Current Events > Both Nord Stream 1 and 2 are offline due to undersea blasts - massive gas leaks

(+) Yeah! (+)

Whether this was done by Russia to put the pressure on Europe over energy or some other entity, this definitely elevates the stakes going into winter, although it also potentially takes gas off the table as a threat for Russia.

It's also worth noting that the sections destroyed are MUCH closer to Germany than Russia, so this could also be doubling as a threat to the EU on Russia's subs in the Baltic.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63044747

Seismologists reported underwater blasts before the leaks emerged.

"There is no doubt that these were explosions," said Bjorn Lund of Sweden's National Seismology Centre, as quoted by local media.

The operators of Nord Stream 2 warned of a loss of pressure in the pipeline on Monday afternoon. That led to a warning from Danish authorities that ships should avoid the area near the island of Bornholm.

The operator of Nord Stream 1 said the undersea lines had simultaneously sustained "unprecedented" damage in one day.

Denmark's Defence Command has released footage of the leaks which shows bubbles at the surface of the Baltic Sea near the island.

The largest patch of sea disturbance is 1km (0.6 miles) in diameter, it says.

this wouldn't have happened if 007 were there to stop it

Looks like Uncle Vlad has seen The Shining one too many times and seems to think turning his enemies into popsicles is the way to go.

And no, unlike some people Ive seen on this website whove since gotten modded as a result of their bad hot takes, I do not like how a lot of innocent folks are going to suffer over this pissing match between the EU and the Russian Federation.

My gripe was always that the EU should have gotten their energy situation squared away before they decided to antagonize the folks supplying them with oil since I had a sinking suspicion that once things started to go bad for the Russians, they would shut off all fuel for the Western World and attempt to freeze them out, both financially and quite possibly physically if the coming winter is as bad as folks are predicting.

https://youtu.be/k8YC7UQVmis

btw putin has found a new business partner:

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/exclusive-afghan-taliban-sign-deal-russian-oil-products-gas-wheat-2022-09-27/

no surprise there.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/9/2/AAA_aCAADuKE.jpg

Add ecoterrorism to russia's warcrime list

I don't really see any obvious motives for any country to blow these up. NS 2 was never operational, and NS 1 has been shut down for a couple weeks already because of "technical problems," so Russia was already utilizing the "Remove the sanctions and we can 'fix' the glitch and gas will flow again" strategy. Causing major damage to the pipeline so now they definitely can't be brought on again anytime soon just seems to remove Russia's leverage.

Also I don't see why any NATO country or Ukraine would do this either, gas hasn't been flowing through them for weeks, you would think they would just keep ignoring Russia instead of blowing it up. And of course the idea that the US did this because Biden said "Nord 2 will be stopped one way or another" at the beginning of the year is absurd.

Nord 2 was never On.

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

I don't really see any obvious motives for any country to blow these up. NS 2 was never operational, and NS 1 has been shut down for a couple weeks already because of "technical problems," so Russia was already utilizing the "Remove the sanctions and we can 'fix' the glitch and gas will flow again" strategy. Causing major damage to the pipeline so now they definitely can't be brought on again anytime soon just seems to remove Russia's leverage.

Also I don't see why any NATO country or Ukraine would do this either, gas hasn't been flowing through them for weeks, you would think they would just keep ignoring Russia instead of blowing it up. And of course the idea that the US did this because Biden said "Nord 2 will be stopped one way or another" at the beginning of the year is absurd.

The best I can figure, the Nord 1 pipes were still full of gas, so Russia has every reason to punch holes in them to drain them in case the EU decided to siphon up the rest for winter reserves. Keep in mind Russia has spent months now literally just burning off spare gas because it's easier for them to do so rather than reduce production:
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-62652133

As Europe's energy costs skyrocket, Russia is burning off large amounts of natural gas, according to analysis shared with BBC News.

They say the plant, near the border with Finland, is burning an estimated $10m (8.4m) worth of gas every day.

Experts say the gas would previously have been exported to Germany.

Germany's ambassador to the UK told BBC News that Russia was burning the gas because "they couldn't sell it elsewhere".

