Current Events > Schools are grappling with teen boys brainwashed by Andrew Tate

(+) Yeah! (+)

Dave Bautista would be a good male role model

Revelation34 posted...

Because it isn't true and something he made up. Your algorithm is determined by shit you're already looking up. It rarely ever shows stuff on the opposite spectrum.

Remove the space. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/22/ twitter-admits-bias-in-algorithm-for-rightwing-politicians-and-news-outlets
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/26/facebook-conservatives-2020-421146
https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/01/29/276000/a-study-of-youtube-comments-shows-how-its-turning-people-onto-the-alt-right/

Glob posted...

Toxic masculinity is an accurate term.

In fact, the term implies that there is also non-toxic masculinity. Im a man, and I dont feel attacked by the concept or name of toxic masculinity being discussed. If you do, that says more about you than it does about anybody else.

Funkydog posted...

The people who complain would likely complain no matter what you called it. The fact they can't understand that by "toxic X" also means a "Non toxic X" also exists just shows what it's called was never the actual issue.

I always wonder what a form of "non-toxic" masculinity is to people who say this, because I've never seen it elaborated upon. What's something done primarily by men that's ok to you

Prismsblade posted...

Such as?

Mr Rogers?

Terry Crews, despite what this place thinks of him

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

I always wonder what a form of "non-toxic" masculinity is to people who say this, because I've never seen it elaborated upon. What's something done primarily by men that's ok to you

Endurance
Enrichment
Motivation
Guidance
Defense

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

they aren't going to let the left have a voice, and they will manipulate the algorithm right quick if need be. "Messaging" is only going to do so much.

All this is missing is the echo brackets and it reads exactly like a 4chan post, lol.

Did you ever consider maybe the reason that TYT/Humanist Report/etc. videos only get like a fifth the views of a Crowder vid is because they just aren't as engaging

SpiritSephiroth posted...

The shit kids did in my school when I was younger makes this look like nothing >_>

This.

Though the element of internet brainwashing wasn't there. Any awful thing that happened at school was isolated and wasn't something churning like a collective bowel movement across western school systems and young men as a whole.

It's actually kind of interesting as it seems to have arisen in response to recent progressive efforts and the general populations ham handed execution of said efforts.

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

All this is missing is the echo brackets and it reads exactly like a 4chan post, lol.

it's right though

Did you ever consider maybe the reason that TYT/Humanist Report/etc. videos only get like a fifth the views of a Crowder vid is because they just aren't as engaging

that is, again, a function of the way social media algorithms work

People like Andrew Tate is a symptom of a larger problem, not the problem itself. You get rid of Andrew Tate and then you get the next scam artist looking to prey on young men who are single and lonely (possibly frustrated virgin). The bigger issue is the fact that a lot of these men are falling for these scam artists so easily is because there's a lot of men problems that unfortunately don't get addressed on a massive scale, and gender roles being so baked into our society is mostly to blame.

To give an example, my city tried to solve the issue with male suicides and mental health. So they created a program that costs millions to create a mental health facility designed to specifically target men. A lot of men got prescribed to go, the issue comes in a lot of folds like low attendance rate, low retention rate, men refusing to listen to advice, men being embarassed to go to the facility, etc. The program barely lasted 3 years before it was concluded that the program was a waste of money and instead turned the facility into a general mental health one. 80% of attendance are women while less than 20% are men. The biggest reason for the failure is that many men still see seeking help as a weakness, which is unfortunate that the idea is so baked into our partriarchy is ultimately the biggest reason I still see men's mental health not being a "big issue" because a lot of men don't see it as an issue. I remember hearing a lot of times as a kid/teenager to "man up".

averagejoel posted...

that is, again, a function of the way social media algorithms work

No it isn't, Crowder's content is entirely different. The difference in views is much more simply explained by this than by conspiracy theory, as is usually the case.

Prestoff posted...

People like Andrew Tate is a symptom of a larger problem, not the problem itself. You get rid of Andrew Tate and then you get the next scam artist looking to prey on young men who are single and lonely (possibly frustrated virgin). The bigger issue is the fact that a lot of these men are falling for these scam artists so easily is because there's a lot of men problems that unfortunately don't get addressed on a massive scale, and gender roles being so baked into our society is mostly to blame.

To give an example, my city tried to solve the issue with male suicides and mental health. So they created a program that costs millions to create a mental health facility designed to specifically target men. A lot of men got prescribed to go, the issue comes in a lot of folds like low attendance rate, low retention rate, men refusing to listen to advice, men being embarassed to go to the facility, etc. The program barely lasted 3 years before it was concluded that the program was a waste of money and instead turned the facility into a general mental health one. 80% of attendance are women while less than 20% are men. The biggest reason for the failure is that many men still see seeking help as a weakness, which is unfortunate that the idea is so baked into our partriarchy is ultimately the biggest reason I still see men's mental health not being a "big issue" because a lot of men don't see it as an issue. I remember hearing a lot of times as a kid/teenager to "man up".

