Current Events > Ooh boy, so Hogwart's Legacy really runs with the whole 'Goblins are Jews' thing

(+) Yeah! (+)

thronedfire2 posted...

is it because he looks more humanoid? the goblins in the Warcraft series, for example, look just like that but more exaggerated(bigger ears and bright green skin) and I've never heard anyone say they're trying to insult Jewish people. and they love money way more than the goblins in HP do

The real reason is that people don't like JKR. that's the difference. As soon as people decided JKR is problematic, for admittedly valid reasons, they are now trying to find more things to find problematic os they can complain harder, it's not enough that she is anti-trans, she must also be antisemitic and racist too

Smashingpmkns posted...

There are many versions of the trope. Spiritual outsider, old and wise, noble and good, whole purpose is to help the white MC.

The hallmark of a magical n-word is that they possess magical powers that they use exclusively for the benefit of the white characters while themselves and everyone around them don't benefit from those magical powers at all. You may feel some sort of way about Shacklebolt being incapable of responding to the rise of the Death Eaters and Voldemort, but that's an indictment against the Wizarding world as a whole and not specifically because of Shacklebolt. Besides, dude was head of the Ministry of Magic. A magical n-word would have been the janitor.

And also, Kingsley Shacklebolt's name is badass af. It's right up there with goddamn Mace Windu or Shaft. You don't look at those names without context and only picture fools and losers.

Also usually the magical trope is in a world where NOT EVERYBODY IS MAGIC lol, that's a pretty important difference.

The diff of Harry Potter Goblins and say Warcraft is Harry Potter has them dress in suits with monocles and run banks....

In warcraft goblins are like mechanics. Don't see how that relates to a stereotype.

Did a Jewish guy make the Hinderberg? I remember goblins in old warcraft in those balloons.

A_Good_Boy posted...

And also, Kingsley Shacklebolt's name is badass af. It's right up there with goddamn Mace Windu or Shaft. You don't look at those names without context and only picture fools and losers.

I assumed an ancestor of his used magic to trap lightning the first time I heard it and that's where they got the name like our real world names Baker and Smith.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Also usually the magical trope is in a world where NOT EVERYBODY IS MAGIC lol, that's a pretty important difference.

It's funny because the alternative he's suggesting for Kingsley to not be the magical [word] trope is to have him be some useless character with no importance or anything significant about him. Instead Rowling (not a defense of everything else) made him a very important character. The being "offended on behalf of black people" more often than not loops back around to the person doing that coming off as looking kinda racist themselves

There's also a little bump in the narrative where JK Rowling literally created a faction of Nazi wizards which are explicitly the bad guys who get defeated in the end. Some mixed messaging here lol.

Shacklebolt could be positive like he bolts the shackles of life or blasts them open with lightning.

Or it could be racist as in JK was like hmmm what word goes well with a black person.....

Before she probably got the benefit of doubt.

crazygamer21 posted...

And there it is. I figured you were a disingenuous troll. Have a nice day.

What?

Fun fact: Fettmilch is German for "fat milk"

"I have zero media literacy, you're the racist one" okay lol

TheSavageDragon posted...

I assumed an ancestor of his used magic to trap lightning the first time I heard it and that's where they got the name like our real world names Baker and Smith.

That's where I thought the name came from too.

Smashingpmkns posted...

"I'm fighting the good fight and taking offense on behalf of black peoplet, so don't think too hard about all of the moronic leaps in logic I'm taking"

It's okay king u can rest

MacadamianNut3 posted...

It's okay king u can rest

The franchise is 4th grade level reading man just give it a shot one more time. Or better yet, don't be a Harry Potter adult.

The controversy around this game is so obviously manufactured.

Smashingpmkns posted...

The franchise is 4th grade level reading man just give it a shot one more time. Or better yet, don't be a Harry Potter adult.

Well at least you dropped the stupid magical [word] argument so this is progress. I'm totally fine with this

Nope he still fits the trope.

I don't understand why a Nazi would create a bunch of Nazis in her story, clearly moralize them as evil antagonists, and have them be embarassingly defeated in the end. Seems like a strange choice for a Nazi.

