Board 8 > Dota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 1 - A Moba Mafia of Moderate Mayhem

(+) Yeah! (+)

##Vote: Lea

Why are you not addressing this statement?

Kirby321 posted...

I imagine Lea's role also has similar quirks, and if we're both truthful, those specific quirks don't need to be discussed this early into the game.

I refuse to answer questions about my role until I get a straight answer from Lea on whether or not she's a pure Miller.

See now thats closer to 'spicy'

htaeD posted...

I'd argue HB has a timezone defense incoming, Mzero. But I will at least agree that his post has that same 'forced' quality as Sultans first posts.

Ok I will admit that I didn't realize an hour passed between Hb's post and the next post

MZero posted...

this is good questioning from death, moving him to the town pile

It's a good question for scum to ask. I don't see the benefit for town to ask that question. If I say yes, scum would now have zero incentive to shoot me to make use of my power.

What does town stand to gain from prying that deep into my role?

So you do not want to answer to this?

ctesjbuvf posted...

What does this even mean. You're saying your role is not named miller but it works the same? Or are you saying you are not only miller, like how Lea in the aforementioned game was Miller Backup?

I'm not asking what your quirks are.

Kirby321 posted...

It's a good question for scum to ask. I don't see the benefit for town to ask that question. If I say yes, scum would now have zero incentive to shoot me to make use of my power.

What does town stand to gain from prying that deep into my role?

I have my reasons but I'll let death answer for himself first

ctesjbuvf posted...

So you do not want to answer to this?

I'm not asking what your quirks are.

I want Lea to answer first before I say anything else. She counterclaimed Miller, and I want to make sure she's being truthful.

But I'm not even asking you to state any new information! I'm just asking you to explain what you meant by what you've already said.

All you needed to say was that your Miller was a modifier sheesh. No need to be so defensive. If you had said your role wasn't a modifier, I'd have been skeptical.

So now it's definitely not out of the question that we're both Town. Two Millers, each with their own (presumably) unique powers, be they active or passive.

Does that answer your question now, Ctes?

##Unvote

Kirby321 posted...

It's a good question for scum to ask. I don't see the benefit for town to ask that question. If I say yes, scum would now have zero incentive to shoot me to make use of my power.

What does town stand to gain from prying that deep into my role?

Insight for one. Resolution of possible contradictions for another

That contradiction being (which is now more interesting to me due to your posts just now)why did you plan to draw a scumkill?

... You know, what are the odds we have the exact same role lmao
I highly doubt it, but it would be funny

In any case, you seem genuine, Lea, and I hope this makes it clear to everybody that you and I are both town.

Better yet. Trying to draw a scum kill means essentially lying to the game and to town.

How would lying to town actually play out knowing that you also scan guilty?

And for good measure, what was the purpose of telling the game of a plan you had and ultimately chose not to use?

It sounds like your answer is that you are miller and something else. But why would you describe that as being "effectively miller" when it's exactly that?

UltimaterializerX posted...

Someone mentioned we have a confirmed third party. Where was this confirmed?

Someone = Corrik

Confirmed? = No

Kirby321 posted...

I also realized I got completely mixed up between Ben's Miller fakeclaim in Baseball Musical Mafia with Lea's Untargetable from Nickelodeon Mafia. I don't remember which specific game it was, but I remember some people were being knuckleheads and saying "omg why would you claim that so early that's so anti-town" or whatever. Perhaps Lea came to mind because she did get lynched in Nickelodeon Mafia eventually with the whole Untargetable thing being a sticking point for Ulti IIRC.

This makes even less sense to me

Tell me specifically

What about these claims did you recall that you felt made it helpful to town when they claimed them, since that's what made you want to claim early

htaeD posted...

That contradiction being (which is now more interesting to me due to your posts just now)why did you plan to draw a scumkill?

*sigh*

I was hoping no one was gonna question that and just leave it as "Oh he's Miller of course he wants to bait a scum shot."

But clearly you're seeing through the illusion I've crafted to keep scum on their toes, and I'd very much like to keep that vague. So I'll address it by stating two possibilities:

1) My role is useless and wouldn't be missed at all if I were shot, or
2) I was lying to make it seem like the former, when in actuality, my role is really good and I just wanted to get scum off my back.

That's all I'm gonna say. Directly saying which of the two possibilities it is will benefit only scum.

UltimaterializerX posted...

I dont see the scum equity in Kirby or Lea fake claiming miller whatever.

