Current Events > So...was Finn supposed to be the Jedi in Force Awakens?

(+) Yeah! (+)

It would have been fantastic if he ended up as a Jedi but, for unknown reasons he ended up being a background character

MetroidGamer666 posted...

It would have been fantastic if he ended up as a Jedi but, for unknown reasons he ended up being a background character

So if youre not a Jedi then youre a background character? Half of TLJ was Finns story with a trip to casino world. I dont blame anyone for blocking that out, but it was still there. At no point was Finn a background character. I bet if you did a line count then Finn got more lines than OT Obi-Wan or Leia.

I'm not really sure what his role in the trilogy was supposed to be. Rey was a master of everything, Po was a ace pilot, albert not as good as Rey. But Finns role? Idk

He had Intel on the inner workings and machines of the empire, ehich came in handy. But much of it were things a mere grunt probably wouldn't have known outside of plot contrivance.

ellis123 posted...

It wasn't just China, Johnson didn't want him to be a Jedi as well. That was one of the various things that Abrams got pissy about in an interview.

What interview, @ellis123 ? I'd like to see / read it.

FAQ-Checker posted...

So if youre not a Jedi then youre a background character? Half of TLJ was Finns story with a trip to casino world. I dont blame anyone for blocking that out, but it was still there. At no point was Finn a background character. I bet if you did a line count then Finn got more lines than OT Obi-Wan or Leia.

First his screen time was cut in half from TFA. Next the time he had doesn't matter he was Rose's side kick.

Remember when Han used Luke's saber to cut open that tauntaun in Empire and Lucas never brought that up again?! What a hack!

ThanksUglyGod posted...

Remember when Han used Luke's saber to cut open that tauntaun in Empire and Lucas never brought that up again?! What a hack!

???

Prismsblade posted...

Po was a ace pilot, albert not as good as Rey.

This is silly, Poe is a much better pilot than Rey. Rey is great for a beginner but nowhere near the level of Poe or Han or even Chewie.

Although I agree that a lack of a direction for Finn was a problem. Having him be just another Jedi would have been boring, but maybe a different kind of force user who doesn't fight with a light saber like Chirrut from Rogue One.

Also the movies seemed to have the remnants of a plot line involving Storm Troopers revolting against the First Order. A shame they dropped it, because that could have given him a cool way to play a big role. Imagine if Episode 9 had involved a massive, underground movement of people inspired to have hope because of Finn's defection, and later led by him. Imagine if THAT had turned the tide in the big final space battle instead of Lando just showing up out of nowhere with a massive fleet that had zero setup. Would have been a lot better, right?

cjsdowg posted...

First his screen time was cut in half from TFA. Next the time he had doesn't matter he was Rose's side kick.

C'mon man, this is just disingenuous. Rose was his sidekick. I agree that the movie should have done a better job of making Finn's satisfying, but Rose's sidekick? Give me a break.

cjsdowg posted...

???

Why didn't Lucas let Han be a Jedi?! We were all expecting it.

action52 posted...

C'mon man, this is just disingenuous. Rose was his sidekick. I agree that the movie should have done a better job of making Finn's satisfying, but Rose's sidekick? Give me a break.

Rose was the one who lectured him about war. She was the one who talked to the slaves, when they were on the space horses she was driving and he was yelling like Jar Jar. She literally showed him how he was wrong over and over. Even when Finn was doing the literal stuff she asked him to do. She was the one who beat him up. She was the one that taught him the life lesson.

How was she is side kick?

ThanksUglyGod posted... Why didn't Lucas let Han be a Jedi?! We were all expecting it.

No one was expecting Han to a Jedi.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/4/0/AABqjYAAECHY.jpg

This guy on the other hand.

action52 posted...

What interview, ellis123 ? I'd like to see / read it.

I don't really remember which one so I can't really show you to one. It's pretty easy to find the ripple-out through Google, though, as most people have their own opinions on what he said/did.

It was painfully obvious he was meant to be the Jedi and Rey was meant to be the Han Solo of the group. She had the expert piloting skills, lived life as a scavenger/smuggler, took over the falcon, and did all the mechanics work. Making her the Jedi too is half the reason why people make fun of her being the best at everything in the group:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/5/0/AABJX0AAECHi.jpg

s0nicfan posted...

It was painfully obvious he was meant to be the Jedi and Rey was meant to be the Han Solo of the group. She had the expert piloting skills, lived life as a scavenger/smuggler, took over the falcon, and did all the mechanics work. Making her the Jedi too is half the reason why people make fun of her being the best at everything in the group:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/5/0/AABJX0AAECHi.jpg

You thought they weren't gonna make the main character of the new trilogy a Jedi?

cjsdowg posted...