Smashingpmkns posted...

The franchise is 4th grade level reading man just give it a shot one more time. Or better yet, don't be a Harry Potter adult.

I like how almost everyone outraged about this game eventually falls into "lol adults like kids things. so pathetic" like they're 60 years old or bullies from the 1980s.

hockeybub89 posted...

I like how almost everyone outrage about this game eventually falls into "lol adults like kids things. so pathetic" like they're 60 years old or bullies from the 1980s.

On a video game forum no less. The thing every boomer still thinks is just for kids.

Smashingpmkns posted...

"I have zero media literacy, you're the racist one" okay lol

Good of you to admit it.

Smashingpmkns posted...

Nope he still fits the trope.

And this is a good example of why people are going to largely dismiss the points being brought up in the Twitter posts this topic is about. Because the slacktivist types always go on this tinfoil hat like journey to make a point and when somebody says it's clearly wrong and reaching they just double down on it. Like you still not grasping the Magical [word] trope even though there's a eli5 article for it on wikipedia that's easy to read.

That collaborative twitter thread could very well be entirely correct, but after years of shit like this people in general have grown tired of it and will go into reading it already being super skeptical. It's kinda crazy how you can't see that continuing doing the same shit just hurts the cases where actually valid points are being made. But it's w/e, you think you're right so good 4 u

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Well, that is illuminating.

hockeybub89 posted...

I like how almost everyone outraged about this game eventually falls into "lol adults like kids things. so pathetic" like they're 60 years old or bullies from the 1980s.

Bro you've spent the past month defending your decision to buy this game like how boomers defend Chik-Fil-A lol

hockeybub89 posted...

I like how almost everyone outraged about this game eventually falls into "lol adults like kids things. so pathetic" like they're 60 years old or bullies from the 1980s.

Yeah, I don't really get it. There's a level of smugness to with it, even though I know a few of those users are enjoyers of "kid-friendly" franchises.

Smashingpmkns posted...

Since you're a media expert and all. Just answer my question above, why would a Nazi make the villains of her book series Nazis?

COVxy posted...

Since you're a media expert and all. Just answer my question above, why would a Nazi make the villains of her book series Nazis?

1. I didn't call her a Nazi, I called her an anti-semite.
2. Do you think Americans during WWII weren't also anti-semitic?

Smashingpmkn already admitted he was a troll when it's anything Harry Potter related. You shouldn't take him seriously.

This seems like a hard reach to find something to be outraged about.

Smashingpmkns posted...

1. I didn't call her a Nazi, I called her an anti-semite.
2. Do you think Americans during WWII weren't also anti-semitic?

Dude. The whole mudblood thing is an obvious allusion to mischling, which is clearly an anti-semitic concept.

I think it would be weird for someone to make a story which obviously trashes the ideals of anti-semites, with pretty direct references to these violent anti-semitic terms, and then "sneak" in some anti-semitism through the goblins.

COVxy posted...

Dude. The whole mudblood thing is an obvious allusion to mischling, which is clearly an anti-semetic concept.

I think it would be weird for someone to make a story which obviously trashes the ideals of anti-semites, with pretty direct references to these violent anti-semetic terms, and then "sneak" in some anti-semetism through the goblins.

We're talking about the same author who set up an "anyone can be a wizard, even a poor kid living in a closet" story and then went back on that with "oops nope sorry you gotta be an elite with special blood".

COVxy posted...

Dude. The whole mudblood thing is an obvious allusion to mischling, which is clearly an anti-semitic concept.

I think it would be weird for someone to make a story which obviously trashes the ideals of anti-semites, with pretty direct references to these violent anti-semitic terms, and then "sneak" in some anti-semitism through the goblins.

Not really. Its condemning what the Nazis did while still using some anti-Semitic traits for her goblins. Both things can happen. Its not inconsistent for a flawed human to do both at the same time.

Ragnarider posted...

We're talking about the same author who set up an "anyone can be a wizard, even a poor kid living in a closet" story and then went back on that with "oops nope sorry you gotta be an elite with special blood".

