Current Events > Is NATO partly to blame for Russian invasion of Ukraine?

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Chrknu 03/23/23 3:18:09 AM #1:	So I came over this video when just looking for information on the war and it kinda makes sense. I'm not anti-NATO, as I believe having defensive alliances is important, but I have noticed that several NATO countries buys military equipment that many people in the military says have better attacking capabilities than defensive. With all the shit that has happened in just the last 20 years with Iraq, Syria, Libya etc and with Eisenhowers warning about the military industrial complex in the back of my mind, not to mention the scandals with both Trump and Biden about Ukraine (none of which I have researched enough to understand), I just worry that this is just global politics that could have been avoided. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzgPJeYZaOU I have looked at what WION is, and it seems to be a very politically biased Indian source, but I still find the points made to be worth discussing, even though I would be skeptical about deep diving into that news channel. I have no extensive historical knowledge, so I'm just trying to understand how we got here and have a moderate and informed opinion on things and after listening to Dan Carlins hardcore history about what was leading up to the first and second WW, my feeling is that complex stuff, like geopolitics and wars, are very rarely as easy as only one side has all the blame. Does this justify Russia? No, I don't think so. Do I think USA meddles too much on other continents? Yes, it seems so to me. I sometimes wonder if all these interventions are more about weakening others through making some chaos, more than keeping peace, though. What is your take? Please be constructive, I am ready to be more informed on the matter :). Remember that I still think how Russia has reacted is very wrong, even if i question if NATO has done some wrong choices in their expansion. --- Hell is not a place you go if you're not a Christian, it's the failure of your life's greatest ambition -Immortal Technique <cite>Chrknu posted [p:972352088] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>So I came over this video when just looking for information on the war and it kinda makes sense. I'm not anti-NATO, as I believe having defensive alliances is important, but I have noticed that several NATO countries buys military equipment that many people in the military says have better attacking capabilities than defensive. With all the shit that has happened in just the last 20 years with Iraq, Syria, Libya etc and with Eisenhowers warning about the military industrial complex in the back of my mind, not to mention the scandals with both Trump and Biden about Ukraine (none of which I have researched enough to understand), I just worry that this is just global politics that could have been avoided.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzgPJeYZaOUI have looked at what WION is, and it seems to be a very politically biased Indian source, but I still find the points made to be worth discussing, even though I would be skeptical about deep diving into that news channel. I have no extensive historical knowledge, so I'm just trying to understand how we got here and have a moderate and informed opinion on things and after listening to Dan Carlins hardcore history about what was leading up to the first and second WW, my feeling is that complex stuff, like geopolitics and wars, are very rarely as easy as only one side has all the blame. Does this justify Russia? No, I don't think so. Do I think USA meddles too much on other continents? Yes, it seems so to me. I sometimes wonder if all these interventions are more about weakening others through making some chaos, more than keeping peace, though. What is your take? Please be constructive, I am ready to be more informed on the matter :). Remember that I still think how Russia has reacted is very wrong, even if i question if NATO has done some wrong choices in their expansion.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Big_Nabendu 03/23/23 3:20:50 AM #2:	Blame it on the tsar --- The embrace of the Dark is gentle. Let it absorb your sorrows, forever. \[T]/ Owner of the 500 board and Leader of sunbro board GT Nabendu <cite>Big_Nabendu posted [p:972352112] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>Blame it on the tsar</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kakapo 03/23/23 3:25:58 AM #3:	Russia using the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO as an excuse for invading the country is like an abusive husband beating up his ex-wife because he thinks shes about to take out a restraining order. --- There's resounding gongs and clanging bowls, there's cats to guide my soul 24 hour party parrot <cite>Kakapo posted [p:972352138] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>Russia using the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO as an excuse for invading the country is like an abusive husband beating up his ex-wife because he thinks shes about to take out a restraining order.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
