Current Events > Can married guys be incels?

(+) Yeah! (+)

What do you mean?

Sure, it could be an arranged marriage that hasn't been consumated in any way where the wife isn't planning on it either.

But in general, not really.

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Mostly this, but there are sexless marriages.

Lol, a lot of married couples are some of the most celibate people on Earth. So yes.

Is this regarding a certain Twitch streamer who made a three hour long video showing what a horrible person his accuser actually turned out to be?

Because if so, Im amazed such a small fry like that steamer in question landed himself such a bombshell of a wife, just sayin.

At this point, Incel is a state of mind, anyone can be an Incel.

There are questions there about what woman would want you as a spouse, but whatever.

This is like one of those T/F questions on tests where you think you know the answer but can think of extreme edge cases so then you don't know what to answer because you don't know what the person who made the test was thinking.

Literally? No.

Have the same types of opinions and personality? Absolutely.

I'd assume so. There's been a lot of jokes and material about how sex after marrge gets rarer and rarer.

Yes there are a lot of them

I don't think so tim.

Proto_Spark posted...

At this point, Incel is a state of mind, anyone can be an Incel.

There are questions there about what woman would want you as a spouse, but whatever.

right as an analogous thing, pre-incel as a super common term there was a lot of similar conceptions of just "virgins" vs "non-virgins", but there were plenty of people who had sex a handful of times who were far more loser-y than the people who never had (if you're someone who used that as a barometer for how cool someone was).

A lot of guys are in sexless marriages

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I mean maybe they could both be ace but idk if that'd count as the "in" part of "incel"? (or why an ace person would be frustrated about not having sex)

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To take advantage of his money I suppose.

Gladius_ posted...

An incel is someone who is involuntarily celebate that also has hostile views towards women.

This is not true. It's simply someone who's given up on the chance of finding a companion The incel population is only growing with each year. You would do well to actually learn the issues of the population.

Sad_Face posted...

It's simply someone who's given up on the chance of finding a companion

That's not the definition of incel either.

Anteaterking posted...

That's not the definition of incel either.

I disagree but feel free to correct me.

Most cucks fit this description.

A guy who's being cheated on by his wife who he never has sex with. That's a lot of dudes.

married guys can be celibate, but are they "involuntary"?

Ricemills posted...

married guys can be celibate, but are they "involuntary"?

If the wife is holding out then yeah

Yes as forcing your spouse to sleep with you is considered rape.

If the guy has the ability to marry he presumably has the ability to cheat as well, so even if the wife won't sleep with him he's not an incel.

Exception is if the guy just got really ugly as he aged and can't attract women anymore I guess.

Gladius_ posted...

Why would a women date a guy who is inherently hateful and hostile towards her but have zero interest in him sexually?

Stale marriage. The spouses hate each other but nobody leaves because it'd mess up their living arrangements and child situations.

yes, absolutely. the first time i ever heard about MGTOW was from a married coworker. sure, he was no virgin, but a similar mindset was there.

prob possible. i knew a married couple from when i was in the military that married to get the housing benefits lol (both were in the military). they slept in separate rooms and didn't seem like they were sexually attracted to each other. it was more like a platonic friendship.

the guy wasn't an incel but I'm sure it's possible an incel could replicate this.

p

o

Mistere_Man posted...

Yes as forcing your spouse to sleep with you is considered rape.

As it should be.

Where it starts to go off the rails is when the argument is made that any degree of pressure or influence is considered force. I have on several occasions seen the argument made that even bringing up the topic of how a lack of intimacy in your relationship is negatively effecting you is considered to be pressuring the other person and is therefore rape. Of course, that was Reddit, so take that as you will.

Gladius_ posted...

a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile toward women and men who are sexually active.

Notice the bolded. And it was a woman who coined the incel term to describe her love life situation in the first place. You guys need to start learning about the incel population because the hostility and ignorance is only going to exacerbate the crisis even further. I'm from the millennial generation and it's unfortunate to say that a significant population of the female Milennial demographic will end up single in their 50's+ and miss their chance to raise a family, a sharp increase from the previous demographics. And on flipside we have a generation of boys who are socially isolated and are raised on Twitch and Youtube, developing parasocial relationships with the entertainers they watch. And this is on top of the current male worker crisis of 1 in 3 working age men out of the workplace already.

