Current Events > Dems snuck in the ability for the EPA to stop greenhouse gases in the IRA bill

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://twitter.com/mike10010100/status/1562101630459416577

more shit like this gop literally doesnt read bills

Uh oh. Joe Manchin about to lose his greenhouse gas-funded Joe Mansion.

Dark Brandon strikes again

Please let more slick moves like that come in the near future.

Halo478 posted...

more shit like this gop literally doesnt read bills

The GOP was pretty open about the fact that the Inflation Reduction Act was a climate bill with a fun name.

At first I thought the topic title was a typo and everyone was just referring to it as the IRS bill now.

ThePrinceFish posted...

the Inflation Reduction Act was a climate bill with a fun name.

You say that like it's a bad thing

ThePrinceFish posted...

The GOP was pretty open about the fact that the Inflation Reduction Act was a climate bill with a fun name.

You don't fight inflation by making everything cost more.

ThePrinceFish posted...

The GOP was pretty open about the fact that the Inflation Reduction Act was a climate bill with a fun name.

helping the planet is good im sure once all the old hat republicans die off we will still need clean air and water its a great measure tbh

Questionmarktarius posted...

You don't fight inflation by making everything cost more.

You don't fight inflation by fucking dying, either.

Questionmarktarius posted...

You don't fight inflation by making everything cost more.

So the IRA bill increases the costs of everything?

"Economic issues, infrastructure, and the environment should be ignored because inflation" is peak conservative

Doom_Art posted...

"Economic issues, infrastructure, and the environment should be ignored because inflation" is peak conservative

Alt right talking points are always to deflect thats why they should be put on ignore

In fairness, while Question is a randian loon, I can't call him alt right

Doom_Art posted...

In fairness, while Question is a randian loon, I can't call him alt right

Believe he was at one point, but recently became disillusioned. Still on that ayn rand kick though.

COVxy posted...

Believe he was at one point, but recently became disillusioned. Still on that ayn rand kick though.

I still read Salvatore novels, we all have a soft spot for shitty fantasy we read as teenagers.

DrizztLink posted...

I still read Salvatore novels, we all have a soft spot for shitty fantasy we read as teenagers.

Read all 19 New Jedi Order books

I know that feel

Doom_Art posted...

"Economic issues, infrastructure, and the environment should be ignored because inflation" is peak conservative

It's not tax cuts for the rich (which won't even help them anyway) so they don't like it.

i like how the GOP folks are calling this legislation that addresses the SCOTUS ruling that the EPA must be empowered by legislation in order to curb greenhouse gases a trick

but the GOP was fully aware, there was a multi-hour debate in front of the parliamentarian on this issue

Ruvan22 posted...

So the IRA bill increases the costs of everything?

The new natural gas fees will filter down to the average household fairly quickly, as well as raise the price of everything that uses natural gas at any point in the supply chain.

why are you all acting surprised? Politicians have been doing this for decades >_> They love slipping in a line in a 200 page document. Politics is just a big game

Questionmarktarius posted...

The new natural gas fees will filter down to the average household fairly quickly, as well as raise the price of everything that uses natural gas at any point in the supply chain.

i think we all know that reducing the deficit by a mere 300-400 billion was never actually going to curb inflation meaningfully, and if there's not some pain to the end user in a climate bill, there's not actually going to be any reduction in long term consequences

but let's be real: natural gas is STUPID CHEAP.

https://www.macrotrends.net/2478/natural-gas-prices-historical-chart

When the right is trying to destroy America and the left is trying to save it

Sackgurl posted...

i think we all know that reducing the deficit by a mere 300-400 billion was never actually going to curb inflation meaningfully

That's not even going to happen anyway. The alleged 15% corporate tax exists only on paper, and will be evaded gratuitously.

Questionmarktarius posted...

That's not even going to happen anyway. The alleged 15% corporate tax exists only on paper, and will be evaded gratuitously.

as is the current corporate tax; evasion rates do not increase with increased tax, they increase with decreased IRS funding

and the bill massively increases IRS funding so no you're wrong

Sackgurl posted...

and the bill massively increases IRS funding so no you're wrong

The IRS is not going after Disney or Walmart. It's all going to be easy targets, with more than a few "structuring" cases in the pile.

The IRA is seeming like a better bill by the day.

I personally am looking forward more to the Roth IRA bill, though.

Questionmarktarius posted...

The new natural gas fees will filter down to the average household fairly quickly, as well as raise the price of everything that uses natural gas at any point in the supply chain.

You frequently paint "all or nothing" scenarios and the forget/refuse to explain them - to what degree will the natural gas fees overcome the other reductions? As Sackgurl pointed out, natural gas is insanely cheap...

Questionmarktarius posted...

The IRS is not going after Disney or Walmart. It's all going to be easy targets, with more than a few "structuring" cases in the pile.

Again a "these are the only two possible options" - but for the sake of your argument, what are some past instances of companies having large restructuring to avoid tax increases? I asked you the same question in other threads and you missed or ignored it...

yeah boy

Sackgurl posted...

as is the current corporate tax; evasion rates do not increase with increased tax, they increase with decreased IRS funding

and the bill massively increases IRS funding so no you're wrong

The new tax is a minimum. Meaning after all tax avoidance is applied, if it's less than 15% it gets raised to 15%

COVxy posted...

