Board 8 > ITT I Rate The Best Playable Appearance Of Every Smash Character

(+) Yeah! (+)

Pit

Isaac

pac-man

Kamekguy posted...

or the shopkeeper from Star Fox Adventures.

Love that guy.

"Now hurry up and choose something, or get out!"

Nintendog

I just want to give a +1 to the Meta Knightmare Returns shoutout. Seriously one of the best modes in a Kirby game and one of my favorite speedruns period.

Kamekguy posted...

the shopkeeper from Star Fox Adventures.

Ill forever be loyal to the Please with C guy, but this freaky dude rules too.

Klaptrap

The Koopalongs

Kamek

(given your user name I assume you have opinions about him.)

Anagram posted...

The Koopalongs

The Oopa Koopas

Paratroopa

Bowser Jr - Mario Strikers Charged

Juniors kind of a mid, off-meta pick in Baseball. Hes got an okay singles bat, can hit a home run if Bowsers on base but otherwise isnt a threat, (which isnt uncommon, Bowser gets walked all the time, but hes inferior to any of the Bros in that role) and he has Wall Jump so he can deny Home Runs sometimes but is the worst character in the game at doing it. Junior kind of does everything sub-par and is only really relevant for his chemistry with Bowser, making him a tech option if a Bowser captain drafts Birdo, who needs the team star bonus that good chemistry gives. So he gets the other real good Mario Sports game.

Strikers Charged gives the little guy so much attitude. Hes got the whole spoiled brat vibe down here, breakdancing when he enters the field, pretending to be intimidating like his dad, one of my favorite animations in the whole game is him kicking a goalpost in frustration and then realizing, ow thats metal, and hopping around in pain before pouting like hes not having fun anymore. Fabulous little bits of characterization there. His specials arent as strong as other captains at guaranteeing Mega Strikes - for some reason they gave Junior a banshees screech gimmick this game to represent childish wailing, fits his character well but the magic shrinky voice isnt as effective as the reverse-controls fart cloud or Daisy becoming a geomancer - but I think everything is neatly on-flavor. I think Juniors just a fun member of the cast, nicely balanced. A lot of games seem to be placing him in the Koopa Clown Car and making Juniors actual contribution incidental, and I kind of miss when he was an athletic little ninja shit kid.

Best Smash Appearance: Ultimate - Bowser Jr is kind of a perfect representation of a Mario boss. Hes got a bunch of predictable projectiles to throw out, has a bunch of well-telegraphed movement options, he even has a specific weak point with moves that hit Junior dealing more damage than those that hit the Clown Copter! All of the flavor is right with Junior except for that Final Smash. Dont get me wrong, it works just fine for Bowser Jr, a bit underwhelming in power and confusing as to what it actually does, but he is THE Mario Sunshine character, thats what he SHOULD be doing. The issue is that it doesnt work at all for any of his seven Koopaling alts, and none of his other moves reference Sunshine in the slightest. Just little things, like having his Gaddbrush instead of his hammer, or leaving icky paint-like goop behind when he uses the Clown Car as a Clown Kart, or having it vomit out goop instead of its weird tongue attack, would go a long way in solidifying that connection. Hell, it would do a lot to shore up his moveset, too - in focusing so much in being a Mario boss, Junior has a lot of moves that are just solid single hits with very few follow-ups. It fits the characterization great, but it devotes everything into this single interpretation of the character as a Mario boss rather than Bowser Jr except the Final Smash, again. I think the Koopaling alts are holding Junoir back from a more interesting take on this character, who could slow opponents to more easily hit them with his predictable traps, and Junior is likewise holding back the Koopalings from having a big, showy Final Smash that could reference the Mario 3 airships or any of their other heights. Whats here is still good, it still works and fulfills everything its setting out to do, but its merely great when devoting the design to either Junior or the Koopalings completely would make it excellent. B

Jigglypuff - Super Smash Bros. Melee

Jigglypuff is one of the best joke characters in fighting games. Like, its either her, Dan, or Neko-Arc, no one else comes close to the throne of perfect jokes.

