Current Events > Being a writer isn't knowing the story highlights.

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's knowing where a character lives, what's their occupation, what they wear, what their social and economical status are, who they hang out with, and what they do with their free time.

If you can't answer those things, you need to go back to the drawing board. It's probably also a good idea to know a character's politics and religion (if any) whether or not those things come up in the story.

If they don't come up in the story it's not relevant

SSJKirby posted...

If they don't come up in the story it's not relevant

It can help with writing the character's perspective.

SSJKirby posted...

If they don't come up in the story it's not relevant

This, really. Depending on what the story needs, those details are sometimes just extraneous window dressing.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

This, really. Depending on what the story needs, those details are sometimes just extraneous window dressing.

like I said earlier, it doesn't need to come up in the story, it's more to help inform how a character perceives the world around them and how they react.

Too many people worry about minor details that dont come up, in both characters and world. Its an excuse to avoid writing.

PerseusRad posted...

Too many people worry about minor details that dont come up, in both characters and world. Its an excuse to avoid writing.

No. I'm seriously going to work on my novel after one, maybe two more YouTube videos.

<_<

I would say if the things TC listed doesnt come up, thats a sign that your characters are shit.

Like, how you gonna have a character that we dont know what they do?

Ivynn posted...

like I said earlier, it doesn't need to come up in the story, it's more to help inform how a character perceives the world around them and how they react.

Sure, but that's only important if you're planning to focus a lot on the character and their inner motives and reasoning. Knowing whether or not the character has a particular opinion about wearing a tie only matters if that's going to play into his logic during part of the story.

You can make all that shit up as you go along, just make sure you don't contradict yourself. It's not like you need to write up a whole biography for the character before you write the actual story they're involved in.

Hell, sometimes starting with vague ideas rather than concrete absolutes can lead to better ideas later in the story. Invent the character's traits based on what the story will need from them.

Is art freedom of expression? Is writing an art? Are there rules to art?

/topic

should have been a writer before people started making money off of it

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Knowing whether or not the character has a particular opinion about wearing a tie only matters if that's going to play into his logic during part of the story.

Dude.

FortuneCookie posted...

knowing where a character lives, what's their occupation, what they wear, what their social and economical status are, who they hang out with, and what they do with their free time.

You think these examples are the same?

cuttin_in_farm posted...

I would say if the things TC listed doesnt come up, thats a sign that your characters are shit.

Like, how you gonna have a character that we dont know what they do?

I recently revisited Wayne's World on HBO Max and even something like that checked off all the boxes:

Where the character lives:
His mom's basement. (Suburbia.)

His occupation:
"Let's just say I have a collection of name tags and hair nets."

His wardrobe:
Blue jeans and black sleeveless shirt.

His social status:
Low end in real life, beloved by local TV viewers for his show.

His economic status:
He works fast food -- when he isn't fired -- and can't afford his dream guitar.

Who he hangs out with:
A geek and some stoners.

What he does with his free time:
He drives around with his friends, plays street hockey, hosts a one-hour local TV program from his mom's basement, and watches airplanes land. (If you read between the lines, he has too much free time.)

W_S_C_M posted...

Is art freedom of expression? Is writing an art? Are there rules to art?

/topic

Writing absolutely has its rules. For that matter, so does art.

As the old clich goes, you have to know the rules before you can break them.

FortuneCookie posted...

Writing absolutely has its rules. For that matter, so does art.

It has conventions, not 'rules'

Gobstoppers12 posted...

It has conventions, not 'rules'

It absolutely has rules based upon how humans focus on things and react to them. I'm not a painter or photographer, but I know there are techniques that are used to draw the viewers eye to a certain location or that having an object at the very edge of a canvas or a photograph is a distraction.

FortuneCookie posted...

I'm not a painter or photographer

Are you a writer?

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Are you a writer?

I'm in the process of it.

FortuneCookie posted...

I'm in the process of it.

Do you really find yourself to be in a position to tell other people how they should write?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I'm advocating for people to write their own way. A person should follow their own writing process to explore and discover their own style.

And not that it really counts for anything because it's just for fun, but my fanfiction has been very well received. To the point where users of the Naruto board have mentioned it without knowing I saw them do it.

So although I'm not a paid professional...I have done a lot of writing and received a lot of feedback in both academic and public settings. Most people seem to think I do a decent job.

But again, I'm not trying to tell anybody that their way of writing is wrong. I'm trying to prevent gatekeeping like this from discouraging people or making them doubt themselves:

FortuneCookie posted...

If you can't answer those things, you need to go back to the drawing board.

There's no perfect writing code. Writing is an art form. You can write an entire story about somebody without ever giving them a name. You don't have to mention their clothes. You don't have to mention Jason, their old high school bully.

You can, if that's what you want to convey, but you don't have to.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I'm advocating for people to write their own way. A person should follow their own writing process to explore and discover their own style.

And not that it really counts for anything because it's just for fun, but my fanfiction has been very well received. To the point where users of the Naruto board have mentioned it without knowing I saw them do it.

So although I'm not a paid professional...I have done a lot of writing and received a lot of feedback in both academic and public settings. Most people seem to think I do a decent job.

But again, I'm not trying to tell anybody that their way of writing is wrong. I'm trying to prevent gatekeeping like this from discouraging people or making them doubt themselves:

There's no perfect writing code. Writing is an art form. You can write an entire story about somebody without ever giving them a name. You don't have to mention their clothes. You don't have to mention Jason, their old high school bully.

