Current Events > Videogames need a new approach to boss battles

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm a bit drunk so bear with me here, I'm sure I'm making a good point

It's cool that videogames in the past decade have made these epic boss battles a big staple. Souls, God of war, devil may cry - all include boss fights where you're up against a HUGE monster several times. That's really cool, and the impact is amazing.

The only thing is, doesn't it bother you that 90% of the time you're literally just hacking away at a shin? Sure there's maybe a couple finisher or some QTEs, but for the most part you're running up to a leg and hacking randomly and watching a health bar go down 2%.

I feel like this set up needs a different style of combat to make it make sense and feel appropriate.

pinky0926 posted...

The only thing is, doesn't it bother you that 90% of the time you're literally just hacking away at a shin?

Not if the balance is good and I had to make a lot of decisions prior to make sure I was prepared. Im just happy Im not being interrupted by cutscenes every 30 seconds.

a small nimble boss is almost always far more exciting to fight than some huge monstrum.

also, weapon clashes need to be a thing(with accompanying sound effect) but so far it only seems to happen in star wars games.

There are some games that just throw boss battles out the window.

This needs to stop. Boss battles are supposed to be the best part of the game. The part that focuses all your skills in order to get a victory. We need more boss battles like Sekiro and Metroid Dread and less boss battles like Elden Ring.

Metal gear solid series definitely had the most unique variety of bosses

im sad it was missing in PW and MGS5

pinky0926 posted...

I feel like this set up needs a different style of combat to make it make sense and feel appropriate.

SOTN had a decent idea, where you're hacking at Galamoth's shin for literal seconds because you exploited Alucard Shield.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

That's what Assassin's Creed did as well.

If anything, trying to make "epic" bossfights is exactly what's wrong with the industry.
Just violence it to death an move on. Dynamic camera pans and a sudden flashing "X" prompt adds fuck all to the gameplay.

Oreos74 posted...

Metal gear solid series definitely had the most unique variety of bosses

im sad it was missing in PW and MGS5

Yeah exactly what I'm talking about, literally the worst ones in the series.

Also, BotW, game with such unimaginative and sparse boss fights.

Like why do they think open world formula gets you off the hook? Watch them make open world Ninja Gaiden with one lame mirror match boss fight at the end.

AsucaHayashi posted...

a small nimble boss is almost always far more exciting to fight than some huge monstrum.

also, weapon clashes need to be a thing(with accompanying sound effect) but so far it only seems to happen in star wars games.

Weapons clashed in Sekiro.

AsucaHayashi posted...

also, weapon clashes need to be a thing(with accompanying sound effect) but so far it only seems to happen in star wars games.

This happens in Hollow Knight and Soul Calibur(though I'm not sure this one works against the non-playable bosses) off the top of my head, and now that you've got me thinking about it I'm having trouble remembering more. I'm assuming by clash you mean how both you and your opponent attack at the same time which cancels both of your attacks.

for big monsters, the formula kinda works or at least, it's something that makes you do things

how else does one person fight a huge ass monster, it's not like you're power rangers that could call a huge robot to fight on your behalf

either they make it bleed to death by slashing one tiny part of it or a QTE/cut scene of using a huge mechanism to stab/squish the monster for instant kill

It's really hard to make big monster fights fun. The camera is often ass for them as well.

Shadow of the Colossus. Got it right. When it's big beasts it should be more of a puzzle than an outright brawl.

I like how Dragons Dogma lets you climb on larger enemies. I think maybe that just needs to be perfected. Blend the epic action game boss with the free flow climbing tech. Or conversely give the player grappling options where you try and topple them.

western devs have been saying this for like two decades now (mainly because they have always been mostly bad at boss design), but every time they attempt to do so it sucks. big epic boss fights that test your skill have always been super fun

Punished_Blinx posted...

Shadow of the Colossus. Got it right. When it's big beasts it should be more of a puzzle than an outright brawl.

see also:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/0/6/AAEhCpAAEBGy.jpg

I've never been a huge fan of boss fights in general. They're either damage sponges, have glowing weak spots, or a cycle of one thing you need to exploit over and over to make them sleepy so you can hit them a few times then do it again. They almost never push your knowledge of how the game works, they're just annoying and frustrating most of the time.

Lol I always felt like that fighting WoW raid bosses. Its like keep chipping away at this giant dragons toe and in 15 minutes hell be dead

good thing they dont just step on us

That's why games like Bayonetta or Metal Gear Rising are so great: the boss fights are at their shins, their torso, their face, etc. Sometimes you jump on a missile... and then sometimes you've just gotta ride the boss's beat up body like a missile through the solar system before dunking it into the sun.

Questionmarktarius posted...

see also:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/0/6/AAEhCpAAEBGy.jpg

Yeah, but the important part is HOW you get there

I dont think the description in the OP accurately describes even 50% of boss fights imo

Shadow of the Colossus does it really well, imo.

Other than DeS, most of the other Souls bosses are frustrating for me.