So wizards supposed to be the ubermensch by the end of the series?

creativerealms posted...

Not really. Its condemning what the Nazis did while still using some anti-Semitic traits for her goblins. Both things can happen. Its not inconsistent for a flawed human to do both at the same time.

Seems far more likely in story where the premise is essentially "nazis are bad", that the goblins traits come from a holdover from centries of fantasy lore, and not a purposeful derogatory depiction of jewish people.

Ragnarider posted...

We're talking about the same author who set up an "anyone can be a wizard, even a poor kid living in a closet" story and then went back on that with "oops nope sorry you gotta be an elite with special blood".

That is a plot element that most writers screw up. As the story becomes more and more grand, many writers end up going the "chosen one" route.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

And that's completely fine with me. Thanks for correcting my ignorance on TES. I've never really dug into more than a fairly surface level understanding of Skyrim

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Lol

Lefties just be reaching and reaching after taking massive L's constantly.

I'm not gonna read the whole topic but... it would stand to reason that any major political event that takes place in the world of HP would have some involvement with the Wizarding World. Like the Second World War coinciding with a bunch of Wizarding World stuff.

Bet you in the HP World, the American Civil War had some magical elements to it and factions working for one side or the other.

They are PART of the world, integrated into it. They hide their existence as much as they can, but they are just as part of world historical events as Muggles are.

FigureOfSpeech posted...

Well it's not a tuba, clarinet, flute, bassoon or part of a narwhal... how many types of horns do you think it is?

There are hundreds, my boy. Think Jews invented horns or something?

The 1612 part though, I cant really get around.

Near as I can tell, the whole "Goblins in HP are anti-semitic" originates from Jon Stewart, who in the next day said:

I do not think J.K. Rowling is anti-Semitic. I did not accuse her of being anti-Semitic. I do not think the Harry Potter movies are anti-Semitic. I really love the Harry Potter movies, probably too much for a gentleman of my considerable age I cannot stress this enough. I am not accusing J.K. Rowling of being anti-Semitic. She need not answer to any of it. I dont want the Harry Potter movies censored in any way. It was a lighthearted conversation. Get a fucking grip!

In the following days, many people from Jewish advocacy groups spoke up:

"Dave Rich, the director of policy for the UK-based Jewish nonprofit Community Security Trust, tweeted that sometimes a goblin is just a goblin.

Rich told the Hollywood Reporter that he does not believe Rowling is an antisemite or is responsible for creating antisemitic caricatures. There is nothing in her record to suggest that she holds antisemitic views: quite the opposite in fact as she has spoken out consistently and repeatedly in support of the Jewish community and against antisemitism.

David Baddiel, a British Jewish comedian and prominent voice against antisemitism, also weighed in.
The goblins in Harry Potter need to be seen not in a simplistic #teamRowling vs #antiteamRowling way but in a many-centuries long, deeply subconsciously embedded cultural context, he tweeted.

Baddiel cited a portion of his recent book, Jews Dont Count, noting that for centuries Jews were routinely painted and sculpted as gargoyles and devils. Our artistic tradition look at Punch & Judy, look at witches, look at pantomime, look at Bond villians depicts evil as swarthy and hook-nosed.

I didn't watch the movie cuz it looked like shit but i read that it was implied that the villainous Grindlewald character would have stopped the holocaust lol just seems like Rowling should stop writing about Jewish things, or just stop writing all together.

I am not accusing J.K. Rowling of being anti-Semitic

Boy looking back, Jon Stewart sure was off the mark on that one.

It's... a horn...

I wish this had gone the same way as Tolkien did when he created dwarves in the hobbit.

People pointed out how it had some anti Semitic tropes, so when LotR dropped he flipped all that on its head.

Ragnarider posted...

We're talking about the same author who set up an "anyone can be a wizard, even a poor kid living in a closet" story and then went back on that with "oops nope sorry you gotta be an elite with special blood".

The only people who think that wizards have to be an elite with special blood are treated as the scum of the Earth in the books, though.

In fact, most of the wizarding "elite" tend to suffer for their vanity and callousness.