Jigglypuff is a lot more subtle than the other two, though; shes a huge prank on all of the mechanics of Smash Bros. What, you want us to platform in your fighting game? Heres a character who never wants to touch the ground, ignoring stage layouts almost entirely. You have a unique shielding mechanic? Heres a character who takes her balloon inspirations to heart and pops if you guard break her, killing her instantly. Heres a move that puts you to sleep for an absurd amount of time, but if you hit it juuust right on an opponent, can kill them instantly hope they dont respawn too fast and punish you horribly! Here is the fastest movement option in the entire game on a character with absurdly bad walk speed. It is useless and can kill you, but its SO FAST! Jigglypuff is a character who looks at the fundamentals of Smash Bros and goes no thanks, doing her own thing. She doesnt care about being viable or being true to her character in the Pokemon series, all that matters is taking the simple joke of its a balloon and making it as ridiculously annoying to fight as possible. Jigglypuff does not change for anyone, only the systems of the Smash game around her changes, and if she HAPPENS to be good, then shes absolutely devastating. And if not, shes usually one of the worst in the game. The scale on which you grade Jigglypuff does not function like any other Smash character; she has a dedicated kit, and either it works, has really good advantage, or is awful, with impressively little middleground. I do like the changes Ultimate made to Sing, making it actually usable at a casual level for the first time in its life, but man. I never want Jigglypuff changed to be more accurate to Pokemon. I never want Jigglypuff taken out of Smash. Give me this toxic little gremlin forever. A

Best Non-Smash Appearance: Pokemon Gold/Silver - You can actually get Jigglypuff right at the very begging of Gold & Silver, right at that tail end of Route 46 that you have access to between New Bark and Cherrygrove. Jigglypuffs kind of a miserable Pokemon in RBY, only knowing Sing for the longest time and generally being inferior Clefairy in almost all regards. But Gold and Silver, oh man, Jigglypuff is awesome. Fast leveling rate means itll always stay competitive and potentially overleveled compared to everything around it. Johto has a big problem with elemental stones, but Sun and Moon stones are always the exception, giving Jigglypuff access to Wigglytuff nice and early. And best of all, Jigglypuff can learn all three of the elemental punches from the Goldenrod Department Store. This makes Jigglypuff invaluably flexible, even compared to other Normal types, as a swiss army knife special attacker who can also delve other strats as your team needs it. Defense Curl/Rollout is an option, Sing is always a great hail mary move that sets your team up for success, Body Slam and Headbutt are always great options that are very often on the table. I ended up soloing Lance with a Level 47 Wigglytuff solely using Sing strats and the right punches landed at the right time, and it felt AWESOME. Totally turned me around on using the Pokemon in-game, do recommend, waaaaay more fun than the Togepi option the game gives you for free.

Pit - Kid Icarus: Uprising

Is it controversial at all to say the Kid Icarus games sucked before Uprising? Not even in a good for their time sense, either, just outright sucked. Long, vertical stages where half of the difficulty is that you drag the death plane up with you and can screw yourself by jumping to the wrong platforms, obtuse shopping and bonus mechanics that are neat when you understand them, but even Zelda 1 would call them wildly ambitious. Extensive labyrinths with constant trips back to the in-labyrinth hospital whenever you get turned into produce. When it turns into Gradius its pretty fun, but I have to play the whole game to get there. And Of Myths and Monsters was just that but slightly better, but with a smaller screen.

And then Uprising is the best game to ever cause me physical pain, and I hold Ring Fit Adventure in pretty high regard (its an RPG where your own physical fitness is your MP Bar, thats really clever!). While creating hand cramps way too easily, the Uprising control scheme is super intuitive, figuring out that proper balance between being able to aim and being able to dodge, allowing trickier patterns to be executed for both. Land battles are a tad less inspiring, merely being okay at a base, but the customization and flexibility given by the sheer number of powers and weapons makes changing up your gameplay style a breeze. It promotes both sticking with one weapon thats your tried and true favorite and switching things up constantly, leading to a wonderful sense of experimentation that stays juuuust fresh and varied enough to last through the entire game. And how they reinvented Pit? Oh, the kids an absolute delight. Unshakable optimism with just enough genre savviness to not fall into the simplest and dumbest writing pitfalls of his archetype, Pit knows hes an idiot, but fully believes hes on the right side and follows his moral compass undaunted by anything. Its a refreshing level of awareness for a protagonist, and lets him bounce off of the rest of the cast incredibly well. Absolutely fantastic revival of the character, what a turnaround from his humble beginnings.