All these issues are interconnected, and there are no brakes on their growth. Even worse, there are people who are sympathetic to the incel cause, including one notorious guy whose first name starts with "A" and whose last name starts with "T" and reminds you of small cylindrical deep fried potatoes. We had a conversation just yesterday where I said people need to sit down with each other and to understand the other side before educating as other people will put in the effort to do the very same thing but with the intention to imposing their ideals on the world. The above is the perfect example.

You will only bolster his forces until you sit and understand their grievances, what causes those grievances, and work to offer a solution.

TL;DR - Start showing incels sympathy and genuinely try to understand their plight or risk someone else showing them sympathy and weaponizing them against you.

Gladius_ posted...

You also missed the "part of an online community." And ignored the entire wikipedia article. It doesn't matter where the original word came from because today it means a certain online group of people and that group is associated with misogyny, misandry, racism, and has been declared a hate group.

Yes, I ignored the wikipedia article. I have a decade's worth of witnessing Wikipedia misrepresent events. This here, an explanation of the bottom of society's hierarchy of law abiding citizens, the (male) incel population is no exception. And I regularly interact with guys who gave up and became incels.

Gladius_ posted...

The goal is to find ways to prevent people from becoming incels in the first place. Given how many people incels killed I would not want to sit down with one. Lol

You don't know why people become incels, you don't know what's driving its growth, and you don't know how they feel about their lifestyle. You're not even humanizing them and you want to find a solution to prevent people from becoming one. This is equivalent to trying to solve a debugging error and throwing crap at the wall without understanding why the error is occurring in the first place or being a doctor and prescribing meds based on symptoms without diagnosing why the illness exists in the first place. That's just sloppy and won't solve the root of the problem.

Gladius_ posted...

Solutions and ideas have been made but it requires overthrowing the other party. All the solutions that would improve male lives would require overthrowing the MAGA's in power because they oppose all of them.

This extends far beyond politics. This is a societal crisis that cultures across the entire world are dealing with to varying degrees. No one has put the fire out yet.

Gladius_ posted...

Wikipedia confirms the dictionary definition as it mentions it requires a person to be part of the incel community. Not being able to find a women or choosing not to want a relationship does not make someone an incel. Again, the modern definition goes far beyond that. Also wikipedia has citations to the sources.

Then point to the citations. Wikipedia has never been a credible authority, it is an amalgamation of sources and is easily prone to having the actual information misrepresented in their articles. And no it's not a requirement for them to join the incel community to be an incel. It just requires someone to give up on finding a companion and submit to the belief they're unlovable.

Gladius_ posted...

Many incels have posted here on gamefaqs and they make it clear why they consider themselves incels. It's their perception of online dating, why women reject them, their misguided beliefs on what women want, and so much more. Yes. There's quite a few factors and I'll touch on more at the bottom..

Why is this population growing? And the answer can't be as simple as telling them to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.

Gladius_ posted...

No it doesn't. Lack of education has to do with the cost of schooling which is directly responsible by a certain party that fights tooth and nail to prevent less costly or even free education. An entire political side is constantly creating conspiracy theories regarding schooling and how it's "brainwashing" people to be liberal.

I invite you to read an opinion piece by Andrew Yang on the current male crisis in the US.

https://archive.ph/INANR

And note that Japan has been struggling for years regarding their males dropping out of society to the point that their birth rates are at risk of the society not being able to maintain its population size in the future. This isn't as simple as blaming MAGA for everything, birth rates across many developed countries are all falling.

Gladius_ posted...

Incorrect as per the dictionary and wikipedia.

Which is absolutely meaningless. Wikipedia isn't a credible source and the dictionary will input an incorrect definition if enough people use it; see the word "literally". Listen to the people who engage with the topic.

Never suggested this. I suggested a change to society that is creating the problem. Harmful ideologies and political views that are no longer viable in the modern age that is leading to the stagnation, collapse, and misery for the people involved.

What ideologies? This culture is vastly, vastly more more liberal and tolerant than 20 years ago. And yet more and more guys are dropping out of the work force and giving up on dating. This cannot be the case, especially when you look at the guys who are actively dating and finding success to the point where they can pick and choose their girls any day of the week sharing similar sentiments to the character's whose last name reminds you of a potato who is now a cultural force.

Yup. Already touched on all of that. I know all of those statistics and have commented on them several times. As mentioned, men are being encouraged to jump into labor extensive jobs when not only is it a declining market. It's not a viable path. Not only this but too many jobs/careers do not provide living wages. This is a problem that an entire political side continues to hand wave. A problem they don't want to address because it doesn't make their top line money.

