism" and elaborate on which specific policies you think are "some socialism"

Sandalorn posted...

I don't see cancelling student loan debt or providing protections for the LGBTQ community as center right policies but I guess you do you.

I said they are center right on economic policies. And yes, I would consider their half-measures on those two points as pretty centrist.

averagejoel posted...

can you give some examples of parties on the right which have implemented "some socialism" and elaborate on which specific policies you think are "some socialism"

If multiple parties on the right works together with parties on the left to give the left socialistic parties a majority instead of creating a right majority, then the right parties must implement socialistic ideas, right?
Because that happens in multiple Swedish municipalities.