Current Events > Canadian man arrested for killing man who broke into his home

(+) Yeah! (+)

On February 19, 2023, at approximately 5:00 am, a group of suspects approached a house on Gibson Crescent in Milton. It is believed that these individuals were intent on committing a robbery at this home. Upon entering the residence, they were confronted by an occupant and a number of gunshots were fired within the home. One individual was pronounced deceased at the scene, while two other individuals were arrested when police arrived.
Halton Police have laid the following charges in relation to this incident:
Ali Mian (22) of Milton one count of 2nd Degree Murder
Romario Clarke (20) of Oshawa one count of Break and Enter, and one count of Unauthorized Possession of a Firearm
Both are next scheduled to appear in Milton Court on February 21, 2023.
The identity of the homicide victim has not been confirmed as of yet. This investigation is ongoing and detectives are looking for information on three outstanding suspects that fled the scene in a white vehicle. The vehicle is believed to be a light-coloured Dodge Charger with a sunroof and black wheels. A photo of this vehicle is attached.
Anyone with information about this incident is asked to call the Homicide Tip Line at 905-825-4776.

https://www.haltonpolice.ca/en/news/shooting-investigation-in-milton.aspx

Canada's self defense laws are stupid. Seriously need a reform

What are you supposed to do in places like that?

Hide in the cuck closet and hope that the intruder doesnt trip and get hurt so they dont sue you?

Flauros posted...

What are you supposed to do in places like that?

Run away and hope they don't shoot you in the back?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Yeah, but do you want to rely on that? I wouldnt.

I'm going to guess that there's more to this otherwise they don't have much of a case

M_Live posted...

Yeah but in all seriousness, what exactly was this guy supposed to do? As in, what is the expectation from the police or whomever? Was he genuinely supposed to let them rob his house or

Is there even more to this story? Just hearing that he was arrested doesn't tell us anything about what happened.

If we die, we die

Life isn't some special thing, new people get made all the time

/s

Don't get your home broken into. Seems pretty simple

Of course there could be more to this story, but just from what we hear this is stupid. America is nuts, but these kind of cases here and in other countries are just the complete opposite way of awfulness and it's almost that criminals have more rights and protections than victims.

I also don't see why defending one's property is just so awful and unacceptable either. Not saying we should just be able to murder anyone who walks in your house, but the idea in and of itself is fine. You work hard and save up money and buy a couple of nice things, but the minute some dirt bag wants them you have to give them up?

Even if cops eventually catch the burglars, there's a big chance you're still never getting your stuff back. And what about items that could be seen as priceless like heirlooms and such. You can't just replace those. Speaking of that, with how awful wages and the economy are and how people get screwed by insurance and such, saying "well you can just buy another one" is kinda awful itself. Sort of reeks of privilege in a way.

Just guessing but since they're charging him with 2nd degree murder and not manslaughter it's possible he executed him or shot him after disabling him?

I think if he had shot him to defend himself and he died the most they could go for is manslaughter charges.

This is total bullshit. Any criminal piece of shit that breaks into someone's house deserves whatever happens to them. For fuck sake "oh please take anything you want while I watch you like a little bitch. Want to rape and kill my wife afterwards? Sure go ahead!" I'll still be here like the little bitch fucking Trudeau wants everyone to be. Gotta coddle the fucking criminal's after all. Fuck that shit

Whether or not the intruder deserved it is completely subjective and not relevant to what the law actually says you can do

If someone is robbing your house you get to a safe location and call the police. Never engage the intruder. It is not your job to play executioner.

Beveren_Rabbit posted...

If someone is robbing your house you get to a safe location and call the police. Never engage the intruder. It is not your job to play executioner.

Self defense is not execution.

Time for people to break him out if the officials don't fix this.

The primary tenet of self defense in Canada is "equivalent force".
If he shot first, or kept shooting while they were trying to flee, he's legally in the wrong.
If they're charging him with Murder 2, there's a reason for it.
It could also be a placeholder while they investigate, and hey could be completely exonerated.

Flauros posted...

What are you supposed to do in places like that?

Hide in the cuck closet and hope that the intruder doesnt trip and get hurt so they dont sue you?

Hol'up. Why are we assuming he has a cuck closet?

Simon_Gruber posted...

