Current Events > Anybody follow competitive pokemon? Why are 'hacked mons' looked down on?

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://youtu.be/HKRfU4DUa0U

In this video (I've heard the creator is super controversial) he points out that Wolfey's pokemon had like a 17 trillion chance of existing or that some aren't even possible to obtain without hacking because of the type of ball they came in

Are these legit claims? Does that stuff matter at all?

Because they are low effort and everybody would use them. Nintendo is generally against this stuff as well.

Oh dont listen to Verlisify, hes just a drama seeking dick. Burst into the Pokmon scene back in 2013 and started attacking everyone, and when they responded he acts like a victim.

Hes also terrible at Pokmon and went 0-4 at the first event and claimed they conspired against him.

It's because it's been scientifically proven that people who look down on hackmons have garbage opinions, and want to drag people to their low level because they would rather spend literal weeks of their no-life life rolling some RNG dice to breed a pokemon that has 31 IVs, the correct nature, and the correct egg moves, then EV train it and raise it to level 100 while spending tons of BP on the correct TMs.

Instead of just spending 5 minutes pokehexing a competitive legal mon and moving on with their life >_>

First and foremost, you should ignore every Verlisify video. Secondly, there shouldn't be any reason to look down upon them. In my opinion, the reason people look down upon hacked Pokemon is they need a reason to justify spending hundreds of hours breeding a Pokemon. There is no functional difference between a Pokemon bred with perfect IVs and a Pokemon hacked with perfect IVs. They function exactly the same in game.

Arcanine2009 posted...

Because they are low effort and everybody would use them. Nintendo is generally against this stuff as well.

As long as they are legal Pokemon to use and COULD exist in game I see no problem with it at all. The whole process for making competitive Pokemon is stupid as fuck anyways. Breeding is garbage.

Arcanine2009 posted...

Because they are low effort and everybody would use them. Nintendo is generally against this stuff as well.

Are they better than standard pokemon?

Or just more convenient? I haven't learned too much about how long it takes to create a competitive team but I've heard it takes a while

Verlisify is some dumb furry with dumb pokemon takes to garner dumb views >_> Ignore every video from him

CasualGuy posted...

In this video (I've heard the creator is super controversial) he points out that Wolfey's pokemon had like a 17 trillion chance of existing or that some aren't even possible to obtain without hacking because of the type of ball they came in

He's controversial yeah so take anything he says with a grain of salt but one of the big reasons is that people who inject pokemon have more time to do the important things like calcs and testing compared to the people who have to spend who knows how long riding bikes hoping for rng to be nice. Bad logic since you could pay someone to ride that bike and you can't even know if a pokemon is hacked if it's actually done correctly.

Strangely enough, cheating in competitive games is usually frowned upon

CasualGuy posted...

Or just more convenient? I haven't learned too much about how long it takes to create a competitive team but I've heard it takes a while

Legal hacked mons are just way more convenient. They aren't stronger than any real mon except for how fast you can make one. They're indistinguishable.

If the pokemon is legal, then there's not really an issue. Hacks only really become a problem when it becomes not even possible.

pkhex has saved me thousands of hours over the years

"I spent hours doing this super boring brainless task, therefore everyone else should suffer as well!"

Honestly I'm kinda shocked that GameFreak hasn't just set a whole section of the online where you can program in a team of 6 with max stats and you just set your moves.

Hacked Pokemon are looked down on for the same reason short cuts in any competitive scene is looked down on.

Tmaster148 posted...

If the pokemon is legal, then there's not really an issue. Hacks only really become a problem when it becomes not even possible.

At one point he said wolf had a pokemon with one IV set to 0. Does that mean it could have otherwise impossible stats?

The whole exhausting process of breeding endlessly just to get competitive pokemon is what drove me away from Pokemon in the first place. Now that I am back into it I would love to know how to hack stuff so I don't have to quit again.

Baha05 posted...

Hacked Pokemon are looked down on for the same reason short cuts in any competitive scene is looked down on.

But do these shortcuts allow you to play better / get better results?

Pokemon just needs to add a battle sim for mp and call it a day

CasualGuy posted...

But do these shortcuts allow you to play better / get better results?

In a sense they can in games where its all turn based and you can create a perfect Pokemon for situations that still look legal.

i understand why people would rather cut out the grinding and breeding, but if you're hacking in something super good that you'd never reasonably get if you tried doing it legit, then i'd say that's going into scumbag territory. doing it for convenience is fine to me, even if it violates the spirit of the game, so to speak

CasualGuy posted...

At one point he said wolf had a pokemon with one IV set to 0. Does that mean it could have otherwise impossible stats?

No. It's completely possible.

It's certainly a lot harder to get an IV of 0 than an IV of 31 (max) due to QoL adjustments gamefreak gave us. But there's a few stats where having the lowest IV is the optimal option.

CasualGuy posted...