I wont be surprised if Russia did it, blames someone else so they can use it as an excuse that they were attacked.

Agent_Stroud posted...

before they decided to antagonize the folks supplying them with oil

Jesus fucking Christ

Bet you wouldn't be wagging fingers at anyone for antagonizing China despite all they provide to the world economy (not that I would either).

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

I don't really see any obvious motives for any country to blow these up

It could be secondary motives.
Even if they were not in use, the destruction of them raised the nature gas prices, which raised the electricity prices. Many countries also "waste" resources in investigations and trying to protect other pipelines from sabotage. This economical hit could be a nice revenge for Russia, and Europe got less money to support Ukraine.
USA could use it as an excuse to send more help to Ukraine and Europe.
Ukraine could use it as an excuse to get more help.
China could use it to get cheaper oil and nature gas from Russia, because now they cant ship it as easily to Europe even if they wanted.
Germany could use it as an excuse to get more support in buying nature gas from Saudi Arabia and/or reopening their old nuclear plants.
CIA could do it as an excuse to kill Putin.
Etc, etc.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/2/3/AAEhCpAADuaL.png

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/2/4/AAEhCpAADuaM.jpg

Seems relevant

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/5/7/AAA_aCAADud1.jpg
They have found a fourth hole now.
Earlier they have found a hole on Nord Stream 2 SouthEast of Bornholm and two on Nord Stream 1 NorthEast of Bornholm.
The new one is on Nord Stream 2 between the two holes on Nord Stream 1.

At Monday night, 02:03, an explosion registred near the SouthEast hole, a 1.8 on the Richter Scale.
The second explosion registred 19:04 near the NorthEastern holes, a 2.3 on the Richter scale.

The seismic waves from the second explosion got a strange small afterwave, which could mean a smaller explosion 10 seconds after the first one.

Wow... some Tom Clancy level going ons..

I hope this doesn't affect energy prices/availability here too much

teep_ posted...

I hope this doesn't affect energy prices/availability here too much

Do you live in Europe?

It doesn't make any sense for any european country to do this. They are pretty much all entering crisis mode due to exorbitantly high energy costs this winter. Its in all of their best interest to end this conflict and get natural gas through the pipeline. LNG is now their much more expensive alternative that they have to rely on. Its also in Russia's best interest to keep that partnership going after this war is over. The only culprit in Europe is Ukraine as a fuck you to Russia.

The US isn't dumb enough to do something like this. This does nothing to hurt Russia short term, and long-term it hurts European allies more than it hurts Russia. And our economy very much is interconnected with western europe. Many of our companies benefit from strong european economies.

Asia...its certainly possible an asian country could do it. This allows cheaper resources for them, from Russia, and potential for export to Europe. But again, economies are so interconnected. If europe does poorly, they won't import as much from China, because most of that is manufactured goods. Bed economy = less spending = less chinese imports.

Last but not least, I think the most likely culprit is not a particular nation, but a private company involved in shipping of LNG. Destroying this pipeline should boost their stock like crazy and keep them up long-term. So watch out for that.

Foppe posted...

https://youtu.be/k8YC7UQVmis

thanks for posting.

Dan_Haren- posted...

It doesn't make any sense for any european country to do this. They are pretty much all entering crisis mode due to exorbitantly high energy costs this winter. Its in all of their best interest to end this conflict and get natural gas through the pipeline. LNG is now their much more expensive alternative that they have to rely on. Its also in Russia's best interest to keep that partnership going after this war is over. The only culprit in Europe is Ukraine as a fuck you to Russia.

The US isn't dumb enough to do something like this. This does nothing to hurt Russia short term, and long-term it hurts European allies more than it hurts Russia. And our economy very much is interconnected with western europe. Many of our companies benefit from strong european economies.

Asia...its certainly possible an asian country could do it. This allows cheaper resources for them, from Russia, and potential for export to Europe. But again, economies are so interconnected. If europe does poorly, they won't import as much from China, because most of that is manufactured goods. Bed economy = less spending = less chinese imports.