Best Smash Appearance: Ultimate - Pits fine. He actually has some fantastic animations, the way his little arm-rings turn into his arrows of light are stupidly smooth for just having a few frames to sell the animation, and the way his blades and bow combine and separate into various moves is certainly a feat that no one will appreciate the team pulling off. And while his Smash 4 appearance is definitely greatly improved from HI-YI-YI-YAAH in Brawl it feels a bit limited? Pit gets the chance to fully remix his moveset with maybe the largest weapon arsenal available to a protag save for Link and Snake, and he settles for a shield to replace his shield and an uppercut that deflects projectiles from a magic ring that deflects projectiles. Hes not bad in any way, its just very clear a ton of work was done on his Brawl shell and the team didnt want to replace TOO much of what was there. But man, the POTENTIAL for a Pit moveset that isnt just multi-hits that only sometimes link into each other is tremendous. And like Dark Pit is right there. You can keep him as the legacy Pit just fine and make the main one experiment with all of the potential avenues he has to pursue. Arrows of Light are a surprisingly fun to control projectile (really good timing from when youre guiding them to when you regain control of Pit), but thats really all that stands out about Pit. And he could be so, so much more. Palutenas Guidance is fabulous, though, keep that going as long as possible. D+

Isaac - Golden Sun

This is gonna be more of an apology from me than anything. For years, I have thought very little of Golden Sun. Ive always viewed it as a generic little RPG with cute little 3D model sprites that harkened back to PS1-style RPGs and let the novelty of that style of game being replicated on a handheld carry it. I have always viewed it as an inferior game to Mario Golf: Advance Tour for the award of Best GBA Camelot RPG, and the idea of essentially selling Disc 2 as a separate game has always appalled me. So Isaac not getting into Smash was never something that bothered me, and honestly amused me at the time. But Im realizing thats really dumb behavior, so Id more like to ask; whats the appeal of Golden Sun? It still hold up? Because these days, I could use shorter-form RPGs, theyre neat. Anyway, Isaac in Smash is neat, way better of a push you around guy than Kyogre or whatever other Pokemon just shove you to death, theres at least some level of counterplay and creativity to Isaac. Weird that he doesnt have a move where he just mimics Master Hand, though; if youre gonna be the hands, might as well go all the way.

Pac-Man - Pac-Man Championship Edition DX

Look, I could talk about how Ms. Pac-Man is better because it was at the pizza place I grew up at and the higher speed made going back to the regular Pac-Man unplayable. I could talk about how Pac-Man World 2 is a decent 3D platformer that, at the very least, deserves to be remembered more fondly than stuff like Ty the Tasmanian Tiger or Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg (those games are fine, Pac-Man World 2 is actually good). I could talk about how Pac-Man 2: The New Adventures is a nightmarish combination of Putt-Putt Saves The Zoos click on everything mentality, Lemmings lack of control as everything spirals to its death, and the slowly degrading hellscape of Takeshis Challenge making even the most basic of tasks an ordeal, creating something truly incredible. But that pales in comparison to going yeah the neon Pac-Man with the fancy gameplay mix-ups, remixed board and pellet patterns, and dreamscape-like presentation? Thats the one. Really, I have nothing to add to that. Its a perfectly zen experience with the highest caliber of tension that screams everything that makes Pac-Man good.

Best Smash Appearance: Ultimate -Im glad that instead of a horrible grab, they gave him a good grab, that was really nice. In any case, Pac-Man is just about as good as you can make a character with absolutely no character to him. He references being a pizza constantly so as to not be incredibly in-your-face with his less recognizable World design (that hes had for longer than he hasnt had it by now, but shush). He serves as a mascot for Namco as a whole by weaponizing its arsenal, with the ghosts being his Smash Attacks being particularly inspired. He hits all the notes youd want the character to while being as much of a company man as he could possibly be short of having an EWGF. Hed be absolutely fine and yeah, I guess he should be here if he wasnt so weirdly multi-faceted. Somehow, Pac-Mans weird grab bag of a moveset fits together, letting the guy put out just enough random distractions to pull out something special. The sheer flexibility that Bonus Fruit allows for means that he always gets some nutty set-ups, making for probably the most interesting item play character in the game. I do think that, if theyre gonna use the Pac-Man World design, he should probably have the Rev Roll or Butt Bounce somewhere in there, those games were beloved enough to deserve so much as a nod, but Pac-Man is a fascinating character to watch competitively, if only because theres some dirty shenanigans afoot. Fascinating way to make the guy more than the sum of his parts. A

Kamekguy posted...