Yeah. I, like a billion other young men, grew up thinking it was weakness to look for help. I was told it was. My father is a strict military man and he never cared that I may have issues with depression or anxiety. I was always told to suck it up and be a man

That still lingers in me some

Probably not as big of an issue as people think it is or wish it to be. This reminds me of panics from the 80s and 90s

Michael_Booth posted...

Not just expelled. That's hate speech, should get at least 5-10 years in prison.

Boy, y'all sure do know how to make a situation far more worse than it already is.

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

No it isn't, Crowder's content is entirely different. The difference in views is much more simply explained by this than by conspiracy theory, as is usually the case.

it's not a conspiracy theory though

averagejoel posted...

it's not a conspiracy theory though

Proof?

Smackems posted...

Yeah. I, like a billion other young men, grew up thinking it was weakness to look for help. I was told it was. My father is a strict military man and he never cared that I may have issues with depression or anxiety. I was always told to suck it up and be a man

That still lingers in me some

Man, I grew up raised by women and am fairly in touch with my emotions.. But despite that whenever I make myself vulnerable I feel as if people treat me differently.

CyricZ posted...

Endurance
Enrichment
Motivation
Guidance
Defense

I would add in Protection and Provision, as well.

Wait, are the boys actually doing anything illegal or maybe ganging up and beating up other students, or are the teachers just mad because they arent answering questions the way they want them (the boys) to?

The MMAS kid is why they are grappling with this?

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

Proof?

these links were posted elsewhere in the topic (specifically, posts 153 and 112)

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/26/facebook-conservatives-2020-421146
https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/01/29/276000/a-study-of-youtube-comments-shows-how-its-turning-people-onto-the-alt-right/

you have to remove a space for these two because of gamefaqs' weird character limit thing:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/22/22740703/ twitter-algorithm-right-wing-amplification-study

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/22/ twitter-admits-bias-in-algorithm-for-rightwing-politicians-and-news-outlets

BettyWhite posted...

Man, I grew up raised by women and am fairly in touch with my emotions.. But despite that whenever I make myself vulnerable I feel as if people treat me differently.

Because that aversion to weakness doesn't just come from the self, but from others as well. That stigma is rooted deeply into society

How is this any different than the relentless stream of idolatry of misogynistic rappers?

Im not condemning rap music, by the way. I love it.

But to say that Andrew Tate has somehow had this groundbreaking impact on our youth, but years and years of songs about pushing women into sex work, selling drugs, killing cops, etc. has had zero effect seems disingenuous.

What makes him different? Is it that he does this shit under the guise of teaching guys how to get women, and not as art?

Patchwork posted...

How is this any different than the relentless stream of idolatry of misogynistic rappers?

Im not condemning rap music, by the way. I love it.

But to say that Andrew Tate has somehow had this groundbreaking impact on our youth, but years and years of songs about pushing women into sex work, selling drugs, killing cops, etc. has had zero effect seems disingenuous.

What makes him different? Is it that he does this shit under the guise of teaching guys how to get women, and not as art?

People haven't developed their entire identity over a rap song.

People are developing their entire identity over people like Tate.

Patchwork posted...

How is this any different than the relentless stream of idolatry of misogynistic rappers?

Im not condemning rap music, by the way. I love it.

But to say that Andrew Tate has somehow had this groundbreaking impact on our youth, but years and years of songs about pushing women into sex work, selling drugs, killing cops, etc. has had zero effect seems disingenuous.

What makes him different? Is it that he does this shit under the guise of teaching guys how to get women, and not as art?

The difference is that rap music isn't meant to be taken as educational. It's entertainment and not supposed to be seen as a way to live your life, regardless how some may take it.

What Tate is doing is teaching this as a way of life, specifically. He's directly stating this is how one should act.

MarthGoomba posted...

Mr Rogers?

A lot of the kids watching Andrew Tate were born after Mr Rogers died.

Tmaster148 posted...

People haven't developed their entire identity over a rap song.

People are developing their entire identity over people like Tate.

I think plenty of people develop their entire identity from rap music, from not snitching to how they speak to how they treat women to the allure of the quick money of the drug trade.

lolife67 posted...

The difference is that rap music isn't meant to be taken as educational. It's entertainment and not supposed to be seen as a way to live your life, regardless how some may take it.

