Current Events > ITT my pokemon gym leader difficulty tier list

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/1/3/AAc53qAAD11B.jpg
Made a tier list of Pokemon gym leaders and trial captains based off my Nuzlocke experiences. Basically, S means they can wipe without some serious planning and team building and even then luck can still be a factor. A needs a strategy and some team building. B can generally be winged but there's some strategy needed and the likelihood of at least losing 1 thing is pretty high so knowing when to sac and maintain tempo is important. C is generally safe, most are far enough into the game that you'll have a lot of options and even if you don't specifically counter them you should be fine with the better things you can invest in that you have available. Still might KO something with bad luck or a bad play. D is pretty much a free fight, in some cases the gym trainers or routes leading to them are more dangerous but otherwise there's not much need to plan since even just a super effective thing in your team can usually take out the most dangerous things on their team.

oh god.

memory of misty and bubblebeam in pokemon red/blue. shit hit hard.

kingdrake2 posted...

oh god.

memory of misty and bubblebeam in pokemon red/blue. shit hit hard.

"Hey what if we used a fully evolved pokemon with a great special and amazing speed stat?" Also I think she couls use an x special in RB?

Edit: and her in GS/ HGSS, actually had some ridiculous bulk and since I was doing hardcore nuzlockes it meant that I had to plan the gyms in a specific order to not exceed the level cap. D;

Surprised Clay is only in B, a lot of people put him in "Run killer" from what I've heard.

Haven't played Ultra Sun/Moon but stoner chick is that dangerous as a lategame captain?

A couple of B's, such as Blaine, feel like they should be lower but otherwise yeah that feels like about how I remember the fights. Especially with Whitney as she always gets insanely overrated as a difficulty spike due to the nostalgic person just being garbage at the game.

Umbreon posted...

Surprised Clay is only in B, a lot of people put him in "Run killer" from what I've heard.

Haven't played Ultra Sun/Moon but stoner chick is that dangerous as a lategame captain?

Clay is a problem in speed/challenge runs, not really normal playthroughs/runs where you are allowed to use items/grind. Obviously he's still a difficulty-spike but odds are you aren't going to end up with him being a run-killer like he is there.

Regardless of difficulty, Sabrina, Erica and Jasmine are the best.

Whitney can be scary if you're going in blind.

People say "Just use Machop" but a new player may not even be aware there's one available, much less understand they should raise it up to stand up against Miltank.

Once you know what you're up against, it's not too bad. Kid me got lucky and burned it, but otherwise status is a great way to make Miltank more manageable.

Umbreon posted...

Surprised Clay is only in B, a lot of people put him in "Run killer" from what I've heard.

Haven't played Ultra Sun/Moon but stoner chick is that dangerous as a lategame captain?

So basically, Clay has never been a run killer for me but he HAS caused a snowball that led to a defeat against Ghetsis in White 2. Lost something key to him because I forgot to consider crit ranges, and then I lost something to both of the next gyms and even though they were pivot sacrifices I had planned on, the fact that I got awful route encounters after that kinda left me with no good options for all of what the leader had. :(

And yes, Mina is lethal. I've only gotten through one time without any losses and that's out of seven runs that made it to her. Lost my first run that made it to her. Fairies have good bulk, they have coverage even in their natural learn sets by that level range, and the z move can still cause some considerable damage because oops the best poison types available also have dark typing or are frail, and the best steel types you have are low encounter rates and bad catch rates so you'd basically have to come back later for them after catching everything else on a route. At least where possible. :/ Skarmory is in my holy trinity for Ultra Moon.

SSSS Tier: Whitney

That's right... LIEUTENANT... L.T. Surge.

ellis123 posted...

A couple of B's, such as Blaine, feel like they should be lower but otherwise yeah that feels like about how I remember the fights. Especially with Whitney as she always gets insanely overrated as a difficulty spike due to the nostalgic person just being garbage at the game.

Clay is a problem in speed/challenge runs, not really normal playthroughs/runs where you are allowed to use items/grind. Obviously he's still a difficulty-spike but odds are you aren't going to end up with him being a run-killer like he is there.

Blaine crit+burn rng fuckery makes the risk of losing something higher, or else they get hit so low that you basically have to sac something later into the fight. Remember, hardcore nuzlockes so no over leveling.

And yeah. Oh, if you're really desperate you could always use a gem or two to cheese Clay.

Sayoria posted...

Regardless of difficulty, Sabrina, Erica and Jasmine are the best.

They're all right but Mina is my favorite. >.>

Umbreon posted...

Whitney can be scary if you're going in blind.

People say "Just use Machop" but a new player may not even be aware there's one available, much less understand they should raise it up to stand up against Miltank.

Once you know what you're up against, it's not too bad. Kid me got lucky and burned it, but otherwise status is a great way to make Miltank more manageable.