Ali Mian (22) of Milton one count of 2nd Degree Murder

If their 2nd degree murder statutes are the same as the US that means "intentional-but-unplanned homicide", which is a far fucking ways away from defending your house from someone who broke into it.

fan357 posted...

Self defense is not execution.

In Canada it is.

Cant wait to get out of here.

meestermj posted...

The primary tenet of self defense in Canada is "equivalent force".
If he shot first, or kept shooting while they were trying to flee, he's legally in the wrong.
If they're charging him with Murder 2, there's a reason for it.
It could also be a placeholder while they investigate, and hey could be completely exonerated.

Yeah no. It doesn't matter if that's the law. He has a right to defend himself and his property and incompetent lawmakers don't get to say otherwise.

Beveren_Rabbit posted...

If someone is robbing your house you get to a safe location and call the police. Never engage the intruder. It is not your job to play executioner.

what if my safe location is my house and its being broken into.

SenlinDescends posted...

Yeah no. It doesn't matter if that's the law. He has a right to defend himself and his property and incompetent lawmakers don't get to say otherwise.

It literally does matter that it's the law.
Whether it's morally questionable or not, he could very well have broken the law.
And regardless of if you agree with a law or not, you still have to follow them or face consequences.

I am specifically not stating my personal stance on the matter, just stating facts about the situation.

meestermj posted...

It literally does matter that it's the law.
Whether it's morally questionable or not, he could very well have broken the law.
And regardless of if you agree with a law or not, you still have to follow them or face consequences.

I am specifically not stating my personal stance on the matter, just stating facts about the situation.

No, it literally doesn't. Personal rights supercede legal ones. The courts can fuck off.

SenlinDescends posted...

No, it literally doesn't. Personal rights supercede legal ones. The courts can fuck off.

So you're a libertarian and maybe even a SC.
Got it, I won't argue with that then.

I get that there's some subjectivity with regards to the necessity of lethal force but in the very least the homeowner should not be charged until such time that an investigation has concluded that the robber's death came after a point where they no longer presented a threat.

meestermj posted...

So you're a libertarian and maybe even a SC.
Got it, I won't argue with that then.

Nah, I'm just right and not a coward.

SenlinDescends posted...

Nah, I'm just right and not a coward.

Your arguments are literally straight from the libertarian handbook.
Nothing wrong with that, but I make it a point not to argue with people who literally refuse to see any point except their own.

Southernfatman posted...

Of course there could be more to this story, but just from what we hear this is stupid. America is nuts, but these kind of cases here and in other countries are just the complete opposite way of awfulness and it's almost that criminals have more rights and protections than victims.

I also don't see why defending one's property is just so awful and unacceptable either. Not saying we should just be able to murder anyone who walks in your house, but the idea in and of itself is fine. You work hard and save up money and buy a couple of nice things, but the minute some dirt bag wants them you have to give them up?

Even if cops eventually catch the burglars, there's a big chance you're still never getting your stuff back. And what about items that could be seen as priceless like heirlooms and such. You can't just replace those. Speaking of that, with how awful wages and the economy are and how people get screwed by insurance and such, saying "well you can just buy another one" is kinda awful itself. Sort of reeks of privilege in a way.

All of this.

Fuck thieves. I value my "replaceable" possessions over the life of a worthless thief.

meestermj posted...

Your arguments are literally straight from the libertarian handbook.
Nothing wrong with that, but I make it a point not to argue with people who literally refuse to see any point except their own.

I see your point. It's just cowardice. Law is not morality. Law is sometimes wrong. And in those cases, you should be standing against it. Don't let Canada become what the US has.

SenlinDescends posted...

I see your point. It's just cowardice. Law is not morality. Law is sometimes wrong. And in those cases, you should be standing against it. Don't let Canada become what the US has.

See, it's impossible to have any sort of reasonable discourse when a person's stance is "I'm right, you're wrong, and no point besides mine can ever be right."
It's just arguing with a fence post.

Beveren_Rabbit posted...

If someone is robbing your house you get to a safe location and call the police. Never engage the intruder. It is not your job to play executioner.

Assuming that the police even come in time or at all.

Whole lot of very strong opinions on something that we have next to 0 information on.

Heineken14 posted...

Whole lot of very strong opinions on something that we have next to 0 information on.