What Tate is doing is teaching this as a way of life, specifically. He's directly stating this is how one should act.

So, the distinction is the purpose of the product. Thats sensible. Id think you could trace more youth behavioral issues to rap music than Tate, but Im not in schools these days so I have no idea what theyre seeing from these kids.

I do deal with troubled kids through work on a daily basis, and none of them have ever mentioned Tate. But thats just my personal experience, so its not worth much more than that.

averagejoel posted...

these links were posted elsewhere in the topic (specifically, posts 153 and 112)

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/26/facebook-conservatives-2020-421146
https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/01/29/276000/a-study-of-youtube-comments-shows-how-its-turning-people-onto-the-alt-right/

you have to remove a space for these two because of gamefaqs' weird character limit thing:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/22/22740703/ twitter-algorithm-right-wing-amplification-study

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/22/ twitter-admits-bias-in-algorithm-for-rightwing-politicians-and-news-outlets

The first link says exactly what I said, which is that the right wing is more engaging

Patchwork posted...

How is this any different than the relentless stream of idolatry of misogynistic rappers?

Im not condemning rap music, by the way. I love it.

But to say that Andrew Tate has somehow had this groundbreaking impact on our youth, but years and years of songs about pushing women into sex work, selling drugs, killing cops, etc. has had zero effect seems disingenuous.

What makes him different? Is it that he does this shit under the guise of teaching guys how to get women, and not as art?

Andrew Tate is the current excuse, its important to always have an excuse. 12 months ago nobody knew who Andrew Tate was. In fact he got introduced to young boys by all of the good guy streamers debating him and clipping his awful videos for views(money).

Fony posted...

Andrew Tate is the current excuse, its important to always have an excuse.

Yes. They used to claim Dungeons and Dragons would turn people into Satan-worshipping delinquents and of course video games cause school shootings. And these guys are either being disingenuous about rap or are too young to remember that it was being blamed for almost everything wrong with the youth, considering a lot of young people (especially boys) idolize rappers, wear their merch, and know their lyrics by heart.

Fony posted...

Andrew Tate is the current excuse, its important to always have an excuse. 12 months ago nobody knew who Andrew Tate was. In fact he got introduced to young boys by all of the good guy streamers debating him and clipping his awful videos for views(money).

I dont think this is accurate. Yes, there have been moral panic moments in the past and many of them were absolutely ridiculous. Rock music or dungeons and dragons or whatever arent going to turn your children into bad people and they were never intended to.

However, Tate is a manifestation of the manosphere and the impact of that is undeniably huge. It does warp young minds because that is actually what it sets out to do. It does not create fans and followers through delivering quality content, but instead manipulates young people by playing on their insecurities and feelings of failure.

I grew up with guys like Tucker Max and Maddox, but knew better than to fucking idolize them

what makes largely white, surban working/middle susceptible to guys like tate and other groups of young men not?

Glob posted...

It does warp young minds because that is actually what it sets out to do.

Exactly. Comparing him to something like video games or DnD is completely missing to very obvious difference.

I really wish people could prop up one group without shitting on another. Young men pretty much got abandoned by progressives besides messages like "don't be toxic." Everything else has been mostly negative. Losers like tate are the direct result of just ignoring a group that could be on your side. There are no content creators I've heard of that are designed as "help young men" channels that aren't wacko right wing extremists

Cheater87 posted...

They are doing their best to fix them. https://www.firstpost.com/world/uk-schools-developing-lessons-to-re-educate-teens-brainwashed-by-andrew-tates-misogynistic-content-11949582.html

Reeducation like 1984?

This is why they need to read the Bible at schools.

CasualGuy posted...

I really wish people could prop up one group without shitting on another. Young men pretty much got abandoned by progressives besides messages like "don't be toxic." Everything else has been mostly negative. Losers like tate are the direct result of just ignoring a group that could be on your side. There are no content creators I've heard of that are designed as "help young men" channels that aren't wacko right wing extremists

You're doing exactly what you're telling others not to do. Propping up young men by trashing progressives. This ignores that it's only a specific subset of young men that go down this rabbit hole. The common denominator is those men and the culture they grow up in and seek out.

There are several left wing channels that focus partially or entirely on helping young men out of the alt right rabbit hole and giving them more positive. Contrapoints, Hbomberguy, and InnuendoStudios off the top of my head. That's actually one of the biggest criticisms of BreadTube/LeftTube. That it focuses far too heavily on shitty dudes, their fears and misconceptions, and coddling them rather than focusing on marginalized groups or shifting power.

If these aren't as popular with young men, maybe that's because these channels ask them to do some tough introspection and to improve as people, rather than telling them that actually everything is women's/minorities/immigrants/the government's fault? Not to mention the bias of algorithms towards bigoted, controversy producing content, and their funding by corporations and wealthy individuals.

