Current Events > Morning thought, why the american comic industry is losing to japanese manga

(+) Yeah! (+)

I think it's how difficult it is to get into them with all the various reboots, preboots, sequels, different artists, different writers and so on. with a manga you get one artist and story from one or two people and that's it.

Thanks Obamasan

Trueee

The coldest take imaginable.

It could also be because comic writers hate their fans and do everything in their power to show it. Nobody likes this current Spider-Man storyline but they want to continue with it and the writer was advised to not go to any cons for a while after the issue this month comes out.

Its mainly because the stories themselves get to finish or go on long enough to keep up with continuity and stay canon without any confusion. American comics are usually a mess, but stay afloat because of previous generations and at times cartoons and movies. They could retire the comics today and the movies would still bring the brand success.

That's pretty much it. The amount of imprints and ongoing storylines has a more daunting barrier of entry. You also get more bang for your buck with manga as opposed to comics.

Lots of factors, but what you said is one of them.
One of the other major factors is the price. American comics definitely can't compete in global market this way.

I honestly think one of the reasons is that they stopped selling marvel and DC in grocery stores and gas stations

All you can find now there is archie

Manga is more varied in genres and such. Arent most western comics just Naruto capeshit

manga is generally shorter as well, with concise beginning/middle/ends. Exclusions apply to one piece etc

The format is also bad for sales. Marvel and DC want to sell you 10 pages of comic with 10 pages of ads for like $6 an issue. Manga comes in collected bundles where $10 gets you like 20 different comics.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Those two drown out other comics though.

A veteran Batman writer has noticed that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utGdLiGOWFg&t=1233s

Its not too hard to figure out, really, he said. Theres a lot of dedication, passion, and craft in manga comics. And thats missing, almost entirely, from the Big Two. Marvel and DC still run the store here. They still are the market leaders. And unfortunately, there is no variety there. Theres nothing really different. Theres not something for everybody the way there is in manga.
I mean, in Japanese manga theres golf comics. Theres not one comic about golf. Theres multiple [manga] about golf. And Ive made reference on these videos to one of my favorite manga, which is about fishing. Its just about fishing. Its not about vampires fishing on another planet or witches fishing or fishing after a zombie apocalypse. This is about guys fishing. Surf casting and whatever. Fishing from boats, fishing on the shore, fishing from the banks of rivers, and the stories are fascinating, and beautifully drawn, and beautifully realized.
But here, what do we get? We get superheroes and poorly done superheroes. There really isnt anything else at the mainstream companies. Its superheroes, superheroes, superheroes.
Why, why would you want to read this crap if you had a choice of reading a genre that you prefer, be it horror, or mystery, or espionage, or golf? When theres only one flavor in American comics, of course Japanese comics are going to win the day.
He went on, The biggest problem here is that all I see American comic book creators, the people in the mainstream do, is complain about manga. Well, why dont you learn from manga? Why dont you look at what manga is doing and do that? And I dont mean draw people with huge eyes and lots of speed lines. Do more varied stories, do more complex stories. Put more effort into the artwork. Put more effort into the craft.
While he thinks comic book writers ought to look toward manga, he doesnt mean just copy it. If they try to copy it just like they did in the 90s here in the United States, theyll just get it all wrong. They dont know what theyre doing. They have no interest. Theyre just complain about it, as if thats going to get them any more readers. . . I dont see the mainstream, the Big Two ever catching up, he said.

tremain07 posted...

I think it's how difficult it is to get into them with all the various reboots, preboots, sequels, different artists, different writers and so on. with a manga you get one artist and story from one or two people and that's it.

Indeed. Compare Superman to say Dragon Ball.

Theres more than like 30 reboots and specials alone for Spider-Man.

Dragon Ball theres pretty just been a post-DBZ reboot, which is DB Super. Otherwise its pretty much never had a story change.

A lot of counter culture peeps will say its the w-word but Id actually disagree. While the examples they would pose are just pure obnoxiousness, those types of releases are pretty rare compared to what the mainstream typically makes.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

Manga is more varied in genres and such. Arent most western comics just Naruto capeshit

Western comics exist beyond Marvel and DC, you know. Might as well say that manga is boring because it's all generic shonen.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Yeah, most of the popular manga is shonen, and those feel all the same with each other moreso than DC/Marvel are.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/0/5/AAfWomAAEc_J.jpg

gsninja posted...

Western comics exist beyond Marvel and DC, you know. Might as well say that manga is boring because it's all generic shonen.

But Naruto didnt drown out every other manga like superhero comics did in the west

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

idk it's kind of true. For example, even something as big as spies were in the past, there are now barely if any spy comics around. Whereas there are a ton of spy mangas in a variety of genres. Not to mention romance manga (popular with women) are as massive as romance movies, maybe even bigger these days, while romance comics are cryptids.