Last but not least, I think the most likely culprit is not a particular nation, but a private company involved in shipping of LNG. Destroying this pipeline should boost their stock like crazy and keep them up long-term. So watch out for that.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/7/7/AAA_aCAADuhR.jpg

Dan_Haren- posted...

Last but not least, I think the most likely culprit is not a particular nation, but a private company involved in shipping of LNG. Destroying this pipeline should boost their stock like crazy and keep them up long-term. So watch out for that.

Well, there is this- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Pipe

Although, if I were to bet on a private company who would do this, I would definitely lean more toward one of the countless companies that would benefit from a continued conflict. So long as the pipeline was operational, it was a bargaining chip, and I could see how some might want to dissuade Europe from ceasing the conflict just because their people are freezing to death.

Although in reality, the more likely outcome is that we wont see massive amounts of deaths in Europe, but rather will see the lower and middle classes get financially squeezed until they are serfs, and a lot of people in poorer countries dying, so I guess it could also be Bill Gates.

NeoShadowhen posted...

but rather will see the lower and middle classes get financially squeezed until they are serfs

I haven't read about other countries' plans yet, but UK is already planning government subsidized price caps on energy. Germany is considering it. So that cost will allow these people to survive the winter. The problem is energy will be WAY more expensive this year than in the past because they have to import liquified natural gas. It'll be interesting to see how countries deal with it. Right now Germany might be the smartest european country in terms of leadership so we'll see what they do. UK and Italy's new leaderships are both fucking dumb, so both of those countries are fucked.

They have started to look at recorded ship activities close to the pipes in the last few days.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/2/2/AAA_aCAADuh-.png
That marked ship is Sedov, the largest traditional sailing ship in operation. Originally built as a German cargo ship, Sedov is today a sail training vessel, training cadets from the universities of Kaliningrad, Saint Petersburg and Astrakhan.
...but that is was there is nothing unusual. And the explosives could have been planted months ago. Many NATO ships have passed by, which is nothing unusual, but more have started to appear after Sweden/Finland got an interest in Joining NATO.
I would be surprised if any Chinese cargo ship havent passed in the last months as well. I know that a big one passed in 2020.

That said, an armed mine disposal unit, a SeaFox Atlas, was found close by in 2015 that the Swedish military blew up.

The BBC reported that Russia had removed their subs docked in Crimea about 10 days ago. Russia "claims" they were moving them to a different port but the timing is kind of suspicious since I imagine 8 or 9 days is a reasonable amount of time for a Russian sub to get from the black sea to the baltic sea.

It just doesn't make any sense to me for Russia or any European country to do it simply because if they didn't want the pipeline to be functional, they could have just shut off the valves themselves. And again, it really does hurt both regions. Absolutely no benefit whatsever.

Like, this is major infrastructure that will lead to massive amounts of financial losses for both parties, its not as simple as bombing a freeway or an empty building.

Dan_Haren- posted...

It just doesn't make any sense to me for Russia or any European country to do it simply because if they didn't want the pipeline to be functional, they could have just shut off the valves themselves. And again, it really does hurt both regions. Absolutely no benefit whatsever.

Like, this is major infrastructure that will lead to massive amounts of financial losses for both parties, its not as simple as bombing a freeway or an empty building.

It makes sense if Russia is really committing to total war and is no longer expecting normalized business relations in a year or two.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2022/09/27/nato-says-sabotage-behind-destruction-of-natural-gas-pipelines/?sh=75c64abe6162

The former Polish minister of defense tweeted "thank you United States" and then deleted the tweet after.

It's definitely Russia tho

There is an important electric cable between Sweden and Poland just 500 m from the Northern holes, it is unknown if it is damaged because it has been turned off for service.

anyone make a nordvpn joke yet?

TaylorHeinicke posted...

anyone make a nordvpn joke yet?

What about. Nord Stream gas leak anime girl?

s0nicfan posted...

It makes sense if Russia is really committing to total war and is no longer expecting normalized business relations in a year or two.

Again, they can simply shut the valve off. If anything it helps that they had the bargaining chip even if they didn't want to use it.

There's no way this is Russia cuz they get hurt the most of anyone.