wackyteen 03/23/23 3:26:10 AM #4:	Chrknu posted... What is your take? Please be constructive, I am ready to be more informed on the matter :). https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/5/4/AAPw6aAAETn6.jpg --- The name is wackyteen for a reason. Never doubt. <cite>wackyteen posted [p:972352140] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>Chrknu posted... </cite><quote>What is your take? Please be constructive, I am ready to be more informed on the matter :).</quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/5/4/AAPw6aAAETn6.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kakapo 03/23/23 3:27:19 AM #5:	wackyteen posted... https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/5/4/AAPw6aAAETn6.jpg Also this. --- There's resounding gongs and clanging bowls, there's cats to guide my soul 24 hour party parrot <cite>Kakapo posted [p:972352151] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>wackyteen posted... </cite><quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/5/4/AAPw6aAAETn6.jpg</quote>Also this.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BurmesePenguin 03/23/23 3:30:57 AM #6:	Only people who have a bias towards hating America and loving communism thinks this. <cite>BurmesePenguin posted [p:972352174] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>Only people who have a bias towards hating America and loving communism thinks this. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kakapo 03/23/23 3:32:04 AM #7:	BurmesePenguin posted... Only people who have a bias towards hating America and loving communism thinks this. Hate to tell you this, but Russia isnt communist, chief. --- There's resounding gongs and clanging bowls, there's cats to guide my soul 24 hour party parrot <cite>Kakapo posted [p:972352184] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>BurmesePenguin posted... </cite><quote>Only people who have a bias towards hating America and loving communism thinks this.</quote>Hate to tell you this, but Russia isnt communist, chief.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BurmesePenguin 03/23/23 3:32:54 AM #8:	Mmm kay. <cite>BurmesePenguin posted [p:972352188] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>Mmm kay.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DKlethal 03/23/23 3:33:50 AM #9:	Bro, if Russian military was on the U.S. Mexican border, what do you think would happen? Open your eyes. --- Heavy lies the crown as I cut you down. <cite>DKlethal posted [p:972352194] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>Bro, if Russian military was on the U.S. Mexican border, what do you think would happen? Open your eyes. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zikten 03/23/23 3:44:44 AM #10:	Ukraine is a sovereign nation, and if they want to join NATO, it's their right. Russia has no right to tell them that they can't. Russia thinks they are entitled to own Ukraine. They are wrong. I want to see Ukranian soldiers in Moscow someday, tearing down the Russian flag from atop the Kremlin, like Russia once did to the Nazi flag in Berlin <cite>Zikten posted [p:972352266] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>Ukraine is a sovereign nation, and if they want to join NATO, it's their right. Russia has no right to tell them that they can't. Russia thinks they are entitled to own Ukraine. They are wrong. I want to see Ukranian soldiers in Moscow someday, tearing down the Russian flag from atop the Kremlin, like Russia once did to the Nazi flag in Berlin </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DKlethal 03/23/23 3:48:30 AM #11:	Zikten posted... Ukraine is a sovereign nation, and if they want to join NATO, it's their right. Russia has no right to tell them that they can't. Russia thinks they are entitled to own Ukraine. They are wrong. I want to see Ukranian soldiers in Moscow someday, tearing down the Russian flag from atop the Kremlin, like Russia once did to the Nazi flag in Berlin theres a reason why youll never be a leader of literally anything. --- Heavy lies the crown as I cut you down. <cite>DKlethal posted [p:972352282] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>Zikten posted... </cite><quote>Ukraine is a sovereign nation, and if they want to join NATO, it's their right. Russia has no right to tell them that they can't. Russia thinks they are entitled to own Ukraine. They are wrong. I want to see Ukranian soldiers in Moscow someday, tearing down the Russian flag from atop the Kremlin, like Russia once did to the Nazi flag in Berlin</quote>theres a reason why youll never be a leader of literally anything. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Chrknu 03/23/23 3:49:06 AM #12:	BurmesePenguin posted... Only people who have a bias towards hating America and loving communism thinks this. I don't like communism. I don't hate America, though I hate the RAW RAW MURICA attitude. Fair? --- Hell is not a place you go if you're not a Christian, it's the failure of your life's greatest ambition -Immortal Technique <cite>Chrknu posted [p:972352284] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>BurmesePenguin posted... </cite><quote>Only people who have a bias towards hating America and loving communism thinks this.</quote>I don't like communism. I don't hate America, though I hate the RAW RAW MURICA attitude. Fair?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