Not even in a good for their time sense, either, just outright sucked.

The average game was bad enough that as long as you played well you were good, and KI played well enough. Like it's actually a top 10 game of 87, even if that's more of an indictment of the times. But I think that has to count as good for your time.

edit: Looking at the list of 87 games...eh it's arguable Kid Icarus isn't even top 10, but it's fine

I'd rather play Kid Icarus than Metroid. And Zelda 2, I think. Uprising is definitely the only truly great game in that series though.

Knuckle Joe

Kamekguy posted...

Pac-Man - Pac-Man Championship Edition DX

Another correct rating.

I think what gets me about Kid Icarus is how unfriendly it is in general. Pit's got a weird slide to him, the first level has so many chokepoints where you're squeezed in between a reaper and a hard place. If it came out one year later with vertical scrolling ala Doki Doki Panic, or even Metroid, I think it'd be a much stronger game. Metroid at least lets you get your foot in the door before it kicks your ass with obtuse maps; KI requires a huge up-front investment of time learning the basic mechanics and feel before you can get an even adequate run in that I think puts it in that Simon's Quest pool of "... oh THAT'S how I'm supposed to be playing it". Not quite as dull as that, of course, Icarus has the decency to always be action-focused, but in a similar vein of "oh this is how the game is actually supposed to be fun".

Nintendog - Nintendogs

Im sure this was very, very good for those who really wanted a pet, but could not afford to or otherwise were unable to provide for one. Its great that a game like this exists. But this came after Chao Garden, and I would rather feed peacocks to larval water gods to make them race in the crab pool than drag my dog away from trash. Its a simple and good feedback loop that hit the mobile game feel a few years before mobile games became a thing. Actually, why isnt there a Nintendogs mobile? That seems like a pretty sure bet, a lot more than Dr. Mario World was! In any case, of the screen obscuring Assist Trophies, I like Nintendog less than Mr. Resetti but more than Nightmare, having CUTE DOGGY is a bit more interesting than pure darkness. I think the Labrador Retriever variant was the most successful, its just got those universally adorable puppy eyes, but the french bulldog and toy poodle are definitely cute as well. Find it weird that we only get one breed per game, though - would be a lot more novelty to it if there were multiple cute puppies to see!

Klaptrap - Diddy Kong Pilot

https://youtu.be/5DqQoc3_RMo

Consider the 2003 Diddy Kong Pilot Beta voice clips the entire write-up. To my knowledge, this is the only playable appearance of Klaptrap outside of Donkey Kong 64s Beaver Bother mini-game, and I have had root canals I would rate higher than that mini-game. But damn, theres something mystifying about hearing DK64 Donkey Kong say something close to full sentences, along with whatever demon Dixie Kong is absorbing to have that voice, country Krunch from Diddy Kong Racing, and K. Rool very clearly being a slightly more nasally Wizpig. Klaptrap has the max acceleration lowest speed build, so hes bad, and he has the least fun voice out of Team Krem, but even mediocrity from a game that was completely scrubbed of all DK influence and turned into a Banjo game (except Expresso the Ostrich, who made it in somehow as an obstacle) is better than Beaver Bother, In Smash, Klaptrap says ow when you hit him. I cannot tell you how much that means to me. Absolutely brilliant, instantly puts him in the top half of Assist Trophies.

The Koopalongs - Mario Kart 8

Man, the shine on the Koopalings has fallen off, hasnt it? I remember the mid-2000s days where theyd been away for a few generations, fans clamoring for them back and then they were back and it was quickly realizing nah its ok, like theyre fine but we dont need them THAT often! Insofar as their actual boss appearances go, I think that Color Splash, surprisingly, gets the most out of the Koopalings. Each one has a nice and distinctive personality, along with some actual combat gimmick that requires a modicum of thought before you reach the point of use this specific card or else you physically cant win thanks. I feel like the novelty of having all of them in Mario Kart 8 was really cool, just a neat moment of OH MAN SEVEN NEW CHARACTERS, and you cant really put the toothpaste back in the tube now that youve done it. They had their cool moment in 2014 and now theyre here. Neat.