Believe he was at one point, but recently became disillusioned. Still on that ayn rand kick though.

I wonder how he feels about Ayn Rand utilizing the very social programs she railed against when she was dying?

Ruvan22 posted...

but for the sake of your argument, what are some past instances of companies having large restructuring to avoid tax increases?

Reincorporating in Ireland is a go-to

mybbqrules posted...

I wonder how he feels about Ayn Rand utilizing the very social programs she railed against when she was dying?

Turning down free money "because principles" is just dumb.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Turning down free money "because principles" is just dumb.

So how much is the libertarian ideology worth these days?

50,000 good enough to turn your back on your entire philosophy, or do we need another zero to really drive home how self-serving and idiotic the libertarian belief system is?

Libertarianism is a stupid fucking belief system

Question, is there any method of tax increase that you'd find acceptable?

DarthAragorn posted...

Libertarianism is a stupid fucking belief system

They vote conservative almost always just a lazy republican

NeonOctopus posted...

why are you all acting surprised? Politicians have been doing this for decades >_> They love slipping in a line in a 200 page document. Politics is just a big game

In this case, the result of the game is increasing the chances of avoiding the worst impacts of climate change. You can phrase it your way to make it seem petty and unimportant, but it isn't.

emblem-man posted...

Question, is there any method of tax increase that you'd find acceptable?

Gasoline tax.
Think of how much less (or at least smarter) sprawl there'd be if the gas tax paid just for the roads, and the roads were funded just by the gas tax. Definitely a fan of the "lockbox" concept.

There was a gas tax vote in my state that failed, because it was sold as "fix the roads! ...and fund cops".

Questionmarktarius posted...

The IRS is not going after Disney or Walmart.

this is the most wrong you've ever been and we've talked a lot

the IRS audit rate on private citizens is 0.4% if your (reported) income is not zero or over a million dollars

the IRS audit rate on corporations with > 20 billion in assets is 50%

in 2010 when it was better funded (with 35% more staff than 2017), it was ~90%

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/0/1/AAZtnkAADmJt.png

the IRS literally has made public their process for selecting which large corporations undergo an audit

https://www.frazierdeeter.com/insights/irs-unveils-new-process-for-selecting-large-corporations-for-audit/

if anything the trend towards them auditing big corporations less is pretty clearly driven by not having the staffing/funding to fight those battles, so giving them that funding would result in a reversal of the trend

something i want to emphasize for the next time you read a free article on how the IRS targets the poorest families (sponsored by koch industries!) is that the audit rate for families that report income from 1-25,000 is minimally different from that of anyone earning under 500,000 and half of that of people earning over 500,000

the entirety of the narrative is built on the IRS's (rational) high rate of audits on people who report no positive income whatsoever

as a point of comparison, there's 600k such returns in this category, vs 56 million returns in the 1-25,000 category

so it's not "millions of poor families being oppressed by the evil IRS"

it's the tiny subcategory of returns that is highly likely to contain very obvious attempts at EITC fraud--low hanging fruit. but all the sponsored content you'll see wants you thinking about is how funding the IRS is bad because it hurts poor people somehow, and don't worry too much about how or if that's even true!

https://www.irs.gov/about-irs/irs-audit-rates-significantly-increase-as-income-rises

Sackgurl posted...

https://www.frazierdeeter.com/insights/irs-unveils-new-process-for-selecting-large-corporations-for-audit/

Well there you go.
I guess the hyberbole got a bit too hyperbolic this time. Sorry about that.

no worries. this is an example of why i continue to be happy to engage with you: our perspectives differ, but you're here with an open mind. i'll make a point of it to keep mine more open too.

also certain libertarian friends of mine are parroting this same idea so you're not the only one who the sponsored content is getting to, there's definitely a very well-funded propaganda machine making sure a false message is getting out there

The other side of this, is that poor people will not be targeted. There's no useful purpose in squeezing a few hundred in "lost" taxes and an arbitrary amount of fines out of broke EZ filers who just have that money anyway.

yup. the IRS funding approach is really the most creative, least harmful method of federal fund-raising possible.

This is why despite his wacky politics I really appreciate Question lol

Will they be banning Spielberg's private jet and other celebrities' private jets?

Why are people acting like the GOP had a say in this bill passing. I thought it was widely known the reason this bill didnt get passed for a while was because Sinema and Manchin werent voting for it. They flipped and it passed. It wasnt a GOP didnt read the bill lol at them thing.

Sackgurl posted...

yup. the IRS funding approach is really the most creative, least harmful method of federal fund-raising possible.

I think the idea here is basically a Tarkin Doctrine: "Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station."
Asstons of (armed) agents aren't raiding Disney. The very fact that they can means Disney isn't fudging the numbers quite so much anymore.

Dark Brandon > Joe Biden

Doom_Art posted...

This is why despite his wacky politics I really appreciate Question lol

Yup