Current Events > Ever realize how big a GIANT SCAM 401K really are?

(+) Yeah! (+)

401K exist to force poor people to support the rich people in their "market making" bullshit stock bets and runups. Basically, you are told "well if you want a retirement, you gotta give your corp some of your money and some dude will invest that into stocks". It is presented as a good deal cause company match blah blah.

But the reality is it is a way to force your participation in late stage capitalism.

Oh did you know the governement now want to make is mandatory for everyone?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/12/21/401-k-changes-secure-20/

Starting in 2025, most businesseswould be required to automatically enroll employees in 401(k) plans. Employees would contribute 3 to 10 percent of their wages. Each year, the contribution would increase by 1 percent until it reaches at least 10 percent, though not more than 15 percent.
Businesses with 10 or fewer employees and businesses that have been open for less than three years would be exempt, along with church and government plans.

Hmm, wonder who this benefits? hmm. The worker?

Yeah congress LOVES the worker this must benefit the worker sooooo much.

If your company matches there's no reason to not do it. You don't get taxed for it and it's free money.

FelineCyborg posted...

If your company matches there's no reason to not do it. You don't get taxed for it and it's free money.

this man. Invest in your retirement.

yeah i hate it. i have thousands of dollars locked up because "rEtIrEmEnt"

why doesn't the state provide for its older people, with taxes. a sort of socialized security system. HMMMMMMM

The only amount worth contributing is whatever your company will match. Past that, you're better off maxing out your IRA every year and then using a standard brokerage account if you still have more to invest.

FelineCyborg posted...

If your company matches there's no reason to not do it. You don't get taxed for it and it's free money.

That is not the point though. If it is your only option for a hope at retirement you have no choice anyways.

Scam comes into question why that is your only option.

This is what Im talking about yesterday and Coffeezilla, the word scam gets thrown around way too much lol

WingsOfGood posted...

you gotta give your corp some of your money and some dude will invest that into stocks

Just put it all in money market/cash. It's dumb not to get the match if available

Haejin posted...

This is what Im talking about yesterday and Coffeezilla, the word scam gets thrown around way too much lol

Scam is rich dudes in a room come up with a way to get rid of pensions which makes workers donate money to inflate their stocks.

So you are wrong this is a scam.

I mean, yes they're a scam.

Like, I don't appreciate I just looked at the after seven months only to find I've lost $3000 because stocks are in a bad place. I don't know anything about that shit so I let them handle it, automate it. Sounds so complicated, probably intentionally so to have us laymans not engage too much.

But also, yes, what you say in the OP, too. It's how they hold us hostage.

-ZIO- posted...

I mean, yes they're a scam.

Like, I don't appreciate I just looked at the after seven months only to find I've lost $3000 because stocks are in a bad place. I don't know anything about that shit so I let them handle it, automate it. Sounds so complicated, probably intentionally so to have us laymans not engage too much.

But also, yes, what you say in the OP, too. It's how they hold us hostage.

oh ya I also forgot to mention

THEY have the POWER to crash the market which....

crashes your retirement.....

SHORT SHORT SHORT

WingsOfGood posted...

Scam is rich dudes in a room come up with a way to get rid of pensions which makes workers donate money to inflate their stocks.

So you are wrong this is a scam.

The money belongs to the worker still

Haejin posted...

The money belongs to the worker still

I cannot take the money out and use it now or I suffer major punishment. It's locked until the noted retirement age, of which I expect to be dead far sooner than that point. No one in my family lived long enough to retire. So it's held in this account at the mercy of the stock market's feels. Is it really my money?

Tc I usually enjoy your posts but this is worst take of the year.

-ZIO- posted...

I mean, yes they're a scam.

Like, I don't appreciate I just looked at the after seven months only to find I've lost $3000 because stocks are in a bad place. I don't know anything about that shit so I let them handle it, automate it. Sounds so complicated, probably intentionally so to have us laymans not engage too much.

But also, yes, what you say in the OP, too. It's how they hold us hostage.

You admit to not really knowing what you are talking about, please dont latch onto TCs conspiracy theories just because.

Haejin posted...