But do these shortcuts allow you to play better / get better results?

no, all these generated pokemon (max IVs, max IVs except one set to 0, etc) are all possible to have in the normal game, you could make them and play with them through the in-game breeding system. it just takes a fucking AGE of grinding RNG hoping that one of the pokemon you're generating happens to have those numbers line up. All this "hacking" is doing is skipping that grinding. Not skipping practicing, not skipping teambuilding, just skipping the mindless grinding.

So all this fuss is just over time saving?

Wait, people battle using actual game carts/saves? I thought there was a neat lil computer app for competitive battling.

a pokemon that has legitimate EV's, IV's and moveset - not hacked
a pokemon with a one or more illegal moves, or has EVs/IVs that are not possible - hacked

don't care if it was made using a third party tool, if it has legitimate EV's, IV's and moveset, it's fine with me

CasualGuy posted...

So all this fuss is just over time saving?

100%

The problem is pokemon is a game that's both heavily RNG based and heavily stats based, so playing competitively basically demands some aggressive min-maxing in order to actually succeed, and doing so legitimately is basically impossible.

So some get crazy defensive over others basically skipping the grind before even being able to play.

Though its worth noting in other "competitive" things like the Battle Tower you really don't actually need 6IVs by any stretch.

Octans posted...

Wait, people battle using actual game carts/saves? I thought there was a neat lil computer app for competitive battling.

If you want to take part in official Nintendo tournaments you need to have a physical game. Plus if you do just want to play online, it's much different than Showdown (a pokemon simulator in the browser), because they have different rules.

If anything, hacking gives you way more time to feel your team out and practice. Imagine spending weeks grinding out a competitive pokemon, only to find out that the egg move you gave it isn't that good and a different one works better with your team.

Fuck doing that all over again >_>

Kaphotics regularly gives updates on how prevalenr hacking is in official VGC competitions. He analyzed every single team in Worlds this year and unsurprisingly most players were using genned Pokemon. For competitive battling, I see no problem with hacking your team because it allows you to test sets quicker and find syngergy easier. It allows you to brimg sets from Showdown and test your team against people in-game, like the high leveled Japanese or Korean players who don't use Showdown.

The problem I have with hacking is that some people trade their hacks to unsuspecting players, either through Surprise Trade/GTS or online forums. I hate hacked events and hacked shinies because there was no effort put into finding them or claiming them legitimately, but if it's for yourself and you hack it just to have it, then I could care less.

Tmaster148 posted...

Plus if you do just want to play online, it's much different than Showdown (a pokemon simulator in the browser), because they have different rules.

Pretty sure showdown has modes that match directly to the modes you play on the actual cart. dunno how popular they are though

Nintendo's rules are kinda weird. IIRC they allow 1 legendary pokemon per team I think

kirbymuncher posted...

Pretty sure showdown has modes that match directly to the modes you play on the actual cart. dunno how popular they are though

Not every pro player uses Showdown, though.

If you ever play online, 95% of opponents use pokemon that were created with a tool anyway.

Kakapo posted...

Strangely enough, cheating in competitive games is usually frowned upon

Hackedmons aren't cheating, unless you're doing something like giving a Lvl 100 Caterpie Flamethrower or some shit

kirbymuncher posted...

Pretty sure showdown has modes that match directly to the modes you play on the actual cart. dunno how popular they are though

Showdown does support VGC modes, but I don't think they are nearly as popular as the 6v6 singles. Plus showdown allows you to go back and play older gen singles.

Then there's also the tier system so if you want to play in a weaker format you have options.

CasualGuy posted...

So all this fuss is just over time saving?

Yes, and people who say otherwise are just incorrect or coping. Every Pokemon Wolfey has is legally obtainable through breeding, as there are ways to transfer IVs to egg Pokemons, 0, 31, etc. Assuming the moves, abilities, stats are legal, hacked Pokemon are just a time saver.

I used to watch this youtuber who used to complete in unofficial singles tournaments, and he was known for legitimately breeding all of his mons.

He was really good, but he used to lose a lot of matches over the fact that his IVs were occasionally off, and sometimes he would use TMs rather than transfer moves because of how time-consuming it was. Great player, but missed some opportunities due to his choice to breed his pokemon.

To put it in perspective, the only way I've seen a genned Pokemon get caught in VGC was the pokeball it was in. That particular moveset with that particular Pokemon couldn't have that pokeball (there are breeding mechanics related to pokeball inheritance). Otherwise it was identical to a legal Pokemon.

Edit: Additionally, really cracking down on genned Pokemon would probably reduce the competitive scene by an order of magnitude.

Add in that especially in recent games, it's pretty easy to get "perfect" pokemon, since:

• You can use stuff like bottle caps to trigger a 31IV (you do have to be at lv 100, but in Sword/Shield, this is barely a chore)
• nature mints (though these are expensive)
• you don't even really need to EV train since there's no limit from just using drugs
• You don't even need to breed a whole new pokemon to get an egg move, since they can transfer horizontally now, and any forgotten egg moves can just be relearned at the move tutor guy

In the current day, complaining about "hacking" legit mons is just really silly.