Misogyny only exists because the left abandoned boys? Does this apply to other forms of bigotry too? Does racism only exist because the left abandoned whites? Does homophobia exist because the left abandoned straights?

legendary_zell posted...

You're doing exactly what you're telling others not to do. Propping up young men by trashing progressives. This ignores that it's only a specific subset of young men that go down this rabbit hole. The common denominator is those men and the culture they grow up in and seek out.

There are several left wing channels that focus partially or entirely on helping young men out of the alt right rabbit hole and giving them more positive. Contrapoints, Hbomberguy, and InnuendoStudios off the top of my head. That's actually one of the biggest criticisms of BreadTube/LeftTube. That it focuses far too heavily on shitty dudes, their fears and misconceptions, and coddling them rather than focusing on marginalized groups or shifting power.

If these aren't as popular with young men, maybe that's because these channels ask them to do some tough introspection and to improve as people, rather than telling them that actually everything is women's/minorities/immigrants/the government's fault? Not to mention the bias of algorithms towards bigoted, controversy producing content, and their funding by corporations and wealthy individuals.

No, what we need is Woo, something like a cult but one that makes people better rather than one that devolves into sexual assault and Kool Aid. Like some kinda neo stoicism that worships an incomprehensible Lovecraftian deity. People, especially children, don't really respond to moral arguments, all children under the age of 13 are evil and only some discover morality before adulthood, you have to promise to make them awesome and to enjoy becoming awesome, eventually with enough repetition the new ideas will become more true than the old. "You'll get laid!!!" Is kinda hard to defeat without a promise of something more, something more easily romanticized and fulfilling

sevihaimerej posted...

No, what we need is Woo, something like a cult but one that makes people better rather than one that devolves into sexual assault and Kool Aid. Like some kinda neo stoicism that worships an incomprehensible Lovecraftian deity. People, especially children, don't really respond to moral arguments, all children under the age of 13 are evil and only some discover morality before adulthood, you have to promise to make them awesome and to enjoy becoming awesome, eventually with enough repetition the new ideas will become more true than the old. "You'll get laid!!!" Is kinda hard to defeat without a promise of something more, something more easily romanticized and fulfilling

What in the fuck is this post?

legendary_zell posted...

You're doing exactly what you're telling others not to do. Propping up young men by trashing progressives. This ignores that it's only a specific subset of young men that go down this rabbit hole. The common denominator is those men and the culture they grow up in and seek out.

There are several left wing channels that focus partially or entirely on helping young men out of the alt right rabbit hole and giving them more positive. Contrapoints, Hbomberguy, and InnuendoStudios off the top of my head. That's actually one of the biggest criticisms of BreadTube/LeftTube. That it focuses far too heavily on shitty dudes, their fears and misconceptions, and coddling them rather than focusing on marginalized groups or shifting power.

If these aren't as popular with young men, maybe that's because these channels ask them to do some tough introspection and to improve as people, rather than telling them that actually everything is women's/minorities/immigrants/the government's fault? Not to mention the bias of algorithms towards bigoted, controversy producing content, and their funding by corporations and wealthy individuals.

So men should like channels that do tough introspection instead of coddling? Yet all the womens and lgbtq help channels focus on coddling instead of touch introspection.

DarkProto05 posted...

So men should like channels that do tough introspection instead of coddling? Yet all the womens and lgbtq help channels focus on coddling instead of touch introspection.

Lmao. Rough thing is that this is probably not a joke post.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

https://youtu.be/c6Q1v4zRt1w

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

Did you ever consider maybe the reason that TYT/Humanist Report/etc. videos only get like a fifth the views of a Crowder vid is because they just aren't as engaging

Yes, another problem is that they allow Crowder a voice.

Kinda weird how many people go to bat for a sex trafficking kidnapper and rapist who proudly hates women

hockeybub89 posted...

Kinda weird how many people go to bat for a sex trafficking kidnapper and rapist who proudly hates women

Ehh, its not in your posting history to all of a sudden trust law enforcement now. Youre gonna have to resolve that some day. Besides, if he did the crimes and hes convicted, Im sure theyll sentence him as he would rightfully deserve.

As for hating women, I dont think thats as clear as you might believe. Frankly, its confusing to me the more I look into it. Ill give you three guesses who said the following:

I believe women are the most precious things on the planet, they create life, and they should be protected.

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

I believe women are the most precious things on the planet, they create life, and they should be protected.

Boiling women down to their role in creating children is a pretty common theme among misogynists, for reasons I think you're smart enough to figure out.