The money belongs to the worker still

scams happen cause people justify them with stupid bs like this

like "yes I know the effectively forced us into doing their bidding making them richer BUT"

how about you shut the fuck up

scam definition
"a dishonest scheme"

you don't have to steal money to make a dishonest scheme

MetroidGamer666 posted...

Tc I usually enjoy your posts but this is worst take of the year.

don't get fooled by the scam

-ZIO- posted...

I cannot take the money out and use it now or I suffer major punishment. It's locked until the noted retirement age, of which I expect to be dead far sooner than that point. No one in my family lived long enough to retire. So it's held in this account at the mercy of the stock market's feels. Is it really my money?

You can opt out lol, I think the proposed legislation is auto enroll, because it benefits everyone greatly

Lol like anyone this generation will retire

_____Cait posted...

Lol like anyone this generation will retire

so you are saying a 401k cannot even do what it is supposed to do ???

i wonder what tc sees when he glimpses 10 years into the future

Yeah, it's a scam along with how the stock market fundamentally works.

If investments as a whole worked more directly in the creation of a product or service such as Kickstarter (but of course, not exactly like it), it would be much better.

However, we need to feed our money into 401ks and watch it rollercoaster up and down during every boom-bust cycle.

Haejin posted...

You can opt out lol, I think the proposed legislation is auto enroll, because it benefits everyone greatly

As I said, the scam is not that you won't get "retirement money" the scam is you have no other option and you should use the 401K because it has been designed that you have no other option

"oh you want to retire? give us your money to make late stage capitalism worse as we get super rich off it thanks!"

Sansoldier posted...

However, we need to feed our money into 401ks and watch it rollercoaster up and down during every boom-bust cycle.

boom and bust is also artificially done

the FED literally can make it all go red whenever they please

hope you didn't want to retire that year cause it will make all the corps rich and the FED is on board!

Right now is the best to load up since everything has a low cost.

Also if youre contributing to get the company match, youre missing out on free money.

MetroidGamer666 posted...

Right now is the best to load up since everything has a low cost.

Also if youre contributing to get the company match, youre missing out on free money.

How do yall miss the point so hard...

fyi before the advent of 410K

retirement was free money

saying "you missing out on free money!" ya duh that is the point of fucking retirement plan

FelineCyborg posted...

If your company matches there's no reason to not do it. You don't get taxed for it and it's free money.

This, I quit my FT job this year and accumulated over 10k tax free purely from my company match. That's free money basically.

well I guess the systems works

people are unaware that other systems exist makes them easy to scam
and they might even THANK you for scamming them

Set aside this money that youll get to use when youre too old to even enjoy it assuming you dont fucking die or the market doesnt happen to be crashing when you hit retirement age

Merica

littlebro07 posted...

Set aside this money that youll get to use when youre too old to even enjoy it assuming you dont fucking die or the market doesnt happen to be crashing when you hit retirement age

Merica

but hey your money made the financial firms rich so there is that!!!
and increased inflation making your pay worth less !!

WingsOfGood posted...

fyi before the advent of 410K

retirement was free money

saying "you missing out on free money!" ya duh that is the point of fucking retirement plan

I'd make the argument that pensions are just as exploitative (maybe more so) since it traps the worker for 10+ years in a single organization, usually 20-30 years to get maximum benefits. During which managers can allow their salary/wage to fall below fair market value and/or subject them to mismanagement/abusive management and either they remain in the job (and thus maximally exploited) or they leave the job and the organization is fully/partially off the hook for their retirement benefit.

this is why we need crypto

not really tho

WingsOfGood posted...

well I guess the systems works

people are unaware that other systems exist makes them easy to scam
and they might even THANK you for scamming them

Your right which is why it's foolish to dismiss a company match.

The alternatives suck.

• 3-fund or target date fund IRA and forgo lots of free money
• Humping govt bonds or bank CDs for safe yet tiny growth
• Keep money in your checking account or couch and never be able to retire.

Worship your 401k and contribute at least enough for the company match. Anything between that and 15% is up to you and what you can afford.

Starks posted...

Worship your 401k

lmao wut

Real estate is a way better investment vehicle

It's literally set and forget. You get to watch it grow like a small child.

It's your future. Don't call it a scam.