cjsdowg 03/23/23 3:51:25 AM #13:	NATO has done horrible stuff. Example Libya. Where they used framed racist as freedom fighters and both back slavery. There is no need to blame them for Russia's bullcrap. --- To be a poor man is hard, but to be a poor race in a land of dollars is the very bottom of hardships. W.E.B. Du Bois <cite>cjsdowg posted [p:972352294] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>NATO has done horrible stuff. Example Libya. Where they used framed racist as freedom fighters and both back slavery. There is no need to blame them for Russia's bullcrap.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
majin_nemesis 03/23/23 3:52:31 AM #14:	Zikten posted... Ukraine is a sovereign nation, and if they want to join NATO, it's their right. Russia has no right to tell them that they can't. Russia thinks they are entitled to own Ukraine. They are wrong. <cite>majin_nemesis posted [p:972352305] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>Zikten posted... </cite><quote>Ukraine is a sovereign nation, and if they want to join NATO, it's their right. Russia has no right to tell them that they can't. Russia thinks they are entitled to own Ukraine. They are wrong.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BurmesePenguin 03/23/23 3:56:56 AM #15:	Chrknu posted... Fair? No. <cite>BurmesePenguin posted [p:972352336] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>Chrknu posted... </cite><quote>Fair?</quote>No.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sonic_Cannon 03/23/23 4:41:47 AM #16:	OT: In a word, no. The problem with having a neighbour like Russia is that it doesn't matter what you do, you can't trust their word for anything. Once you realise Ukraine has no realistic ability to trust Russia, their decision tree looks like this: Get friendly with NATO -> Russia invades, does damage but gets strong international pushback Don't get friendly with NATO -> Russia invades, does heaps of damage and only gets a shitty lukewarm international response like they did after Crimea. Putin and his friends can make a big scene out of it and victim blame forever, but there is no world in which someone merely joining a defensive alliance and building a local military is grounds for an invasion. --- Keep it green. <cite>Sonic_Cannon posted [p:972352583] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>OT: In a word, no.The problem with having a neighbour like Russia is that it doesn't matter what you do, you can't trust their word for anything. Once you realise Ukraine has no realistic ability to trust Russia, their decision tree looks like this:Get friendly with NATO -> Russia invades, does damage but gets strong international pushbackDon't get friendly with NATO -> Russia invades, does heaps of damage and only gets a shitty lukewarm international response like they did after Crimea.Putin and his friends can make a big scene out of it and victim blame forever, but there is no world in which someone merely joining a defensive alliance and building a local military is grounds for an invasion.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
itachi15243 03/23/23 4:50:41 AM #17:	Yeah no. Easy to see where this is trying to go too. --- I do drawings and stuff https://www.fiverr.com/blueblitz <cite>itachi15243 posted [p:972352641] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>Yeah no. Easy to see where this is trying to go too. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Nukazie 03/23/23 4:53:04 AM #18:	sure why not --- We suffer from the delusion that the entire universe is held in order by the categories of human thought. <cite>Nukazie posted [p:972352657] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>sure why not</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Iodine 03/23/23 5:27:18 AM #19:	Kakapo posted... Hate to tell you this, but Russia isnt communist, chief. While this is obviously true, nearly everyone I have seen who identifies as communist has a positive opinion of Russia. --- In Belichick we Trust <cite>Iodine posted [p:972352876] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>Kakapo posted... </cite><quote>Hate to tell you this, but Russia isnt communist, chief.</quote>While this is obviously true, nearly everyone I have seen who identifies as communist has a positive opinion of Russia. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