Quick ranking of all of them:

1. Lemmy (Clearly the best, circus motif, tiny, just a fun lil guy)
2. Morton (When you beat him in Color Splash, he yells MORTON? MORE LIKE LESSTON with his dying breath. Star-making performance dissing yourself to the grave)
3. Ludwig (Obviously at least Top 3 in any list. Has the style, the oh? he gives has more personality than 80% of non-RPG Mario characters)
4. Wendy (Solely for this battle theme, https://youtu.be/-qcYLPKZHjM )
5. Iggy (Actually a pretty neat redesign to differentiate him from Lemmy, the Chain Chomp boss fights he tends to get thrown into are neat)
6. Larry (Nice Jojo reference, loser)
7. Roy (I dont dislike Roy. But he is entirely cool sunglasses to me and getting you the first time with his Mario 3 earthquake hops)

Kamek - Tetris Attack

HOCUS. POCUS. I dont know why I latched onto Kamek when I was, like, 13 as an underrepresented Yoshi/Mario series character who deserved the spotlight, but here we are. Honestly, none of Kameks appearances are really that exemplary when hes playable - hes got the same kinda schtick as Rosalina in Tennis Aces but was DLC so he lacks the impact, for some reason is a money making fiend in Kart Tour, was only playable in Mario Party 9, and wasnt in the baseball games in favor of generic Magikoopas, who are actually pretty awesome in Superstar Baseball to no ones surprise. Being playable in an all-time great like Tetris Attack just shoots you up considerably, I suppose, though TA is my least favorite skin of Panel de Pon. I think that Kamek has great utility as a boss, however - giving him the easy Rita Ripulsa make my monster grow schtick honestly creates a ton of really fun scenarios, as seen through all the various imaginative Yoshis Island bosses. Plus I just like all the little weird things he does through the series, from summoning Bahamut in Mario RPG to playing a worn-down caretaker in both Partners in Time and Origami King to occasionally ruining Sticker Star and Color Splash to be nearly unplayable at times with his appearances. Kamek is a weird wild card of a character, and I think that flexibility is something missing from a majority of Mario enemies, even mainstays like Bowser Jr! Hes not great or anything but man would it have killed them to make him a boss in Ultimate? Just have him grow a bunch of minions from Smash Run to super sizes, and have him end it with Giga Bowser - woulda made that fight a Hell of a lot more interesting.

Paratroopa - Mario Kart: Double Dash!!

Okay, the Koopas in Double Dash? Actually really fun picks for any kart composition. Lightweights are naturally the most valuable partners in DD because they dont restrict you to any specific kart weight class on their own, meaning that youll ideally want to team with a lightweight or draft a lightweight as your first character so youre not locked into something youd regret. The Koopas, though, have an advantage with their special item being part of the common item class, allowing them to access triple shells more easily at higher placements. Of lightweights, this is a trait their specials share only with Diddy Kong and Bowser Jr. And considering the unpredictability of the Bowser Shell and the purely defensive nature of the Giant Banana, this makes Paratroopa the premiere splashable offensive choice, making him an ideal partner for pretty much anyone on the cast outside of Yoshi and Birdo, whose Egg special is also common and purely offensive, thus partnering best with Diddy. Plus Triple Shells are just a fun item, always have been, make you feel ridiculously powerful. In Superstar Baseball, Paratroopa has fallen out of the meta - he used to be an exceptional third baseman with a great line drive and backup pitching potential, but with the rise of Waluigi and Luigi on first, his position is almost always taken by King Boo or Magikoopa. Hes a fine, splashable pick, but hes no longer someone you go out of your way to recruit; somethings likely gone wrong with your team comp or you invested too heavily in Bowser if you draft Paratroopa. In Smash its funny when he comes out of crates in Melee.

Knuckle Joe - Kirby Star Allies

Fighter has always been a fun ability. Rising Break is a satisfying attack slash mobility tool that always feels surprisingly safe until you realize you whiffed the shoryu and get punished immediately, and basing the attacks on the strength of button presses is a great homage to the fighting games that Super Star took inspiration from. But Return To Dreamland added the hadouken into the mix AND gave it the 236 command input for an insta-charge version, that carried over to Star Allies, and sorry Super Star, you aint topping that. Knuckle Joe is similarly fun and flexible, and the Fighter moveset surprisingly doesnt overlap with any Dream Friends, letting him feel original and fun even after all the DLCs rolled out. In Smash I think hes a weird Assist Trophy pull. Like, there are so many fighting game franchises, and even in his debut, he doubled up with Little Mac in providing the same function. Even among Super Star reps, Kracko, Dyna Blade, Computer Virus, TAC - there are a lot of possibilities here that arent entirely defined by being a combo-based fighting game character. Im not upset that Knuckle Joe is here, by any means. Im just a bit confused why he isnt Chun-Li or Magolor.