You can, if that's what you want to convey, but you don't have to.

It helps to know those things even if you don't share them.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

But again, I'm not trying to tell anybody that their way of writing is wrong. I'm trying to prevent gatekeeping like this from discouraging people or making them doubt themselves:

It's the exact opposite, really. I'm encouraging people who are interested in writing to know the ins and outs of what they're writing.

This isn't, "If you can't tell me what your character does for a living, don't even try and count yourself as a writer." This is more, "If you're having trouble figuring out what you should be writing next, try going back and fleshing out the characters a little more." It gets a lot easier to write when you light up the dark areas. It's a motivator when you know exactly who and what you're dealing with.

FortuneCookie posted...

It gets a lot easier to write when you light up the dark areas. It's a motivator when you know exactly who and what you're dealing with.

If you're trying to be encouraging, then it might be better to share these thoughts as part of your process. Identify it as your opinion on the matter. Say something more like: "this is what I do in these situations."

I would avoid telling people to "follow the rules" and "fill out a checklist of miscellaneous background information" as if it's a standardized thing that all writers have to do.

Be mindful of your audience. People with varying levels of skill and confidence might end up reading what you say.

Just saying. Try to avoid ultimatums and gatekeepy word choices. That's what I do when I'm in these situations.

Shitty ass "this 1 simple trick has Hemingway SALTY on god" advice

Gobstoppers12 posted...

If you're trying to be encouraging, then it might be better to share these thoughts as part of your process. Identify it as your opinion on the matter. Say something more like: "this is what I do in these situations."

I would avoid telling people to "follow the rules" and "fill out a checklist of miscellaneous background information" as if it's a standardized thing that all writers have to do.

Be mindful of your audience. People with varying levels of skill and confidence might end up reading what you say.

Just saying. Try to avoid ultimatums and gatekeepy word choices. That's what I do when I'm in these situations.

Fanfiction allows you the freedom to write with all of those details laid out. I'm not discrediting your writing. I'm saying those things are there. You know how the characters dress, who they hang out with, what they do, etc.

You keep trying to skew this as a form of gatekeeping and it isn't. It's just a matter of knowing the ropes. It's like saying that running is essential to being a football player. You need to run to build speed and endurance and because physical running is an actual part of the game no matter which position you play.

Writing fanfiction is a lot different from writing actual fiction. It's very important to develop a character you're building from scratch so they don't feel one-dimensional, and instead feel like actual people.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Not remotely how anyone responded, but okay.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


It's the internet.

FortuneCookie posted...

You keep trying to skew this as a form of gatekeeping and it isn't.

Bro. Read the title. Read the first lines.

You're literally telling people that writing isn't about the story, but is instead about minor details. You're telling people that if they can't answer your laundry list of questions... then they're not actually writing?

It is absolutely a form of gatekeeping.

FortuneCookie posted...

It's like saying that running is essential to being a football player

It isn't at all like saying that, though. For a writer, running is just... putting words on paper/word processor/etc.

If you write, you're writing. It can be poetry, nonfiction, reviews, recipes, opinion pieces, journal entries, gamefaqs.gamespot.com shitposts, etc.

There are many, many forms of writing that aren't original fiction. You're pushing a narrow view and then denying it.

If you're going to say that this topic isn't gatekeeping, you might do well to reword your initial premise.

Because your initial premise is summarized as: "you're not writing unless you're writing my way"

Did you mean it that way? Maybe not. But it's easy to interpret it that way because of your tone and word choice.

So, because you projected hostility into my first post, you're going to continue to regard it as though it had hostile intent behind it. Got it.

FortuneCookie posted...

So, because you projected hostility into my first post

"Being a writer isn't knowing the story highlights, it's knowing where a character lives, what's their occupation," etc. etc.

Your words, not mine. Literally, you start out by telling people what writing isn't...but you're not even correct. Writing can be fixed entirely on the story. A story can be told with absolutely no focus whatsoever on the main character's identity.

Maybe I'm just a little too wary of people who come into a space purporting themselves to be an authority on a subject that I hold pretty dear. I love writing, and I love encouraging people to write.

What I don't love is when people start swinging definitive declarations around like a sledgehammer. I said that writing has conventions, not rules, and your reply was: "It absolutely has rules." That is false. There is no definitive rule set when it comes to writing as a means of self-expression. You do not need to know 'the rules' in order to write. You can write whatever you want, about any subject you choose, focusing on any aspect that resonates with you. Conventions exist that put works into various genres, categories, etc. but none of those conventions are mandatory templates.

There are certainly rules when writing academic papers, news reporting, and other professional-level works, sure...but writing for fun, writing for entertainment, writing for personal documentation/journal/diary purposes...? There are no rules for that. Write what you want and how you want.

I am suggesting for the future that you use more personal and compassionate language when you say things like this. Maybe use more "I feel, I think, I find that" statement lead-ins to soften the severity.

I think it would be best if you resist the urge to tell other people what writing isn't, and maybe instead focus more on telling people what you think is important in your own writing. Characterize it that way, rather than delivering it like some kind of general pro-tip that all writers should be adhering to.

TC, ignore him.

He brought a characters opinions about ties as an example of why your characterization traits arent needed.

Hes disingenuous.

Or dumb.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

TC, ignore him.

The best advice in this topic.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

TC, ignore him.

He brought a characters opinions about ties as an example of why your characterization traits arent needed.

Hes disingenuous.

Or dumb.

This.

FortuneCookie posted...

The best advice in this topic.

Better than yours, at least.