It helps that much more Japanese people read manga than Americans or other Westerners read comics. Comics are pretty niche here even with the boom of the MCU and DC movies.

All the big fat milkers are in mangas

It seems a bit ignorant to think Manga is winning just because it has some hotties in it alot of female heroines tend to look like porn stars in stripper costumes too and people actually get mad when they don't I remember a huge rage fit in comic world years ago when Wonder Woman started wearing pants instead of how she looked in things like Justice League both the old show and the 00s era show

tig ol' bitties

tremain07 posted...

It seems a bit ignorant to think Manga is winning just because it has some hotties in it alot of female heroines tend to look like porn stars in stripper costumes too and people actually get mad when they don't I remember a huge rage fit in comic world years ago when Wonder Woman started wearing pants instead of how she looked in things like Justice League both the old show and the 00s era show

That kind of goes back to your original point though. Manga artists are assigned editors who often guide them in the story making process and will occasionally redirect their story towards what seems to be more popular with the fan base. Like, the only reason Dragon Ball had a tournament in the first place was because the series was underperforming and Toriyama's editor told him that people liked fighting more.

So like, if comic book artists are making changes to establish characters and the readers are being pissy about it, the manga approach would be to pivot back towards what people seem to want. The comics approach seems to be to push it out and then talk about how shitty their buyers are for not wanting it.

Comics are just a low quality medium that any decent artist and writer can jump into but so is most manga too with its atrocious shonen and harem genres that companies love to dish out to equally cringe readers, let's not bullshit ourselves here thinking one is more popular than the other due to content quality.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

No? it was big yes but it didn't mean every manga was copying Naruto it was big IP in a magazine with stories like it and even then those stories were not one for ones of Naruto, Bleach was dudes with swords, Gintama was comedy, One Piece is pirates, Hitman reborn were mafioso, SKET Dance was comedy/drama slice of life, Tu-love-ru was ecchi comedy romance harem, Toriko was beefy muscle guys fighting animals and eating food, Zatch Bell was super powered golem kids fighting each other, Bobobo bo bo bobo was made on drugs, Death Note was a mystery series, Prince of Tennis was litterally tennis and so on and so on

s0nicfan posted...

That kind of goes back to your original point though. Manga artists are assigned editors who often guide them in the story making process and will occasionally redirect their story towards what seems to be more popular with the fan base. Like, the only reason Dragon Ball had a tournament in the first place was because the series was underperforming and Toriyama's editor told him that people liked fighting more.

So like, if comic book artists are making changes to establish characters and the readers are being pissy about it, the manga approach would be to pivot back towards what people seem to want. The comics approach seems to be to push it out and then talk about how shitty their buyers are for not wanting it.

And yet it still doesn't enroach on the ability to find more varied manga compared to finding more varied comics. Meanwhile non super hero comics often get ignored in favor of manga.

Comics go on forever and they just end up pulling stories out of their ass.

Manga are contained stories, you can expect a beginning, middle, climax and ending.

tremain07 posted...

And yet it still doesn't enroach on the ability to find more varied manga compared to finding more varied comics. Meanwhile non super hero comics often get ignored in favor of manga.

Oh, absolutely. The variety of stories is definitely a major part of all of this. But that's also why I think the format in which it sold is so important. Comics are kind of pricey, so buyers are being forced to choose between a known quantity like Superman or something they've never heard of before. If you buy an issue of shounen jump, you're going to get the issue you want along with like 19 other stories you may flip through and end up liking, all for roughly the same price of a single comic issue.

It's much easier to sell a weird concept if it's bundled with more popular series. It gives that concept an opportunity to present itself and gain followers without having to compete directly against the big anchor titles that sell the magazine.

Edit: which, funny enough, is how strip malls work as well. You have big anchor stores like Best buy or a food store that you know is going to draw a consistent crowd, and then that strip mall is filled with a whole bunch of smaller stores that sell more niche products. Those smaller stores are never going to be able to draw their own crowd, but if they're within walking distance of a place that people want to go to they will eventually start to draw enough people to succeed as its own entity.

Cobra1010 posted...

and ending.

Not all the time, Conan and Ippo will forever keep going with no end in sight

I actually read comics more than manga these days and something interesting I've noticed is that the live action and even the cartoon adaptations now are usually considered better than the source material while mangas are 80% of the time considered better than their anime and live action adaptations.

As someone who enjoys both I will say following a comic story (outside of a TPB) is much MUCH harder than a manga story.

"hey, I'd love to read 'major manga story 69'!"
"awesome, you'll just need this book."

"hey, I'd love to read 'major comic story 420'!"
"awesome, you'll just need x-men 2023 #2, #6-10, #14, and #16 along with x-force 2022 #2-8, #15, and #22-23 and also x-23 2023 #24-28, and #32. But if you want more story on the character you like I'd also recommend grabbing wolverine 2022 #2-4! No of course we don't have all of those here at this location, silly."