It was never the Miltank, it was always the Clefairy with rng bullshit. Best way to make Miltank roll over forever and ever? Sand attack twice then growl. You could even just sacrifice a Pidgeotto for that purpose.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Use growl, gg

Shotgunnova posted...

SSSS Tier: Whitney

Lmao

YugiNoob posted...

That's right... LIEUTENANT... L.T. Surge.

I love that meme, too lazy to check if I have a version of it saved

gunplagirl posted...

It was never the Miltank

One of the best speedrunners concurs.

https://youtu.be/9Kmbdjq9-2M

(Not included: The classic "Go fuck yourself" Metronome into Explosion)

YugiNoob posted...

That's right... LIEUTENANT... L.T. Surge.

fucking amazing looool

Umbreon posted...

One of the best speedrunners concurs.

https://youtu.be/9Kmbdjq9-2M

That is exactly the vid

Umbreon posted...

(Not included: The classic "Go fuck yourself" Metronome into Explosion)

Pre nerf explosion. "Nice defense, would be awful if I ignored half of it."

gunplagirl posted...

They're all right but Mina is my favorite. >.>

Sabrina has always been mine. Though I love the simplicity of Jasmine. And I have to always appreciate Erica.

Kinda wish they kept Sabrina in her old style.

Sayoria posted...

Sabrina has always been mine. Though I love the simplicity of Jasmine. And I have to always appreciate Erica.

Kinda wish they kept Sabrina in her old style.

Oh, I agree that Jasmine is amazing.
And yeah, original Sabrina was great. Heck, the GS version was fine but they softened that by the time of HGSS and went on to reuse that for BW2 and then that LGPE stuff.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Werster raging is like 30-40% of his best content

Umbreon posted...

One of the best speedrunners concurs.

https://youtu.be/9Kmbdjq9-2M

why'd he keep resetting? were his other pokemon garbage?

berlyman101 posted...

why'd he keep resetting? were his other pokemon garbage?

He speedruns so without any revives left that was the run.

gunplagirl posted...

He speedruns so without any revives left that was the run.

I don't get it. does he not have enough time to go to the hospital or something? or is there a rule you can't have any pokemon die?

berlyman101 posted...

I don't get it. does he not have enough time to go to the hospital or something? or is there a rule you can't have any pokemon die?

The speedrun would lose too much time and money is precisely allocated for items so the ones he used in the fight couldn't be replaced. The run couldn't possibly come close to personal best times.

I'm surprised Norman isn't higher. His slakings are cheeseable but they can OHKO just about anything, and his vigoroth and pretty easily do the same.

I've never nuzlocked.
Tell me what serial Stealth Rock distributor Roark did to deserve this honor.

i'm recently playing through crystal, and shitney (i swear to god this is a real typo but i'm leaving it) steamrolled my first two pokemon with miltank's rollout, but onix of all things completely decimated it. its defense was just too absurdly high, even for the high power rollouts, and i just used screech three times once it went for milk drink and then basically executed it

Relient_K posted...

I'm surprised Norman isn't higher. His slakings are cheeseable but they can OHKO just about anything, and his vigoroth and pretty easily do the same.

I learned from a low level run years ago that even just a basic sableye and something else using fake out can abuse the Slakings to death. Do it on the first one to get his heals out of the way, swap to something when it's close to death have your option for beating Vigoroth out. Power through that, then when the last Slaking comes out make sure you're in ko range of a normal attack but not his dark attack, sableye time, repeat first step. Even without that sort of strategy, fake out makuhita and lunatone swaps to pp drain the strongest one makes it easy to control the tempo.

ViewtifulJoe posted...

I've never nuzlocked.
Tell me what serial Stealth Rock distributor Roark did to deserve this honor.

Cranidos has way too much attack and in BDSP especially he has a better move set so you will really feel the full extent of it. And you can't over level in a hardcore nuzlocke so you can't just bring in an evolved starter. Nothing else can really do anything to it unless you invested time maxing the friendship and time to get a Roselia.

viewmaster_pi posted...

i'm recently playing through crystal, and shitney (i swear to god this is a real typo but i'm leaving it) steamrolled my first two pokemon with miltank's rollout, but onix of all things completely decimated it. its defense was just too absurdly high, even for the high power rollouts, and i just used screech three times once it went for milk drink and then basically executed it

Status reducing moves are the big brain strategy for many early fights. Hell, double intimidate can cripple more than a few gym leaders. Volkner for instance kinda suffers heavily even if you just lead with a Gyarados to bait a move at the very beginning of the fight. Meanwhile one of the trainers in his gym HAS caused me to lose 2 important things I was planning to use for the E4 and caused the entire run to die when I was just outside Cynthia's door since my plan for Lucian had to be changed and luck wasn't on my side for a few rolls and I couldn't possibly beat Cynthia with 3 Pokmon. And yeah, that same trainer has killed a Pokmon in 2 other runs. -_- No, they don't use electric types in their team, why do you ask?

