Current Events > I think every game would be better if you had all abilities from the start

(+) Yeah! (+)

It doesn't feel like I "get stronger", it feels like I was denied that ability and finally I can have it back. The fun of the game is using all the things you can do together to make your char feel badass. I've never had fun getting dripfed fun. Just give me all the stuff I can do and let me enjoy it. It's like being in a sandbox and the teacher is like "gotta play with the pale for 3 classes before I give you the shovel". Fuck that, just leave the pale and the shovel and I'll have more fun.

The only time getting an ability later works is if that ability is significantly tied to the plot. Stuff like Celeste's double jump, Kratos, Majora's Mask masks, etc. Those are all significant abilities, plot related, and are seamless because the game still feels complete up until that point. If it's some game like Spiderman, just give me the combo moves right away. I don't wanna just press X, X, X for 2 hours until I can finally buy X, X, X, Y. I've already gotten sick of X,X,X because it's all I could do for hours. Just give both to me. If I had both, I could use each one the amount I want.

That sounds legitimately terrible to me

Why not just have the game skip to the end credits. It's the most logical next step in making games accessible to everyone.

Tsukasa1891 posted...

Why not just have the game skip to the end credits. It's the most logical next step in making games accessible to everyone.

I don't get to enjoy the characters abilities in the end credits. Read what I said, not what you want it to say

I've dropped a ton of games when I feel like I've gotten all the abilities and now all I have left to do is do the same repetitive thing until the credits, so I get bored very fast and drop it.

If I had all the abilities at the start I wouldn't even play the game.

It has to depend on the game. VR is an example where lots of games just don't have progression systems, because the focus is on the virtual sandbox and what you're capable of doing in it (rather than earning what you can do).

A game definitely doesn't NEED a progression system, in most Mario games you have 90% of Mario's movesest from the start besides some sporadic powerups.

play fighting games

Depends on the game. For the Forza Horizon series they basically did that from the 3rd entry onwards. You start with loads of cars and there's far less progression. It is fun though I kind of miss how it was in 2.

I mean this is how a Superman game should be from the start.

That sounds awful

Sounds like you dislike skill trees more than anything which I totally get. I think skill trees have some place in gaming if they offer run changing decisions (closest I can think of is Blasphemous where your skill tree currency is super limited so you need to be super careful about what abilities you pick), but 99% of the time they're just done wrong (IE your example of slightly altering combos).

What I'd like is more games that offer randomizer modes where all the progression abilities/items get put in random spots, and you just have to go through and find them yourself. I'm playing one in Windwaker rn that's amazing, basically all the dungeons are open from the start (outside of things like Tower of the Gods where you need the three pearls and whatnot) and it's probably my favorite 'open world' experience I've had in gaming. It's like an entire game designed around gaming the system; like, I'm out here completing the Earth Temple before even finishing Dragon Roost Cavern

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/1/2/AAYZyTAAEOMY.jpg

Darkfire12 posted...

Sounds like you dislike skill trees more than anything which I totally get. I think skill trees have some place in gaming if they offer run changing decisions (closest I can think of is Blasphemous where your skill tree currency is super limited so you need to be super careful about what abilities you pick), but 99% of the time they're just done wrong (IE your example of slightly altering combos).

Skill trees yeah. Sometimes it's like, get these stealth abilities or get these trap abilities. Why not both? Why can't I just be a stealth trapper walljumping demolitionist? I wanna do everything.

I liked in Link Between Worlds that you could just have the items and do the dungeons you wanted.

SSJKirby posted...

play fighting games

I do

There's some games where this is OK. Donkey Kong '94 (the Game Boy version) made it a point to gradually showcase all of Mario's new moves as you progressed through the game (he has a repertoire in this game similar to what he would eventually have two years later in Mario 64, such as the triple jump and sideways flip, making him far more mobile and acrobatic than he ever was in the original Donkey Kong game) but you could actually do all of those moves right off the bat if you knew how, and many of the early levels, particularly the first 4 levels that are throwbacks to the original arcade DK levels, are ridiculously trivialized with those moves. If you went through the game once not knowing about all the moves Mario can do until the game demonstrates them to you, playing a 2nd time with knowledge of those moves can practically feel like playing an artificial New Game+ mode.

There's other games though that (IMO) don't lend themselves well to this particular format. Modern Zelda games, specifically Link Between Worlds and BotW, more or less give you almost all of your abilities right off the bat, which flies in the face of the traditional Zelda formula -- and, for me at least, takes a significant chunk of the fun out of the game progression. To me, part of the Zelda experience is coming across obstacles/enemies you either can't deal with or at least not deal with in an optimal way, and later finding what you need to bypass the obstacle or easily defeat the foe. Basically, to me Zelda doesn't feel like Zelda without that "Metroidvania" element in it.

Catherine is another example that you have access to all the tech gives you, since it just teaches you ideas how to climb the towers

For action games i agree. I download full save files for the ones that have some type of ng+ so I can enjoy all the abilities early on

That sounds stupid as fuck

It doesn't work. One reason they do this is to not overwhelm new players with too many mechanics and abilities.
Getting new abilities/gadgets/whatever as you progress also keeps us interested in the game.

I literally have tc tagged as "terrible metroidvania opinions". This checks out

Thoughts on SotN?

Tsukasa1891 posted...

Why not just have the game skip to the end credits. It's the most logical next step in making games accessible to everyone.

Some games do have a credits option on the start menu. Oh and we cant forget this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QwuTGmcABc

warlock7735 posted...

I literally have tc tagged as "terrible metroidvania opinions". This checks out

I'm tagging you as "1 dimensional tagger"

Jk lol I'm not that pathetic where I need to tag someone who disagrees with me

Damn_Underscore posted...

Thoughts on SotN?

The best part of the game is the opening sequence with Richter. SotN has a cool aesthetic and vibe and controls good enough but that's about it. Aside from the typical Metroidvania problems, I thought the castle going upside down was stupid af. It clearly was not designed to be played upside down since a lot of the jumps are incredibly annoying forcing you to change into the bat and stuff. The clock being that specific time needed to progress felt kinda arbitrary. Could've used more warp points.

I will say that the shield+rod combo was so ridiculously broken that it made the game enjoyable. Not only because I could just melt everything, but the fact that it's even in there is just like, wtf lol.

The only problem is they unlock you too far towards the end of the game. Like in persona, you only get to use a character for one dungeon before the game ends.

I'd prefer you unlock all your abilities around 60% into the game.

Darkfire12 posted...

What I'd like is more games that offer randomizer modes

You'd think there would be more games with this as official releases with how popular they are.

Nah that sounds fuckin' awful for many games given that growth is a part of the game's design.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

This