Someone mentioned we have a confirmed third party. Where was this confirmed?

Wait what?

Kirby321 posted...

*sigh*

I was hoping no one was gonna question that and just leave it as "Oh he's Miller of course he wants to bait a scum shot."

But clearly you're seeing through the illusion I've crafted to keep scum on their toes, and I'd very much like to keep that vague. So I'll address it by stating two possibilities:

1) My role is useless and wouldn't be missed at all if I were shot, or
2) I was lying to make it seem like the former, when in actuality, my role is really good and I just wanted to get scum off my back.

That's all I'm gonna say. Directly saying which of the two possibilities it is will benefit only scum.

Well it was bound to be questioned. But those answers will do for now I think.

Lopen posted...

What about these claims did you recall that you felt made it helpful to town when they claimed them, since that's what made you want to claim early

Wasted scans. Suppose a scanning role targeted me one night and outed themselves because they thought I was scum from their scans. Would you have believed I was actually Miller if I only said so after getting guilty scanned?

I think Ben was the one who used that logic in Baseball Musical Mafia. Lea's Untargetable fell under the same logic, and that game is burned into my memory because I'm still salty we lost an otherwise completely solved game lol

htaeD posted...

Well it was bound to be questioned. But those answers will do for now I think.

Why on earth would that do? He didn't say anything!

Death = scum.

Isquen posted...

Town weed out non-town players and eliminate them using the abilities provided to you and your votes.
Mafia gank other players at night and use coordinated tactics to get them to turn on themselves.

Ohh okay yeah that makes sense

Kirby321 posted...

Wasted scans. Suppose a scanning role targeted me one night and outed themselves because they thought I was scum from their scans. Would you have believed I was actually Miller if I only said so after getting guilty scanned?

This is GENERAL but in your opening post you implied it was SPECIFIC

Lopen's play is reminding me of Changmas is Taunter Mafia.
Red entering to tell Sultan that he shouldn't host is like, classic Scum Red deciding to not play the game.
I absolutely hated SBell's first post, but the others haven't been as offensive.

ctesjbuvf posted...

It sounds like your answer is that you are miller and something else. But why would you describe that as being "effectively miller" when it's exactly that?

Technically a Miller without powers is just a "Miller", not a "Miller Vanilla".

Really, it was just kinda fluff to see how Lea would respond in turn. Had she been lying, I would've found her claim inconsistent with the actual details of my role, not simply how I described it.

Also, after Star Wars Mafia, I've generally been adverse to claiming and want to keep my role hidden as much as possible. Yes, I realize that's a product of Chris's influence that game, and he was third-party, but the logic was sound. Why give scum more information than they needed to know?

In this case, however, I judged that it would be better for town to know that I'm a Miller sooner rather than later.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Lopen's play is reminding me of Changmas is Taunter Mafia.

As opposed to what? Please elaborate on why you consider it similar in contrast to other games you've seen me in.

Lopen posted...

This is GENERAL but in your opening post you implied it was SPECIFIC

Well now the burden of proof lies on you.

What about my post implied that I had a specific reason to claim early that contradicts my "general" purpose?

Lopen posted...

As opposed to what? Please elaborate on why you consider it similar in contrast to other games you've seen me in.

I won't.

I will only elaborate on why I consider it similar in comparison to other games I've seen you in.

Well then elaborate on that if you would.

Kirby321 posted...

What about my post implied that I had a specific reason to claim early that contradicts my "general" purpose?

Kirby321 posted...

When I got my PM, I was debating on whether I should try and bait a shot from Mafia, but every time I've done that in the past, Mafia never took my bait. So I doubt it would've worked here. I figured I'd follow Lea's precedent from Nickelodeon Mafia and reveal my Miller role immediately to avoid investigative roles outing themselves over me.

Yes it says "avoid investigative roles outing themselves" but let's ignore that

You said you were to follow "precedent" which to me implies you thought it was specifically helpful in a recent game when town did this. Why?

Looking back on my opening post... Lopen, what the hell are you on about?

Kirby321 posted...

This is gonna be fun is what it is. I may not have played DotA 2, but I liked the MOBA terminology sprinkled into the introduction lol

Anyway, I don't believe I see anything about an anti-claim mechanic in the rules, so I'm just gonna say right now that I'm a Miller.