The Canadians in this topic are reacting like this kind of outcome is in line with Canadian statutes that need to be changed. So that's something.

meestermj posted...

See, it's impossible to have any sort of reasonable discourse when a person's stance is "I'm right, you're wrong, and no point besides mine can ever be right."
It's just arguing with a fence post.

See you misunderstand the situation. I'm down to listen to other stances. But when your stance is "you don't have a right to defend yourself" it isn't worth listening to.

It's not that only my way is right, it's that your way is horribly wrong.

Solid_Sonic posted...

The Canadians in this topic are reacting like this kind of outcome is in line with Canadian statutes that need to be changed. So that's something.

Not necessarily. You could get a bunch of Americans crying about the same exact scenario happening here. Even throw in "spilling coffee on yourself" for good measure.

SenlinDescends posted...

See you misunderstand the situation. I'm down to listen to other stances. But when your stance is "you don't have a right to defend yourself" it isn't worth listening to.

It's not that only my way is right, it's that your way is horribly wrong.

You ascribe to moral absolutism and that's fine.
I don't. There isn't a single moral code that's 100% correct and there is almost always room to discuss.
I didn't express a stance, only stated what the law is and that regardless if we agree with it or not, we have to follow it.
I never said we shouldn't work to change laws we disagree with.
I have not once stated my personal stance in this, because it's not relevant.

Found another article with a little more detail on what happened, including that his mother lives with him too and was attacked by the robbers.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/man-22-charged-with-murder-after-fatally-shooting-suspect-who-tried-to-rob-his-house-lawyer-says-1.6281531

A 22-year-old is facing murder charges after he shot and killed a man who was allegedly attempting to rob his family home in Milton, Ont., his lawyer says.
The incident happened on Feb. 19 at about 5 a.m. at a residence on Gibson Crescent, which is near Ontario Street South and Louis St. Laurent Avenue
According to Halton Regional Police Service, a group of suspects intent on committing a robbery approached the house in question.
Once inside, they were reportedly confronted by an occupant and a number of gunshots were then fired within the home. A man was pronounced dead at the scene.
Ali Mian, who lives in the home with his single mother, is now facing second-degree murder charges, his lawyer says.
In a statement provided to CP24, criminal lawyer Jag Virk said his client "shot at an intruder that broke into his home and attacked his mother."
"He is a registered firearm owner and used his gun legally against an armed intruder," Virk said. "He shouldn't be charged with murder for protecting his mother from someone that broke into his home."
Virk said Mians intention was "not to kill the intruder, he only shot at him once."
Halton police said the investigation ongoing and that detectives are currently looking for information pertaining to three outstanding suspects who they said fled the scene in a light-coloured Dodge Charger with a sunroof and black wheels.
Romario Clarke, 20, was also arrested when officers when arrived at the scene. He has been charged with one count of break and enter and unauthorized possession of a firearm.
On Sunday, investigators said the shooting was isolated to the home and appears to be targeted. They also advised residents that they should expect to see a continued police presence in the area, as the investigation is underway.

fan357 posted...

Self defense is not execution.

Self defense isn't execution but killing someone after they're no longer a threat certainly is. You have every right to defend yourself but if you go further when you're no longer in imminent danger it's just murder.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Yet they arrested the man.

hope anyone who hates america thinks about this every time they say they hate it here

meestermj posted...

The primary tenet of self defense in Canada is "equivalent force".
If he shot first, or kept shooting while they were trying to flee, he's legally in the wrong.
If they're charging him with Murder 2, there's a reason for it.
It could also be a placeholder while they investigate, and hey could be completely exonerated.

So you have to be shot at first before defending yourself? That is beyond stupid.

Shit like that is dumb. Once the person is in your house, they are a threat to you. As long as you properly stop once they are incapacitated or fleeing, it should be 100% up to you how you deal with the threat.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


If someone breaks into your home, they are a lethal threat.

ArchNemo posted...

Self defense isn't execution but killing someone after they're no longer a threat certainly is. You have every right to defend yourself but if you go further when you're no longer in imminent danger it's just murder.

Yeah I've read stories where people got arrested for shooting a burglar after the burglar fled the home. Just because someone breaks in doesn't mean you just get to do whatever you want

"You broke from Canadian etiquette. You should have offered him warmth and bacon."