And don't worry about "risk". Your 401k is built around mitigating it and preventing it from being worthless. If you don't like the investments, you can always rebalance them with no tax penalty. I probably missed out a bit by not switching to a managed account earlier. Should be only 0.3% fee in most cases.

Pitlord_Special posted...

I'd make the argument that pensions are just as exploitative (maybe more so) since it traps the worker for 10+ years in a single organization, usually 20-30 years to get maximum benefits. During which managers can allow their salary/wage to fall below fair market value and/or subject them to mismanagement/abusive management and either they remain in the job (and thus maximally exploited) or they leave the job and the organization is fully/partially off the hook for their retirement benefit.

yet we are in 2022 and could just make it to where you own your pension and take it with you

so much can be done when we realize why things are the way they are and don't go "well it just is the way it is! shrug!"

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Real estate is a way better investment vehicle

How you gonna invest in it? You foregoing free money to use your own money to invest in real estate? :O

They are on the way out for sure taxes have to go up

WingsOfGood posted...

so you are saying a 401k cannot even do what it is supposed to do ???

How much do you wanna bet they will say there is no more money when our time comes?

I've been questioning why I bother contributing any of my salary to mine for a while now. I don't get paid enough for it to be enough to retire before 70, especially since social security isn't going to exist for people our age. So I'm looking at working til mid 70s? I ain't gonna fucking live that long.

The only reason why it's a scam to me is that I can't access that money until I retire

And let's face it, my generation isn't going to get to retire. We're going to die long before.

So it's absurd to have this "ooh you have this small fortune floating around in the netherspace!" "Can I access it now?" "NO!"

Meanwhile conservatives are making it their mission to make that money worthless. Retirement impossible, homeownership harder by the day, destroying the dollar and the pound.

I could literally make more money if they gave me my retirement fund now today and I just invested half of it.

_BlueMonk posted...

yeah i hate it. i have thousands of dollars locked up because "rEtIrEmEnt"

why doesn't the state provide for its older people, with taxes. a sort of socialized security system. HMMMMMMM

The state can only give so much. Hell as it is SS is expected to run out next decade unless action is taken. So taxes will have to be raised just to maintain SS

401ks with a match are a pretty damn good offer. The only downside is starting to take out money when stocks are way down...and then also getting taxed on it, hence why people recommend roth 401ks.

I contribute to mine, company matches.
I also contribute to a private fund, and have a physical collectibles collection valued at about $15,000 that I could liquidate in under a week for about $8,000.

Diversity is key.
Also, Canada had a government pension plan and old age retirements as well.

UnfairRepresent posted...

The only reason why it's a scam to me is that I can't access that money until I retire

And let's face it, my generation isn't going to get to retire. We're going to die long before.

So it's absurd to have this "ooh you have this small fortune floating around in the netherspace!" "Can I access it now?" "NO!"

Meanwhile conservatives are making it their mission to make that money worthless. Retirement impossible, homeownership harder by the day, destroying the dollar and the pound.

I could literally make more money if they gave me my retirement fund now today and I just invested half of it.

How? gambling it? Stocks? Starting a business that flop 50% of the time? Also there are some circumstances where you can take money out.

meestermj posted...

I contribute to mine, company matches.
I also contribute to a private fund, and have a physical collectibles collection valued at about $15,000 that I could liquidate in under a week for about $8,000.

Diversity is key.
Also, Canada had a government pension plan and old age retirements as well.

Thats perfect. The problem mainly is that lots of people can barely afford their lives so they dont or cant even put aside that 3-6%.

CARRRNE_ASADA posted...

The state can only give so much. Hell as it is SS is expected to run out next decade unless action is taken. So taxes will have to be raised just to maintain SS

401ks with a match are a pretty damn good offer. The only downside is starting to take out money when stocks are way down...and then also getting taxed on it, hence why people recommend roth 401ks.

I prefer the ROTH as well but the maximum yearly contributions is limited to only $6k. On the other hand, with the conventional 401k, you can actually lessen your tax liabilities by contributing more money to put you in a lower tax bracket. Both have their pros and cons, but I think having tax-free withdrawals during economic uncertainty is well worth it.