When I got my PM, I was debating on whether I should try and bait a shot from Mafia, but every time I've done that in the past, Mafia never took my bait. So I doubt it would've worked here. I figured I'd follow Lea's precedent from Nickelodeon Mafia and reveal my Miller role immediately to avoid investigative roles outing themselves over me.

##Vote: Lopen

His questioning came off to me as meaningless prattle, but now I can see he's definitely spouting fluff just to appear productive. If he had actually read my opening post, he would've already had the answers to his question.

Lopen posted...

Well then elaborate on that if you would.

I'll have to do it later.

You spent a day as Scum hounding a Town Red for posts he made - how do you compare that Red with this current one?

Lopen posted...

Yes it says "avoid investigative roles outing themselves" but let's ignore that

You said you were to follow "precedent" which to me implies you thought it was specifically helpful in a recent game when town did this. Why?

No wtf you can't just ignore that specific line that answers your question

This line of questioning is inane. That is the "precedent" if you're gonna fixate on that particular word.

Lea claimed Untargetable to avoid wasted scans.
Ben fake claimed Miller for similar reasons while also trying to game the anti-claim mechanic. In actuality, wasn't his real role also Untargetable?

Like, why do I have to spell this out for you. This is pointless.

Kirby321 posted...

Technically a Miller without powers is just a "Miller", not a "Miller Vanilla".

Really, it was just kinda fluff to see how Lea would respond in turn. Had she been lying, I would've found her claim inconsistent with the actual details of my role, not simply how I described it.

Sure, but a Miller Cop is still miller and not just essentially miller. Also you basically explained to Lea what she had to say for you to believe her.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Wait so you initially counterclaimed him just for the miller part, but now you're humoring having the exact same role both of you?

Lopen posted...

Why on earth would that do? He didn't say anything!

Death = scum.

It locks him into a story from which he cant walk back out of. Admittedly I am trying to balance how much I want to know with how much I'd want scum to know if kirby is town

Kirby321 posted...

Lea claimed Untargetable to avoid wasted scans.
Ben fake claimed Miller for similar reasons while also trying to game the anti-claim mechanic. In actuality, wasn't his real role also Untargetable?

Like, why do I have to spell this out for you. This is pointless.

Because "avoiding scanners wasting scans on you" is literally the basic reason to early claim miller

Why specifically mention a past game unless it is relevant and not something that's just fluff?

Lea and I are Miller Masonbuddies now, ctes. Don't question it and just trust us

I will say the precedent for millers was set eons ago.
I also don't know if Lea claiming untargetable is really the same (or was the best move. But thats not relevant)

ctesjbuvf posted...

Sure, but a Miller Cop is still miller and not just essentially miller. Also you basically explained to Lea what she had to say for you to believe her.

Wait so you initially counterclaimed him just for the miller part, but now you're humoring having the exact same role both of you?

Looks like Ctes is fishing for something here

Lopen, I don't enjoy repeating myself.

Kirby321 posted...

I don't remember which specific game it was, but I remember some people were being knuckleheads and saying "omg why would you claim that so early that's so anti-town" or whatever. Perhaps Lea came to mind because she did get lynched in Nickelodeon Mafia eventually with the whole Untargetable thing being a sticking point for Ulti IIRC.

... In other words, I'm naturally verbose, sure, but I made a long justification for my claim because I anticipated that the reaction would be negative from some people (who could end up making important decisions in the endgame). Turns out writing so much ended up being the thing people take issue with, of all things lol

Frankly, some players run around like headless chickens at times, myself included. I don't want Nickelodeon Mafia to repeat itself.

Here's a different question.

If it is general

1. Why mention Lea's precedent at all?
2. Do you think town wasting scans on you is more likely than scum nightkilling you if you remained unclaimed? If so, why?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


He already made it clear he wasn't just ordinary miller last night though, you were still on him then. He didn't really elaborate on much now.

And it's not necessarily risky either, scum can have roles that could just as well be town. Last role madness game Chris gave them a safelist of roles he promised were not in the game and some of them were easy to fake with the abilities scum had.

I was more wary of Kirby because he seemed to try to reach the conclusion that you were both town, as I just said he explained what needed to happen for him to believe you, but I'm not liking how easy you flipped on him either.

Kirby321 posted...

All you needed to say was that your Miller was a modifier sheesh. No need to be so defensive. If you had said your role wasn't a modifier, I'd have been skeptical.

Hold on, why would specifically not having a modifier make you suspicious in a role madness game? The last one had multiple roles that were "just someone else's role but better".