Shadow the Hedgehog

Lucario

Simon

Krystal

Guile

Zelda

pikachu

Kamekguy posted...

Pac-Man World 2 is actually good

I'm starting to think that you're actually me.

swirIdude posted...

I'm starting to think that you're actually me.

Don't worry, eventually I'll say something that'll definitely make you go "oh, thank god he's not me".

Shadow the Hedgehog - Sonic Adventure 2

Poor Shadow really gets the short end of the stick, huh? Most of the games he appears in, hes absolutely fine, but gets saddled with the most horrendously-controlling vehicles that make performing even the most basic of tasks agonizing. In both Shadow and 06, it is far more fun to figure out how to blow up your vehicle on basic level geometry than it is actually playing the game (which, to be fair, is most of Sonic 06 and how its accidentally a fun game). Sonic Adventure 2 at least gives him four good stages and one of the only challenging bosses in the game. Im not sure if Id call the Biolizard GOOD, but it actually designs around the character, so thats a nice change of pace from most of the bosses! Sky Rail and Final Chase have some growing pains actually learning how their mechanics work, but once you get there, theyre some of the most fun and fulfilling speed stages in the game. Sadly, Shadow does lack the Bounce Bracelet that makes Sonic stupidly fun to just move around with, but well hes got solid stages and the feel of his skating around is nice, and its not like any of his other appearances are exceptionally inspiring. Like, Heroes is okay? I guess? Anyway, Shadows a good Assist Trophy, kind of redundant with Skull Kid, but hes a lot more thematically appropriate with Chaos Control and is less random, thus being more fulfilling to pull out. Still weird he was never an Echo Fighter, thats a concept that was MADE for him and NOTHING was done. And its not like they care about properly repping echo fighters, Dark Samus exists, so Shadow being a non-factor is just weird.

Lucario - Pokken Tournament

Lucarios a weird Pokemon to me. Hes got a great design, a great typing that barely makes sense for that design but sure whatever, a great movepool, and is just kind of boring. He hits things good, he both ungas and bungas, and sometimes he gets outclassed by other mons who are unga bunga specialists instead of Lucarios unga bunga super generalist. I like it when my Pokemon are either flawed but fun or hilariously overpowered, and Lucario doesnt really fall into either of those niches unless he goes Mega, which man, like its a good Mega, but its a big ask to sacrifice a Mega slot that could go to Mewtwo or Kangaskhan or something even more degenerate than Lucario. Pokken, however, gives Lucario some real nice personality in his fighting style. I love the bone rush energy staff, its such a strong unifying design element that brings together a lot of the Pokemons skill and martial abilities in a very distinct way. Theres a weight to Lucarios techniques and just the right amount of force and hitlag on its kicks that sells its impact in a way the RPGs just couldnt, and THATS how you do a lithe fighting type with tremendous power! Its generalist skillset is represented really well here, makes me care for a Pokemon who was very much just there, but nice movie for me before.

Best Smash Appearance: Smash 4 - Aura stacking with Rage really was the best thing that couldve possibly happened for Lucario. I do not mind comeback mechanics on principle - I think that One Winged form and Go!! are great, for instance - but Lucarios entire kit is based off of coming back when the chips are down. And when Lucario is fresh man, Lucario sucks to play as. Im not sure what Im supposed to be feeling when I play Lucario, theyre a really floaty and high-jumping close combat character with weirdly bad air and ground speed. A lot of its moves feel oddly passive, but lack the force of a kind of one-inch punch combatant. I understand the sort of meditative martial artist vibe theyre attempting to give off with Lucario, but he lacks any sort of impact until Force Palm gets juiced by aura, and lacks the personality of honestly, most of the rest of the cast. Im never a huge fan of how the non-Pichu and Incineroar Pokemon express themselves, theyre all pretty standard and stock personalities, but Lucario dips down with Greninja as I mean hes there doing the martial arts/ninja thing I guess? Only instead of doing the speedy ninja moveset well, Lucarios here being a weirdly floaty character who doesnt get to play the game until hes already losing. I just do not like this portrayal of Lucario at all, and think it cooled him pretty substantially considering how white-hot he was at the time of Brawls release. D-

