Board 8 > Which video game series have the most convoluted plots?

(+) Yeah! (+)

So, specifically I'm looking for a few key elements:

• Game series must take place over 4+ games
• The stories must be in the same world and reference each other
• The games span consoles and console generations, so it's difficult to experience the entire story on one system

Other factors not essential but still preferred:

• Time travel/alternate dimensions/different endings
• Translation/licensing issues getting in the way
• Major retcons undoing past plot points
• Movie/book tie-ins

So, for examples, Kingdom Hearts, Trails in the Sky, and Drakengard/Nier all fit. Arguably Metal Gear/Yakuza as well, but I'd like to expand this list. Bonus points if you list series that aren't JRPGs.

Sonic.

Big_Bob posted...

Trails in the Sky

Trails in the Sky is only 3 games though

I feel like When They Cry should be in the discussion despite only being 2.25 games and a million spinoffs and reboots

Guilty Gear.

Bubble Bobble

A couple of issues are at play here: many games in the series exist, some of which are not named Bubble Bobble or even Bubble anything. A thing that gets retconned back and forth is whether Bub and Bob were originally human kids who got cursed into being dragons, or if they started out as bubble dragons. A few games Star Cub and Rob who are their descendants, but later games in the series have them appear alongside Bub and Bob while they are still children (or children turned into dragons). Some console ports add new story elements not present in other versions of the same game. Sometimes story content is hidden behind secret endings that, in the arcade, are nearly impossible to achieve. Licensing/translation does make things more complicated than necessary; certain characters have had multiple different names and sometimes two different characters in separate games get the same name in English. The order that games occur in the story is near impossible to determine thanks in part to the titles of the games: does Rainbow Islands: The Story of Bubble Bobble II take place before or after Bubble Bobble Part II, and what about Bubble Symphony which is officially titled Bubble Bobble II in some regions? Same issue for Parasol Stars: The Story of Bubble Bobble III and Bubble Memories: The Story of Bubble Bobble III.

The Bust-A-Move/Puzzle Bobble spin-off fortunately does not really connect to the rest of the games aside from featuring a few of the same characters, but Im pretty sure its storyline is similarly convoluted

Pokemon is surprisingly complicated. Apparently each version is its own universe and there's multiple timelines dependent on whether or not Mega Evolutions exist.

Zelda as well, but that's practically accepted as common knowledge now.

yeah I mean you nailed it with your first example

it has been, and will forever be, Kingdom Hearts.

It's the only series that can have the most convoluted plot and mediocre gameplay of all time but still continue to pump out releases because "omg new disney world"

Based on what I've seen, Kingdom Hearts or Dragon Quest

No More Heroes.

I think Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter both count. Xeno series if you want to try to link them all together conceptually. Danganronpa if you include the spinoff and the anime.

You basically got the big ones in your first post. I don't think Trails is complicated at all, but I would say Metal Gear counts inarguably.

Kingdom Hearts and Metal Gear, without question.

Resident Evil also comes to mind for some reason. Probably because the rules and tone are often changing. Plus, you have consistently issues once sequels like RE0 come into play.

Guilty Gear definitely belongs in this conversation

KH and a bunch of fighting games, Guilty Gear being the stand out of the lot. But Street Fighter is pretty bad too surprisingly.

The Street Fighter timeline is still stuck in the 90's because they can't let go of the SF2 characters.

Any fighting game that tries to tell a serious story will get convoluted because it can't really be told in a straightforward manner, and some stuff that happens in one character's storyline may be canon or it may not.

shane15 posted...

The Street Fighter timeline is still stuck in the 90's because they can't let go of the SF2 characters.

To be fair the same thing could be said about any popular fighting series.

I dunno. I feel like Guilty Gear and Mortal Kombat aren't fixated on the SF2 characters

Zylothewolf posted...

To be fair the same thing could be said about any popular fighting series.

Yeah i guess so. I only mentioned SF because it's the only one i really play.

Also, Capcom tried to let go of the SF2 characters and the fanbase rejected it.

The fight is everything.

I mean, Ryu and Ken made Smash. That's about as relevant as it gets.

Kingdom Hearts or Blazblue

I was going to say Blazblue. It's true of Guilty Gear as well but Blazblue throws together so much technology, metaphysics, jargon and time travel, while also having a series of long, verbose, branching VNs as the story mode for every game, that none of it is comprehensible at this point if you try to jump in.

Which are the most convoluted western franchises? Feels like most people are mentioning Japanese ones, maybe because there aren't as many western franchises with long-running storylines?

Assassin's Creed and Mortal Kombat are the main two I can think of.

Metal Gear can be explained on a simple linear timeline so it shouldn't count. Zelda is even more convoluted.

Xeno is a good one

Kill the Past

The Science Adventure series was the first one I thought of

First thing to pop in was a clear and obvious Kingdom Hearts. Isn't Touhou supposed to be pretty out there, too?

From what I hear, Touhou is very out there when you get past the surface level.

I feel like Touhou isn't THAT out there if you're just talking about the mainline games, but the first few ARE on PC-98 and there IS a ton of lore (official and unofficial) if you dig for it and there are 90 million fan things

BlazBlue

i believe kingdom hearts is overblown in this regard and that assassin's creed is actually a top tier answer

Steiner posted...

assassin's creed is actually a top tier answer

It really is
There is just so much stuff thrown in the book (that no one reads) it blows my mind

Also in-game has so much damn text if you actually bother with it (reading all the database entries, emails in the present etc)

Trails isn't really convoluted. It can get pretty batshit insane but everything is easy to digest once you play most of them.
Metal Gear Solid is pretty digestable too, but I'm talking about MGS1-4 I haven't played 5 or all the extras.

Besides Kingdom Hearts I think the title should go to Assassin's Creed.

I haven't really followed FFVII and all its stuff but it seems relevant maybe?

A lot of FFVII's confusion comes from translation issues, not the plot itself.

As someone who's never played any of them, how does SMT (and Persona) work here? jw

Seems like as valid an answer as saying "The Legend of Heroes" rather than just Trails.

I wouldn't call Persona convoluted

I'm going to take a guess and say that Persona 5 Dancing is probably not going to be integral to understanding the plot of Persona 6.

azuarc posted...

As someone who's never played any of them, how does SMT (and Persona) work here? jw

Seems like as valid an answer as saying "The Legend of Heroes" rather than just Trails.

SMT/Persona are more like Final Fantasy, where each game takes place in a different world, or at least a different area of the same world, so there's no real overarching plotline. I think earlier LoH games are different worlds from Trails, too.

I guess the spinoffs with Persona are a little more complicated, with stuff like how Persona 5 Royal's additions are questionably canon to Persona 5 Strikers. I think the dancing/fighting games are non-canon... but spinoffs don't usually count in general for stuff like this, IMO.

Big_Bob posted...

I'm going to take a guess and say that Persona 5 Dancing is probably not going to be integral to understanding the plot of Persona 6.

Considering it has no real plot, you'd be correct

There is technically a connecting multiverse with the SMT/Persona games but it's pretty much meaningless.

Great_Paul posted...

Kill the Past

This is probably the ultimate answer though. Multiple seemingly unrelated series that still cross over, frequently contradicting one another, the connections sometimes thematically meaningful and othertimes not. Instead of concrete worldbuilding or a single overarching story it's purely vibes-based and a lot of the time just leaves you staring at it and going "what did Suda mean by this"