StarSpangled posted...

Its not too hard to figure out, really, he said. Theres a lot of dedication, passion, and craft in manga comics. And thats missing, almost entirely, from the Big Two. Marvel and DC still run the store here. They still are the market leaders. And unfortunately, there is no variety there. Theres nothing really different. Theres not something for everybody the way there is in manga.
I mean, in Japanese manga theres golf comics. Theres not one comic about golf. Theres multiple [manga] about golf. And Ive made reference on these videos to one of my favorite manga, which is about fishing. Its just about fishing. Its not about vampires fishing on another planet or witches fishing or fishing after a zombie apocalypse. This is about guys fishing. Surf casting and whatever. Fishing from boats, fishing on the shore, fishing from the banks of rivers, and the stories are fascinating, and beautifully drawn, and beautifully realized.
But here, what do we get? We get superheroes and poorly done superheroes. There really isnt anything else at the mainstream companies. Its superheroes, superheroes, superheroes.
Why, why would you want to read this crap if you had a choice of reading a genre that you prefer, be it horror, or mystery, or espionage, or golf? When theres only one flavor in American comics, of course Japanese comics are going to win the day.
He went on, The biggest problem here is that all I see American comic book creators, the people in the mainstream do, is complain about manga. Well, why dont you learn from manga? Why dont you look at what manga is doing and do that? And I dont mean draw people with huge eyes and lots of speed lines. Do more varied stories, do more complex stories. Put more effort into the artwork. Put more effort into the craft.
While he thinks comic book writers ought to look toward manga, he doesnt mean just copy it. If they try to copy it just like they did in the 90s here in the United States, theyll just get it all wrong. They dont know what theyre doing. They have no interest. Theyre just complain about it, as if thats going to get them any more readers. . . I dont see the mainstream, the Big Two ever catching up, he said.

What a based fucking take. Yeah manga as a story telling industry doesn't have tie problem with providing something for everyone unlike the US comicbook industry.

Dabrikishaw15 posted...

What a based fucking take. Yeah manga as a story telling industry doesn't have tie problem with providing something for everyone unlike the US comicbook industry.

Comics has done a lot of experimentation to keep it fresh like what if batman trapped in the past after getting hit by darkness omega sanction.

Poorly posted...

Comics has done a lot of experimentation to keep it fresh like what if batman trapped in the past after getting hit by darkness omega sanction.

The problem is that they have to rely on established characters.
Creating new main characters are often seen as a risky move in comics nowadays. It's not like the 70s-80s where new heroes keep popping up.
And this leads to the stagnant feel that comic books always revolves around the same superheroes.

Dabrikishaw15 posted...

What a based fucking take. Yeah manga as a story telling industry doesn't have tie problem with providing something for everyone unlike the US comicbook industry.

I agree in general. Manga is much cheaper to produce, so there isn't as much risk to experiment with genres and stories.

The two are not, and never were in competition with one another TC. You've been watching to many click bait youtube videos on the matter.

Comicbooks have excelled in literally all other media aside from books. That do everything you've claimed was a issue but haven't impacted their quality or success.

And not just comicbooks but other media like star wars as well that completely contradict the manga format as being superior at all.

It's just different, that's it.

Prismsblade posted...

The two are not, and never were in competition with one another TC. You've been watching to many click bait youtube videos on the matter.

It's just different, that's it.

this is true, they are not in direct competition with one another. With omnis comics are actually more popular than before.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/4/7/AAam6dAAEdC7.jpg

hyperskate65 posted...

As someone who enjoys both I will say following a comic story (outside of a TPB) is much MUCH harder than a manga story.

"hey, I'd love to read 'major manga story 69'!"
"awesome, you'll just need this book."

"hey, I'd love to read 'major comic story 420'!"
"awesome, you'll just need x-men 2023 #2, #6-10, #14, and #16 along with x-force 2022 #2-8, #15, and #22-23 and also x-23 2023 #24-28, and #32. But if you want more story on the character you like I'd also recommend grabbing wolverine 2022 #2-4! No of course we don't have all of those here at this location, silly."

The crossover stuff is insane, especially when it's plot relevant. I understand they're trying to get people to buy more crap, but it makes me want to touch none of it.

You can find decent stuff if you read various Image comics or something.

Got to give the manga medium credit for making farming interesting to read about (silver spoon, from full metal alchemist's mangaka) and for making me actually give a damn about american football. (Eyeshield 21, one of my favorite mangas ever).

Shit like this isnt helping
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/7/5/AAatMdAAEdDX.jpg

though the guy in the bottom right corner would make a good reaction image

That may be a factor but the main issue is availability and marketing