No one was expecting Han to a Jedi.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/4/0/AABqjYAAECHY.jpg

This guy on the other hand.

Why? Just because he was holding a weapon that anyone can use? Why would Snoke and Kylo Ren not have clocked that one of their stormtroopers was force-sensitive?

cjsdowg posted...

Rose was the one who lectured him about war. She was the one who talked to the slaves, when they were on the space horses she was driving and he was yelling like Jar Jar. She literally showed him how he was wrong over and over. Even when Finn was doing the literal stuff she asked him to do. She was the one who beat him up. She was the one that taught him the life lesson.

How was she is side kick?

Yes, side kicks often have their moments to shine and do things the main character doesn't or even can't, because their personality and skills complement the main character.

And sidekicks being the ones to give the hero that kick in the pants they need to get back on the right path and be the hero is a trope as old as sidekicks themselves. Samwise lecturing Frodo that "It's just like the old stories," when he wants to give up at the end of The Two Towers. Donkey angrily telling Shrek what a dumb, selfish jerk, then Shrek realizing Donkey was right and going back. Hell, even though we didn't see open conflict, Chewbacca's open and obvious disapproval of Han leaving the rebellion was clearly one of the things that led to his change of heart and eventual rescue of Luke.

Finn has an arc, Rose does not. Finn has the biggest heroic moments with Phasma. Rose mainly acts to help him on his journey. Rose's biggest heroic moment is an act of self sacrifice to save Finn.

It's really obvious who the sidekick is, don't die on this hill.

HylianFox posted...

China didn't like the idea of a black dude being an MC, so everything that was set up for him in TFA was thrown out the window...

Both Finn and Poe definitely got shafted in the later films.

Finn is still the only non-Jedi in the films besides Han Solo to handle a lightsaber, and Finn actually fought with it, twice. And wounded Kyle Ren.

Han just cut open a corpse.

mybbqrules posted...

Finn is still the only non-Jedi in the films besides Han Solo to handle a lightsaber, and Finn actually fought with it, twice. And wounded Kyle Ren.

Han just cut open a corpse.

Shut the fuck up.

action52 posted...

This is silly, Poe is a much better pilot than Rey. Rey is great for a beginner but nowhere near the level of Poe or Han or even Chewie.

Based on what exactly? She piloted the Falcon her first time flying ever in ep7 better then anyone else before, and arguably better then Po did in ep9.

She also single handling held off the first order at the end of ep8. Hell she even got a single shot triple kill, which Po nor anyone has never come anywhere close to replicating.

I think he was at least supposed to be force sensitive and possibly have his growth as a Jedi alongside Rey.

Prismsblade posted...

She piloted the Falcon her first time flying ever in ep7 better then anyone else before, and arguably better then Po did in ep9.

You mean when she was bumping into stuff all the time when she first started flying? Or when she led the TIE fighter to chase her inside of the crashed star destroyer and he had no trouble keeping up even though she probably knew the layout better than him?

She did manage to execute that one move at the end and set up Finn to destroy the ship, but that was more her using the force to intuitively put herself in the right place and execute perfect timing, like Luke with the Death Star at the end of Episode 4. Not so much her showing raw piloting skill.

Notice that when someone like Han is piloting in tight spaces, they don't even need a gunner, they can execute such amazing flying that the TIE fighters crash and burn just trying to keep up.

She also single handling held off the first order at the end of ep8. Hell she even got a single shot triple kill, which Po nor anyone has never come anywhere close to replicating.

She did indeed get that one shot, which was a combination of luck, taking them by surprise so that they weren't in evasive positions, and of course that force sensitivity probably helped her get the timing just right.

But anyway she wasn't piloting, Chewbacca was. Remember how he led the TIE fighters into that little cave, with tighter spaces than Rey's flight inside the Star Destroyer, at much faster speeds, and all of the enemy pilots crashed just trying to keep up with him?

Rey definitely had a lot of natural ability as a pilot (like all force users), and she was fantastic for a beginner, but never on the level of Han, Poe, or Chewie.

some trivia for ppl

the OT had a different director for each film

lucas did NOT have every thing planed out in advance he wrote every single film by the seat of his pants and he only wrote the rough draft for empire strikes back and return of the jedi

vader was not originally lukes father that was something lucas thought up while doing empire strikes back

and 20 years ago the PT was just as hated as the ST

One of the sequel's biggest crimes was getting me to like Finn and then just dropping his story on the ground and stepping on it tbh

Savoots posted...

Shut the fuck up.

What did he say that was wrong?

ViewtifulGrave posted...

What did he say that was wrong?

He's talking shit about Han Solo.

I want to reply to Action in a bit.