synklare 03/23/23 5:34:34 AM #20:	No. Ukraine had effectively shelved the idea of joining NATO way back when, support amongst Ukrainians for joining NATO grew quite a bit for the government at the time + citizens and then proceeded to skyrocket post-invasion which is to be expected. Ultimately though, NATO support grew as a direct result of the Crimea ordeal, so that's entirely on Russia. If I'm remembering correctly, they polled Ukrainian citizens prior to 2014 - 2015 (before annexation) and support for joining NATO wasn't particularly high at all, in fact it was seen as a non-priority. I know that it was stated that Russia cannot veto Ukraine's decision to join NATO if they wish, as larger countries shouldn't be able to dictate what it's smaller neighbours do or something along those lines, thus the door was always open. Ultimately, Russia are a shit neighbour. Their military might which was once respected has crumbled in terms of global court of opinion and the only thing they currently have to fall back on to get anywhere is the threat of nuclear bombardment to anyone that opposes them. NATO isn't innocent, saintly, perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but the idea that they are at fault for Russia's actions just seems silly to me. I mean for fuck sake, if Russia manages to fully occupy Ukraine, they'll be bordered with another two NATO nations, Poland and Romania. So what is Putin going to do then exactly? He seems to be pushing his nation closer to the very thing he supposedly doesn't want on his doorstep. --- Ryzen 5600 \| MSI MECH 2 X RX 6600 \| 16GB RAM https://steamcommunity.com/id/Hybridizm \| Gamertag : Hybridizm <cite>synklare posted [p:972352909] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>No.Ukraine had effectively shelved the idea of joining NATO way back when, support amongst Ukrainians for joining NATO grew quite a bit for the government at the time + citizens and then proceeded to skyrocket post-invasion which is to be expected. Ultimately though, NATO support grew as a direct result of the Crimea ordeal, so that's entirely on Russia.If I'm remembering correctly, they polled Ukrainian citizens prior to 2014 - 2015 (before annexation) and support for joining NATO wasn't particularly high at all, in fact it was seen as a non-priority.I know that it was stated that Russia cannot veto Ukraine's decision to join NATO if they wish, as larger countries shouldn't be able to dictate what it's smaller neighbours do or something along those lines, thus the door was always open.Ultimately, Russia are a shit neighbour. Their military might which was once respected has crumbled in terms of global court of opinion and the only thing they currently have to fall back on to get anywhere is the threat of nuclear bombardment to anyone that opposes them.NATO isn't innocent, saintly, perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but the idea that they are at fault for Russia's actions just seems silly to me.I mean for fuck sake, if Russia manages to fully occupy Ukraine, they'll be bordered with another two NATO nations, Poland and Romania. So what is Putin going to do then exactly? He seems to be pushing his nation closer to the very thing he supposedly doesn't want on his doorstep.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
thronedfire2 03/23/23 5:38:04 AM #21:	Iodine posted... While this is obviously true, nearly everyone I have seen who identifies as communist has a positive opinion of Russia. but is that because they actually like Russia, or because they hate the US more? --- I could see you, but I couldn't hear you You were holding your hat in the breeze Turning away from me In this moment you were stolen... <cite>thronedfire2 posted [p:972352927] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>Iodine posted... </cite><quote>While this is obviously true, nearly everyone I have seen who identifies as communist has a positive opinion of Russia.</quote>but is that because they actually like Russia, or because they hate the US more?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DrizztLink 03/23/23 5:45:05 AM #22:	No. --- http://guidesmedia.ign.com/guides/9846/images/slowpoke.gif https://i.imgur.com/M8h2ATe.png https://i.imgur.com/6ezFwG1.png <cite>DrizztLink posted [p:972352975] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>No.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Foppe 03/23/23 5:46:15 AM #23:	Let me guess, the video forgot to mention the Budapest Memorandum, in which Russia promised to never attack Ukraine if Ukraine destroyed all of its nukes? --- GameFAQs isn't going to be merged in with GameSpot or any other site. We're not going to strip out the soul of the site. -CJayC <cite>Foppe posted [p:972352986] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>Let me guess, the video forgot to mention the Budapest Memorandum, in which Russia promised to never attack Ukraine if Ukraine destroyed all of its nukes?