I could see it being Iran or China or a number of other countries likely utilizing a drone launched from a shipping container which self-destructed after the final intended blast resulting in the 10-second "afterwave" indicated in the article.

Temporal posted...

The former Polish minister of defense tweeted "thank you United States" and then deleted the tweet after.

screw him. i hope bad non-life threatening karma comes his way.

Dan_Haren- posted...

Again, they can simply shut the valve off. If anything it helps that they had the bargaining chip even if they didn't want to use it.

There's no way this is Russia cuz they get hurt the most of anyone.

Could also be that Putin knows that if he's deposed, the new rulers will want to reinstate normal relations with the EU by offering to open the Nordstreams in exchange of loosening/dropping the sanctions, and so, by destroying the pipes Putin removes that bargaining chip from his potential successor(s).

Thompson posted...

Could also be that Putin knows that if he's deposed, the new rulers will want to reinstate normal relations with the EU by offering to open the Nordstreams in exchange of loosening/dropping the sanctions, and so, by destroying the pipes Putin removes that bargaining chip from his potential successor(s).

that makes way less sense than it being another entity.

Nord Stream 2 is now empty on gas.

Foppe posted...

Nord Stream 2 is now empty on gas.

Now known as No Stream 2.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/7/5/AAcZIZAADu-7.jpg

Dirty fucking trump loving Russians

gotta stop em all

Dan_Haren- posted...

Again, they can simply shut the valve off. If anything it helps that they had the bargaining chip even if they didn't want to use it.

There's no way this is Russia cuz they get hurt the most of anyone.

The pipeline, even turned off, contained 1,200 km of pipe filled with natural gas that could potentially have been siphoned on the European end in order to fill up reserves should they run out of gas during the winter. A few small holes that can be repaired in a few months seems more than worth the benefit of pushing EU further into an energy crisis at the most critical point of the war where Ukraine needs the most support.

Plus Russia was the one that turned it off and blamed it on sanctions in the first place, when the actual manufacturers said that the needed maintenance was simple and wouldn't have been impacted by sanctions. So the whole argument that Russia isn't comfortable turning off their money maker is complete bullshit given that they were the ones that have had it off this whole time.

s0nicfan posted...

A few small holes that can be repaired in a few months seems more than worth the benefit of pushing EU further into an energy crisis at the most critical point of the war where Ukraine needs the most support

3 of 4 pipes are damaged beyond repair, it is unknown if the fourth is safe to use.

Foppe posted...

3 of 4 pipes are damaged beyond repair, it is unknown if the fourth is safe to use.

That has no bearing on my point that the damaged pipeline segments could be repaired/replaced before the war is even over if work started in the near future. People need to stop acting like this was against Russia's interests. It's explicitly in line with their goals.

Ruvan22 posted...

Do you live in Europe?

Yeah, Germany

Also, it's definitely Russia imo, and the amount of Russia shilling in this topic is disgusting

Nord Stream 1 has stopped leaking as well.

s0nicfan posted...

Plus Russia was the one that turned it off and blamed it on sanctions in the first place, when the actual manufacturers said that the needed maintenance was simple and wouldn't have been impacted by sanctions. So the whole argument that Russia isn't comfortable turning off their money maker is complete bullshit given that they were the ones that have had it off this whole time.

I'm not sure if you understood my post.

I'm saying yes Russia turned it off, so why would they need to blow it up when they could just turn it off.

Russia blowing it up to avoid europe from siphoning off remaining gas seems dumb. I believe its on the order of 1% or less of volume in the actual pipe that gets moved per year. Russia is not that stupid. They know that this war will eventually end and they'll be fucked without this pipeline. Why? Because they can keep selling oil and natural gas to asia but they are getting it at a huge discount because theres no competition. Theres no way anyone in asia is paying full price for any russian commodities when theres no other buyers, currently due to sanctions, but in the future, due to infrastructure issues from this sabatoge.

Very little gain from russia with devastating long-term consequences.

Russia is easy to blame but theres absolutely no logical reason other than "lol must be russia they are crazy"

Anyone give me just ONE good reason how this helps Russia medium or long term?

Is this polluting the ocean or what?

Somehow the leak from Nord Stream 2 has been bigger.