But I saw a lot of people talking about was Finn. FS.. All signs point to Yes.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/154577-is-finn-force-sensitive-in-star-wars-proof-that-finn-is-the-awakening-from-the-movie

Savoots posted...

He's talking shit about Han Solo.

I'm feelin' like a star
Ya' can't stop my shine
I'm lovin' Cloud City
My head's in the sky
I'M HAN SOLO
I'M HAN SOLO

I thought Finn was going to be a Jedi after the first movie, and then once he got injured I felt like maybe they were going to turn him into more of a rebel gunfighter type because of his Stormtrooper roots.

And then they did neither and just made him a poorly written side character of no consequence.

action52 posted...

Finn has an arc, Rose does not. Finn has the biggest heroic moments with Phasma.

Finn beat Phasma like Jar Jar would have once more. He got beat so bad he get locked of the edge of something only to land on a magical left to hit her from behind... That is not a heroic fight

Not look at this that they cut out. He looks like a hero there. But Finn can't look good at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzeIb-TZo_I.

It's really obvious who the sidekick is, don't die on this hill.

This is Hill is worth defending.
Finn was literally kidnapped as a child and forced to work for the FO. And HE isn't the one who talks to the Children.

Finn was the person who met Maz, but RJ made sure he wasn't the one to speak with her. (that isn't a Rose thing but just showing how he is side kick status).

Rose literally knocked him out. And belittled him for the rest of the movie. Clearly she wears the Jump suit in the relationship.

Finn was bait and switch. Whether or not that was intended since the beginning, that's what it turned out to be in the end. Like anybody in their right mind, I hate it.

The whole trilogy would have felt tremendously more worthwhile and progressive if only there was more than one surviving successor at the end. But that's just second compared to Luke actually training a successor.

FelineCyborg posted...

Last jedi killed star wars for me. I will die on this hill.

Fucking same. Anyone who tries to pretend it was good are delusional.

https://youtu.be/eGMpZnEMYVc

FAQ-Checker posted...

Finn was always what he was supposed to be. Rey was always planned to be the Jedi.

Bull and shit.

HylianFox posted...

China didn't like the idea of a black dude being an MC, so everything that was set up for him in TFA was thrown out the window...

Both Finn and Poe definitely got shafted in the later films.

Thanks for posting the truth itt

Poe should have died

Honestly, I think TLJ is fairly good as a stand alone film with problems like characters acting like idiots and pacing issues, but a very BAD star wars movie. All the mystery's that was in TFW were all nothing but dead ends, nothing burgers that meant anything. Rian Johnson absolutely loves to subvert expectations, but when you got nothing to build off from JJ Abrams had no choice but to "somehow Palpatine returns". This is honestly why I am extremely curious what he had planned for the third film. There's absolutely no way he would make a straight forward "Rey vs. Kylo Ren" movie without some twists or turns.

So yeah, Rian absolutely played a role why Finn and Poe was sidelined HARD. They really got almost no way to shine in their screen time.

A_Good_Boy posted...

Lucas Films was so busy calling their fans racist that they didn't check and see if they were being racist themselves.

As is usually the case with most corporations

I don't know, I just think TLJ is 1/2 of a good film, and 1/2 of a bad film. Finn did get shafted real hard, and Rose was not a good character either. As for Poe, I couldn't help but feel that the whole trilogy, he was created first to fulfill a trio, but honestly they were struggling to decide what to do with him. I won't blame Rian entirely on that as that was a problem since the beginning imo, but he certainly did nothing to help out. Additionally, big-budget movies need to chill out with the quips; it's not as cute and funny as they once were.

Rian does know how to create some really cool scenes, but I wasn't a fan of the direction he wanted Star Wars to go.

the last jedi is my second favorite star wars movie

AceMos posted...

the last jedi is my second favorite star wars movie

God help you.

cjsdowg posted...

Finn beat Phasma like Jar Jar would have once more. He got beat so bad he get locked of the edge of something only to land on a magical left to hit her from behind... That is not a heroic fight

Not look at this that they cut out. He looks like a hero there. But Finn can't look good at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzeIb-TZo_I.

This is Hill is worth defending.
Finn was literally kidnapped as a child and forced to work for the FO. And HE isn't the one who talks to the Children.

Finn was the person who met Maz, but RJ made sure he wasn't the one to speak with her. (that isn't a Rose thing but just showing how he is side kick status).

Rose literally knocked him out. And belittled him for the rest of the movie. Clearly she wears the Jump suit in the relationship.