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Chrknu 03/23/23 6:37:05 AM #24:	Sonic_Cannon posted... OT: In a word, no. The problem with having a neighbour like Russia is that it doesn't matter what you do, you can't trust their word for anything. Once you realise Ukraine has no realistic ability to trust Russia, their decision tree looks like this: Get friendly with NATO -> Russia invades, does damage but gets strong international pushback Don't get friendly with NATO -> Russia invades, does heaps of damage and only gets a shitty lukewarm international response like they did after Crimea. Putin and his friends can make a big scene out of it and victim blame forever, but there is no world in which someone merely joining a defensive alliance and building a local military is grounds for an invasion. This is actually a very fair point. Though, one of the claims Putin makes is that NATO has put bases close to the borders of Russia, with capabilities of attacking Russian cities. I think that was used as one of the excuses for the 2014 invasion. But yeah, I agree with the sentiment about Ukrania being in a position where they would want to join NATO and that is very much Russias fault. I remember some talks by political pundits on the left after the invasion of Iraq on nations we don't trust developing nukes, and their comment was: Of course opposing nations won't stop, especially now. Develop nukes -> USA will invade. Don't develop nukes -> USA will invade, but now you don't have a deterrent. cjsdowg posted... NATO has done horrible stuff. Example Libya. Where they used framed racist as freedom fighters and both back slavery. There is no need to blame them for Russia's bullcrap. Yeah... Although NATO as an organization didn't go to war with Iraq, several big players in NATO supported USA in it without clear evidence. I think I see Russia as weak compared to the US and that US and NATO are able to do power-chess moves that Russia isn't capable of, and with the history USA has with wars, I just don't trust their geopolitical strategies. "Expect more from the police than the thug"-mentality. I trust Russia less, though, just so that becomes clear... It's just so much propaganda everywhere, so I like to question the given narrative. --- Hell is not a place you go if you're not a Christian, it's the failure of your life's greatest ambition -Immortal Technique <cite>Chrknu posted [p:972353364] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>Sonic_Cannon posted... </cite><quote>OT: In a word, no.The problem with having a neighbour like Russia is that it doesn't matter what you do, you can't trust their word for anything. Once you realise Ukraine has no realistic ability to trust Russia, their decision tree looks like this:Get friendly with NATO -> Russia invades, does damage but gets strong international pushbackDon't get friendly with NATO -> Russia invades, does heaps of damage and only gets a shitty lukewarm international response like they did after Crimea.Putin and his friends can make a big scene out of it and victim blame forever, but there is no world in which someone merely joining a defensive alliance and building a local military is grounds for an invasion.</quote>This is actually a very fair point. Though, one of the claims Putin makes is that NATO has put bases close to the borders of Russia, with capabilities of attacking Russian cities. I think that was used as one of the excuses for the 2014 invasion. But yeah, I agree with the sentiment about Ukrania being in a position where they would want to join NATO and that is very much Russias fault.I remember some talks by political pundits on the left after the invasion of Iraq on nations we don't trust developing nukes, and their comment was: Of course opposing nations won't stop, especially now.Develop nukes -> USA will invade.Don't develop nukes -> USA will invade, but now you don't have a deterrent.cjsdowg posted... </cite><quote>NATO has done horrible stuff. Example Libya. Where they used framed racist as freedom fighters and both back slavery. There is no need to blame them for Russia's bullcrap.</quote>Yeah... Although NATO as an organization didn't go to war with Iraq, several big players in NATO supported USA in it without clear evidence. I think I see Russia as weak compared to the US and that US and NATO are able to do power-chess moves that Russia isn't capable of, and with the history USA has with wars, I just don't trust their geopolitical strategies. "Expect more from the police than the thug"-mentality. I trust Russia less, though, just so that becomes clear... It's just so much propaganda everywhere, so I like to question the given narrative. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Chrknu 03/23/23 6:38:00 AM #25:	Foppe posted... Let me guess, the video forgot to mention the Budapest Memorandum, in which Russia promised to never attack Ukraine if Ukraine destroyed all of its nukes? You are correct. It doesn't mention that. Will check it out :) --- Hell is not a place you go if you're not a Christian, it's the failure of your life's greatest ambition -Immortal Technique <cite>Chrknu posted [p:972353377] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>Foppe posted... </cite><quote>Let me guess, the video forgot to mention the Budapest Memorandum, in which Russia promised to never attack Ukraine if Ukraine destroyed all of its nukes?</quote>You are correct. It doesn't mention that. Will check it out :)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