Bayonetta kinda offset this with the weaves.

JuanCarlos1 posted...

Yeah, but the important part is HOW you get there

When the giant boss is the level, you're probably doing something right.

KH is great with having a ton of bosses your size as well, and the giant ones usually aren't just hacking away at shins

I don't even know where TC is getting this "hack away at shins" garbage.

Do games do this? Some do, but not the ones known for good boss fights. I mean, Elden Ring does it, but you guys loved that game.

s0nicfan posted...

That's why games like Bayonetta or Metal Gear Rising are so great: the boss fights are at their shins, their torso, their face, etc. Sometimes you jump on a missile... and then sometimes you've just gotta ride the boss's beat up body like a missile through the solar system before dunking it into the sun.

I feel like the large scale bosses were a step down in Bayo 3 but I'm not sure how much of that is due to the poor visuals on the Switch hardware. They just felt cluttered and hard to read for me.

HudGard posted...

I like how Dragons Dogma lets you climb on larger enemies. I think maybe that just needs to be perfected. Blend the epic action game boss with the free flow climbing tech. Or conversely give the player grappling options where you try and topple them.

Some people kill a cyclops by shooting them in the eye.

True Arisen climb that sumbitch like a McDonald's playplace and plant a longsword in his eye.

DK64 - stun boss with barrels, gain ability to match them in size

FF7R - defeat spawns of the boss, boss becomes vulnerable to bigger attack/ assist

Yoshi Island - Use special ammo to launch at the boss, who starts very far away but closes in to destroy your platform

Sonic Unleashed - Use the body of a giant ally and launch yourself into the bosses weakpoint.

Ninja Gaiden Black - break away at a bosses hands/feet as it repositions itself around the central pitfall

DrizztLink posted...

Some people kill a cyclops by shooting them in the eye.

True Arisen climb that sumbitch like a McDonald's playplace and plant a longsword in his eye.

Oh that reminds me, even if the boss selection is sparse, BotW executed this really well too.

To everyone in this thread, what video games do you think did boss battles right? And do you think those methods should/could be used in other games? Boss battles can be a mixed bag, especially since they can vary by genre. Based on the topic I guess we're talking about boss battles in 3rd person action games specifically.

bioshockjack posted...

To everyone in this thread, what video games do you think did boss battles right?

Tetris

bioshockjack posted...

To everyone in this thread, what video games do you think did boss battles right? And do you think those methods should/could be used in other games? Boss battles can be a mixed bag, especially since they can vary by genre. Based on the topic I guess we're talking about boss battles in 3rd person action games specifically.

Arkham City
Sekiro

For AC, specifically Mr Freeze. A big gripe I have with bosses is where they keep doing the same thing even though you as the player clearly demonstrate it works against them. Freeze is an adaptive boss that removes advantages from you when you use them.

I still think fighting Abyssion in Symphonia for an hour on mania mode is the pinnacle of boss fighting.

Metal Gear Rising had nothing but excellent bosses, including a couple of oversized ones... and no, I was not bothered by them.

iunno, play more games tc

Warframe is full of target-specific cycling and phases and shit

bioshockjack posted...

To everyone in this thread, what video games do you think did boss battles right? And do you think those methods should/could be used in other games? Boss battles can be a mixed bag, especially since they can vary by genre. Based on the topic I guess we're talking about boss battles in 3rd person action games specifically.

Well this topic's premise is how bad huge bosses usually are. It's especially true in Fromsoft titles and Monster Hunter where damn near everyone in both fanbases don't like the big, lumbering dorks. They're fine in shooters because the big size is irrelevant when you can just aim anywhere, but a lot of shooters aren't really known for good bosses. It's also fine in turn based stuff but that doesn't change whether you're fighting a tiny 2D non-animated sprite or something huge in a 3D game so the size is irrelevant.

Oreos74 posted...

Metal gear solid series definitely had the most unique variety of bosses

im sad it was missing in PW and MGS5

Mgs 3 final boss is basically perfect as far as fight mechanics are concerned.

Maybe I missed it, but how has no one mentioned Dragons Dogma yet? You can climb the monsters.

For all that the Horizon series gets crapped on for being a generic open world game, its combat system is actually really good. Every single robot in the game has weak spots that can be broken off or damaged. If you break certain pieces off, they lose access to attacks. As the game goes on, the entity building these creatures begins adding armor to those weak spots which you have to break off before you can get to them.

And speaking of Elden Ring, it does have a boss which makes kind of a joke about the trope. One of the late-game bosses explicitly has a bad leg that he's bandaged up. When you whack at it enough, he literally rips it off so you can't hit it anymore.

Furi is just a series of boss fights that test your basic ability to play the game.

If more games gave you Six Majin and then treated the giant boss like a flashier regular boss fight, we'd be in a happier place.

pinky0926 posted...

The only thing is, doesn't it bother you that 90% of the time you're literally just hacking away at a shin?

Dragon's Dogma = fixed