viewmaster_pi posted...

i'm recently playing through crystal, and shitney (i swear to god this is a real typo but i'm leaving it) steamrolled my first two pokemon with miltank's rollout, but onix of all things completely decimated it. its defense was just too absurdly high, even for the high power rollouts, and i just used screech three times once it went for milk drink and then basically executed it

Yeah, Onix is an overlooked solution to that fight. Most people don't use it because Onix normally sucks, but it works there. Also against Bugsy if you don't have Quilava.

it served me well in the early game, then I upgraded to sudowoodo

also i'm using Kenya, the spearow you're supposed to deliver to a dude with his mail, lol. she's a fine bird

these three to me stand out as particularly difficult

Misty: Her Starmie is so bulky, it just refuses to die. and in FR/LG they gave it Recover to shrug off weaker attacks.. Often even super effective hits only do 1/3 of its health. There's a reason why a lot of challenge runners just ignore Misty and move onto Vermilion and come back when they out-level her.

Norman: He's not too hard, honestly. You can play around his Slakings. Emerald nerfs him by replacing one of his Slakings with a Teddiursa.

Brawly: His Makuhita is fat as hell and refuses to die.

Never had too much trouble with Whitney, honestly

gunplagirl posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/1/3/AAc53qAAD11B.jpg
Made a tier list of Pokemon gym leaders and trial captains based off my Nuzlocke experiences. Basically, S means they can wipe without some serious planning and team building and even then luck can still be a factor. A needs a strategy and some team building. B can generally be winged but there's some strategy needed and the likelihood of at least losing 1 thing is pretty high so knowing when to sac and maintain tempo is important. C is generally safe, most are far enough into the game that you'll have a lot of options and even if you don't specifically counter them you should be fine with the better things you can invest in that you have available. Still might KO something with bad luck or a bad play. D is pretty much a free fight, in some cases the gym trainers or routes leading to them are more dangerous but otherwise there's not much need to plan since even just a super effective thing in your team can usually take out the most dangerous things on their team.

Really good list and really good post.

I played through Ultra Moon earlier this year and figured after steamrolling Ultra Necrozma that nothing else would be challenging.

Totem Ribombee is the closest I've come to a full party wipe in years

comicfire posted...

I played through Ultra Moon earlier this year and figured after steamrolling Ultra Necrozma that nothing else would be challenging.

Totem Ribombee is the closest I've come to a full party wipe in years

My first time against her was a nuzlocke and oops she wiped me

Roark was hard? We literally get 2 out of 3 Pokemon as starters that can solo the whole fight

Also IIRC Ruby/Sapphire Watson was significantly easier than Emerald Watson

Brock should probably be within the same sphere as Roark, both in the middle of the line or lower. Brock is particularly difficult without grinding if you started with Charmander, unless of course you're experienced as know that Mankey spawns early in the game. In Yellow version, Brock is especially difficult, and Mankey is nearly the only way where you're beating him without a team full of either higher lvl or multiple Pokemon of equal or higher lvls.

Of course he's an easy sweep if you ever use Squirtle or Bulbasaur

Other gym leaders are hard to measure because your teams are usually too good as Pokemon as a whole is poorly balanced.

In the couple Nuzlockes I did, the gym leaders were almost never the major threats. Probably because they're the ones you were more likely to know the team composition of as opposed to some random trainer with a surprise coverage move. Some of them certainly seemed daunting. Whitney and Clair were the only ones in HeartGold I remembered being cautious of. And Clay for Black 2. I just don't remember losing any significant team members to gym leaders.

It's the regular trainers that are the biggest threat. Followed by the Elite Four, since the Nuzlockes I lost died against them.

That Nuzlocke talk actually has me thinking too.

I never played Gen 3, 4, 6+.

The potential to play those games doing a Nuzlocke almost blind sounds pretty fascinating. The only things I know is the pokemon of the gens and that's probably about it. I know some gym leaders too but I can't remember them fully. I think Flannery and those psychic twins are gen 3.... and I think Wake is 4? .... I mean, I know some thing but still pretty blind going in in terms of what i'd fight and where. Or even where legendaries are.

legendarylemur posted...

Hardcore nuzlockes aren't casual play and you can't just grind to evolve your starter so none of what you said applies. And basic game competency makes Brock a joke. Bide is just free turns to growl or leer onix in gen 1 games and using dupe lock outs you can ensure you get a mankey or nidoran.

GeneralKenobi85 posted...