divot1338 03/23/23 6:38:52 AM #26:	Kakapo posted... Hate to tell you this, but Russia isnt communist, chief. I hate to tell you this but Russia isnt capitalist either. --- Moustache twirling villian https://i.imgur.com/U3lt3H4.jpg- Kerbey <cite>divot1338 posted [p:972353386] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>Kakapo posted... </cite><quote>Hate to tell you this, but Russia isnt communist, chief.</quote>I hate to tell you this but Russia isnt capitalist either.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 03/23/23 8:15:05 AM #27:	DKlethal posted... theres a reason why youll never be a leader of literally anything But Ukraine wants to join NATO and is fighting back against Russia. Are you saying Ukraine, like Zikten, should also not be the leader of literally anything? --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png he/him/they/them <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:972354198] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>DKlethal posted... </cite><quote>theres a reason why youll never be a leader of literally anything</quote>But Ukraine wants to join NATO and is fighting back against Russia. Are you saying Ukraine, like Zikten, should also not be the leader of literally anything?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
brestugo 03/23/23 8:20:34 AM #28:	Another JAQing off thread. --- Putin delenda est <cite>brestugo posted [p:972354249] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>Another JAQing off thread.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dan_Haren- 03/23/23 8:24:12 AM #29:	Chrknu posted... very politically biased Indian source Don't trust any Indian news, its almost as rigged as Chinese/Russian news, its 90% propaganda. What india has to gain out of all this is that they are buying cheap oil from Russia and the US doesn't like that because its undermining our sanctions. Indian authorities have staunchly defended their actions saying they are simply doing whats best for their country. So I'm not surprised they are sympathizing with Russia. As long as war continues, cheap Russia oil continues to flow to china and India, so both China and India have incentive to keep things going. And no NATO is not to blame. Theres been several theories but its not 1 specific thing. I think this video goes over some of the reasons the best. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wbzf0ix2G5I&ab_channel=StanfordAlumni <cite>Dan_Haren- posted [p:972354293] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>Chrknu posted... </cite><quote>very politically biased Indian source</quote>Don't trust any Indian news, its almost as rigged as Chinese/Russian news, its 90% propaganda. What india has to gain out of all this is that they are buying cheap oil from Russia and the US doesn't like that because its undermining our sanctions. Indian authorities have staunchly defended their actions saying they are simply doing whats best for their country. So I'm not surprised they are sympathizing with Russia. As long as war continues, cheap Russia oil continues to flow to china and India, so both China and India have incentive to keep things going. And no NATO is not to blame. Theres been several theories but its not 1 specific thing. I think this video goes over some of the reasons the best.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wbzf0ix2G5I&ab_channel=StanfordAlumni</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dan_Haren- 03/23/23 8:25:40 AM #30:	Foppe posted... Let me guess, the video forgot to mention the Budapest Memorandum, in which Russia promised to never attack Ukraine if Ukraine destroyed all of its nukes? Don't forget the 2013 Ukraine-China nuclear deal. <cite>Dan_Haren- posted [p:972354312] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>Foppe posted... </cite><quote>Let me guess, the video forgot to mention the Budapest Memorandum, in which Russia promised to never attack Ukraine if Ukraine destroyed all of its nukes?</quote>Don't forget the 2013 Ukraine-China nuclear deal. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
iPhone_7 03/23/23 8:27:12 AM #31:	If they dont want countries joining NATO then they should stop threatening those countries. --- Sig User Logic http://i.imgur.com/lA5fm7w.jpg <cite>iPhone_7 posted [p:972354329] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>If they dont want countries joining NATO then they should stop threatening those countries. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Solar_Crimson 03/23/23 8:27:45 AM #32:	DKlethal posted... theres a reason why youll never be a leader of literally anything. What's wrong with what he said? --- Eat the rich Destroy the GOP <cite>Solar_Crimson posted [p:972354336] in Is NATO pa... [t:80388042]...</cite> <quote>DKlethal posted... </cite><quote>theres a reason why youll never be a leader of literally anything.</quote>What's wrong with what he said?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Is NATO partly to blame for Russian invasion of Ukraine? (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Is NATO partly to blame for Russian invasion of Ukraine?