There's always a need for plumbers and carpenters as long as we have houses. Given how they've been treated as second class citizens, they can pick and choose their clientele and charge a premium due to the deficit of that population. In contrast, a lot of white collar jobs are going to get blown up in the next 5 years due to the recognition of redundancies from the shift during the Covid pandemic on top of the looming threat of AI and smart contracts.

Gladius_ posted...

Not blaming MAGA for everything. I am blaming far right nationalism and traditionalism which maga employ. Japan is struggling with the same problem. Their failure to adapt. They want to stick to tradition, they too have very conservative elements trying to undo the progress that they have begun to maintain, Japan has such an issue with sexual assault that they are starting to announce on train stations that if women don't want to be groped they should move to the back of the train. Can you see why women don't want partners there? Or subject themselves to this treatment now that they don't have to?

As I said, Liberalism dominates culture. Big tech is all heavily left leaning. Google will heavily penalize unfavorable searches. You have Netflix pushing diverse shows every week. Hollywood has been switching ginger colored haired characters out of existence for years for more melanin endowed replacements (Annie, the lovely Zandaya as MJ in the latest Spiderman films, this new controversial Little Mermaid remake). Twitter kicked off last the president off its platform. Academia is heavily left leaning and going to college is the default path for a US citizen. Speaking any of the typical conservative points "I don't believe in abortion" or "I don't agree with same sex marriage" is a surefire way to kill your career and turn people against you.

MAGA has nowhere near the reach of its counter force. More importantly, MAGA/nationalism is a reactionary cultural force as a response to the current state. So I disagree. On top of that, this trend of guys dropping out of life is seen across the country and isn't limited to Red or Blue states (well, haven't heard anyone pointed ).

And Japan's sexual assault problems can't be the source because guys are dropping out of culture altogether from even HS. They'll never have the chance to interact with women in the first place.

Birth rates are a lesser deal. Population doesn't need to continuously keep growing. We have more people in the world than any point in history.

Birth rates are one of the most critical points for any society. You need children to pass on your ideals and traditions and they will be the ones who are most invested in maintaining your society after you die. You can't expect outsiders to be as invested as someone who was born and grew up in said society.

The world population isn't evenly distributed. The US has just under 330 million persons while India is over 1.3 billion. In India, women don't have the same luxuries and freedom in India as they do in the US. To give an example, a girl who is raped is treated as an outcast by society. Not very fair for the girl no?

Now consider this hypothetical scenario; suppose the US birth rates are near zero due to the general populace making the vow to protect this Earth and solve the population problem. This means, practically no kids. But India takes advantage of this and mass immigrates over while keeping their culture completely intact. This means that within just a couple generations, the US will become a little India and you're gambling they'll adopt US customs that contradict Indian customs, which more than likely won't happen, thereby undoing all the progression US culture achieved and while negating the sacrifice those Americans originally made.

For a real life example, the Right is having more babies than the Left because they don't care about the population problem while the Left shares the stance of having no babies to protect the environment. Therefore, unless the Left is able to instill their beliefs in the Right's babies, the Left is at risk of dying out in a couple generations, undoing the progress they made in the past 20 years.

For the others, yes, Wealth inequality is a problem, there's a technological movement to address this in the Web3 space by driving smart contract adoption which I won't touch on since no one will believe it till they see it in action in their daily lives. And Japan's right wing uprising is predated by their herbivore men and NEET (Not employed, educated, or in Training) problem.

Ever see the musical Chicago?

The main character's husband was one.

Well this topic has devolved into walls of text.

Truly a CE topic.

__poi_____ posted...

This is like one of those T/F questions on tests where you think you know the answer but can think of extreme edge cases so then you don't know what to answer because you don't know what the person who made the test was thinking.

I feel this.

I'd say that one of the reasons is that men are still pushed into gender roles a lot (either by their families, peer pressure, general societal expectations, etc), including the "men shouldn't be emotional" stuff. Thus a lot of repressed emotions/need for emotional support, leaving guys susceptible to grifters, which then create a negative feedback loop.

Its possible, although I cant imagine its super common, because it would require both the guy becoming an incel after getting married (or being in an arranged marriage), and also his spouse not simply divorcing him.

Married men can be misogynistic

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phew, we'll be talking in circles since neither of us believe a word the other says. I'll give you a two week vacation before I kick up an argument on something you say. Unless it's about incels, someone has to be there to look out for those who wallow in despair.