In the couple Nuzlockes I did, the gym leaders were almost never the major threats. Probably because they're the ones you were more likely to know the team composition of as opposed to some random trainer with a surprise coverage move. Some of them certainly seemed daunting. Whitney and Clair were the only ones in HeartGold I remembered being cautious of. And Clay for Black 2. I just don't remember losing any significant team members to gym leaders.

It's the regular trainers that are the biggest threat. Followed by the Elite Four, since the Nuzlockes I lost died against them.

Gyarados trainers in BDSP before the third gym options you have, since it learns waterfall now. One is super bs if you don't know it's coming and get into a double battle.

Sayoria posted...

That Nuzlocke talk actually has me thinking too.

I never played Gen 3, 4, 6+.

The potential to play those games doing a Nuzlocke almost blind sounds pretty fascinating.

That's how I beat pokemon x. The secret is you get a crap ton of good fairy and steel options.

gunplagirl posted...

That's how I beat pokemon x. The secret is you get a crap ton of good fairy and steel options.

Eh, I played for the pokemon I like. I never played the games to be the best.

legendarylemur posted...

Roark was hard? We literally get 2 out of 3 Pokemon as starters that can solo the whole fight

Also IIRC Ruby/Sapphire Watson was significantly easier than Emerald Watson

Brock should probably be within the same sphere as Roark, both in the middle of the line or lower. Brock is particularly difficult without grinding if you started with Charmander, unless of course you're experienced as know that Mankey spawns early in the game. In Yellow version, Brock is especially difficult, and Mankey is nearly the only way where you're beating him without a team full of either higher lvl or multiple Pokemon of equal or higher lvls.

Of course he's an easy sweep if you ever use Squirtle or Bulbasaur

Other gym leaders are hard to measure because your teams are usually too good as Pokemon as a whole is poorly balanced.

My go to for Brock in yellow was a butter free to confusion spam it. It worked well enough.

Who is everyones face Pokmon btw?

Ive always liked Corsola.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/3/9/AAaB-xAAD1-z.jpg

texanfan27 posted...

My go to for Brock in yellow was a butter free to confusion spam it. It worked well enough.

Yeah Butterfree is a great option. I did forget that gen 1 never gave these guys rock moves when fighting them for the first time. I mandela effect'd myself, probably because I remembered Geodude throwing rocks early, and it was because Gen 2 actually gave Geodude Rock Throw at lvl 11, which is much more attainable. Brock's Geodude is lvl 10 though, but Butterfree lvl 12 would solo.

gunplagirl posted...

Hardcore nuzlockes aren't casual play and you can't just grind to evolve your starter so none of what you said applies. And basic game competency makes Brock a joke. Bide is just free turns to growl or leer onix in gen 1 games and using dupe lock outs you can ensure you get a mankey or nidoran.

I'm familiar with hardcore nuzlockes. Wasn't sure if you were talking in level caps or casual play. Either way, a lot of gym battles didn't even have a workable moveset or good IVs or any EVs until later gens, so it is definitely poorly balanced. I think patches that don't let you gain EVs make it a lot easier to rate some of the trainers though. Everybody plays by different rules so it's hard to say

And I do take back my point on Brock. I thought Geodude had Rock Throw, which makes it harder for Butterfree to just run the gym over. In gen 1, Onix can put you on a ridiculous bind lock though. That's definitely happened to me sometimes

ZannoL posted...

Who is everyones face Pokmon btw?

Ive always liked Corsola.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/3/9/AAaB-xAAD1-z.jpg

Starmie. Always been there and always reliable. Plus, geometric perfection. It's a star, and also another star.

legendarylemur posted...

Heck, in FRLG they give charmander metal claw and rock tomb 80 accuracy means just one smokescreen and it mosses about half the time lmao.

gunplagirl posted...

That's how I beat pokemon x. The secret is you get a crap ton of good fairy and steel options.

X/Y are pretty tough assuming you turn off the Exp. Share.

Trainer pokemon are very dangerous and have a lot of random coverage moves.

GeneralKenobi85 posted...

X/Y are pretty tough assuming you turn off the Exp. Share.

Trainer pokemon are very dangerous and have a lot of random coverage moves.

I used it as necessary for grinding purposes but that's because mind numbing exp stuff for multiple team options sure sucks doing it otherwise.

One of the scariest normal trainers is that parasol girl (Or maybe she's a cool trainer) in gen 3 with Milotic. She's on a route that's frequently raining. Fortunately she's skipable.

Umbreon posted...

One of the scariest normal trainers is that parasol girl (Or maybe she's a cool trainer) in gen 3 with Milotic. She's on a route that's frequently raining. Fortunately she's skipable.

In emerald I think she's just above the possible double battle with a manetric with thunder. Because of rain, 100 accuracy. Oof. Don't double battle him or gyarados trainers or most of Tate and Lizas gym where possible.