None of these things are making Rose the main character or Finn the sidekick from a structural or narrative standpoint. They're just you saying you think the way they did it doesn't make Finn look cool or heroic enough. Which is fine, I also think Finn's story could have been done better, but it's still Finn's story. It's still Finn's arc. Rose's role is always a supporting one, even if she dominates him sometimes and is right more than he is. In Iron Man's relationship, he is dependent on Pepper Potts, she is stronger than him in most ways, she is smarter than him when it comes to common sense, and every time she criticizes him she is right and he is wrong. That doesn't change the fact that Tony is the main character of every Iron Man movie and she is his sidekick.

Finn was the brainstormed idea for part of a trailer, 'how about a black stormtrooper' and then they had no plan beyond that.

action52 posted...

You mean when she was bumping into stuff all the time when she first started flying? Or when she led the TIE fighter to chase her inside of the crashed star destroyer and he had no trouble keeping up even though she probably knew the layout better than him?

When she first flew it. Being in storage and disrepair for so long The Falcon was probably in the worst condition its ever been in. And at this point in the timeline likely wasnt as superior spec wise as in was during the prequel trilogy.

This all was before her force abilitys awoke.

action52 posted...

But anyway she wasn't piloting, Chewbacca was. Remember how he led the TIE fighters into that little cave, with tighter spaces than Rey's flight inside the Star Destroyer, at much faster speeds, and all of the enemy pilots crashed just trying to keep up with him?

Rey definitely had a lot of natural ability as a pilot (like all force users), and she was fantastic for a beginner, but never on the level of Han, Poe, or Chewie.

My mistake, but By now Rey could probably replicate every maneuver Po, Han and chewie ever did with just her natural talent. And on top of her force abilitys I can see her outperforming them from time to time.

Finn was just trying to reach Rey about her cars extended warranty for 3 movies but the bitch wouldnt listen

Prismsblade posted...

When she first flew it. Being in storage and disrepair for so long The Falcon was probably in the worst condition its ever been in. And at this point in the timeline likely wasnt as superior spec wise as in was during the prequel trilogy.

Make all the excuses you want about why Rey could have done better, that doesn't change the fact that she never showed piloting abilities as good as the really great Star Wars pilots, let alone surpassing them.

Prismsblade posted...

This all was before her force abilitys awoke.

That's not really how it works... When someone is strongly force sensitive, it comes out in things like premonitions and impossibly good reflexes. That's how Luke blew up the Death Star, that's how Anakin was so good at pod racing. Rey subconsciously using the force to enhance her piloting ability is totally in line with previous canon (in fact I think it's too similar, I think it would have been more interesting to show it in different ways).

Prismsblade posted...

My mistake, but By now Rey could probably replicate every maneuver Po, Han and chewie ever did with just her natural talent. And on top of her force abilitys I can see her outperforming them from time to time.

In your head canon, sure, but I'd rather talk about things that are actually in the movies if you don't mind.

He was definitely never meant to be the main character and even when I watched it for the first time, I knew it was going to be Rey.

But they still did him dirty after that. Not even a deuteragonist in the next two films.

I dont know where that came from. Before the movie came out, I knew that Daisy Ridley was going to be like THE star, along with Adam Driver.

Yall got yourselves hyped up for something that was never going to be and let yourselves act like it was the end of the world that it didnt go the way you wanted.

action52 posted...

Make all the excuses you want about why Rey could have done better, that doesn't change the fact that she never showed piloting abilities as good as the really great Star Wars pilots, let alone surpassing them.

When Po piloted the Falcon in ep9 it seemed like chewie would have preferred Rey piloting over him. Something he wouldnt say unless she was at least on par with or above his abilitys.

action52 posted...

That's not really how it works... When someone is strongly force sensitive, it comes out in things like premonitions and impossibly good reflexes. That's how Luke blew up the Death Star, that's how Anakin was so good at pod racing. Rey subconsciously using the force to enhance her piloting ability is totally in line with previous canon (in fact I think it's too similar, I think it would have been more interesting to show it in different ways).

Thats not always the case. Finn, Leia, and even Luke are 3 such examples of characters who were nothing special outside of their natural talent, and training before awakening.

I don't like it as much as you do. But Rey was as, if not a better combative, shooter, mechanic, and force user then them all. Piloting on top of that doesn't seem like to big a stretch.

Were_Wyrm posted...

Seems like your expectations were subverted in episode 8

... rian is that you?

Prismsblade posted...

When Po piloted the Falcon in ep9 it seemed like chewie would have preferred Rey piloting over him. Something he wouldnt say unless she was at least on par with or above his abilitys.

I don't remember that part well but I can think of a few possible reasons that have nothing to do with piloting ability. Poe is used to flying smaller ships that move differently. He also has a reckless streak and is willing to take risky maneuvers that damage his ship. Plus, at this point he and Rey have been piloting the falcon together for a year so he was probably more comfortable having her pilot the ship.