Simon Belmont - Castlevania

Castlevania is one of the NES games that holds up the absolute best. Level design is so perfectly considered for Simons abilities, the number power-ups rewarding you for getting better at a level feels so nice (as you will very likely be replaying these levels again and again), and while youre an insanely stiff character, youre never asked to do anything thats horribly out-of-cycle other than dealing with fleamen, and even those can be baited with very careful movement. Its amazing just how good a game made in 1986 can still be, with absolutely no caveats or needing to point out how good later entries in the series were. Rondo is the only game that I think even comes close to challenging the simple perfection Castlevania achieved; its an hour-long romp through Draculas Castle thats a solid thrill the entire time through with no um the Wily Castle or this level with the wind mechanic in sight. As much as I enjoy seeing other characters of the era evolve, Simon is always one that Ill prefer stick to his original incarnation.

Best Smash Appearance: Ultimate - The Belmonts are weird ducks in Smash Ultimate. They borrow a ton from each other to make one solid, composite character, by which I mean Richter is gutted and nerfed to Hell so that he wont be busted in a Smash game, and Simon benefits from it. I actually think this puts Simon in a MUCH better place than Richter - he really had nowhere to go but up, and damn, THANK you Smash for FINALLY giving Simon a good picture. I dont hate bishe redhead Simon, but the Conan-inspired original is such a breath of fresh air amongst the Castlevania cast that its great to see him properly represented. Simon doesnt entirely play like himself, but I dont think this hurts his design in the same way that it hurts Mega Man - Simon was already reinvented for Super Castlevania IV, and borrowing so much from Richter guaranteed that he wouldnt perfectly emulate his NES counterpart. And for the most part, Simon feels pretty damn good! There is a weight to his attacks that really sells the power of his tools in a way that the games themselves dont. When that axe hits, DAMN does it feel meaty, and the addition of the classic Castlevania sound effects to his whip strikes makes the hitstun from them stand out all the more. Simon does not feel like an homage so much as he feels like a modernization of the classic character, giving him the Pit treatment and giving him some BEEF and gravity to really sell him. I dont think that sort of solid strike philosophy works half as well for Richter, but for Simon? Yeah, I like this version of Simon. A-

Krystal - Dinosaur Planet

That unfinished Dinosaur Planet ROM leaking last year was one of the coolest little discoveries. Seeing Star Fox Adventures fleshed out in a different way was really nice, and most importantly, Krystal doesnt get trapped inside of a Crash Bandicoot collectible for 90% of the game. I really like the classic design of Krystal, teaming with pterodactyl princess, Kite, to solve puzzles and do basic Zelda combat. Shes a cute, fun character that plays just different enough from Saber/Fox in just enough ways to have her own sense of identity, and that is really enough to put it above her ten minutes of Adventures playability and being the worst character in Assault multiplayer. Plus Dinosaur Planet had a bunch of weird time travel stuff in its leaked story pitch, thats wild. I do love the ending of Command where Krystal gets with Panther and renames herself Kursed because she felt so snakebitten by Fox, though; thats some great stuff. Krystal isnt a character Im clamoring for to get a Smash invite, but shes a character who would make sense to be added and would have a fun enough moveset. Her Assist Trophy is fine, kinda forgettable in the grand scheme of things, but Im not disappointed at all to have her around. Shes just there at the moment, and Id hope for more.

Guile - Street Fighter II

Hold down and back. Its so simple, its so universal, its the building block on which fighting game interactions were founded. I know there are more fun versions of Guile out there - Marvel 2 or whichever one gives him the double flash kick is super good, IV 3D gave him sonic boom on a button which made him disgusting, I really like how he looks in SF6 - but theres something that I truly admire about the original design. Its so unabashed in what it wants to accomplish, a 50/50 of reads where you pressure your opponent until theyre so scared of a flash kick that you just walk up, grab, and absolutely destroy them. Guile is infuriating in a special kind of way, one thats more fair than someone like Vega or Dhalsim, but maddening all the same. And it feels good, being a turtle, that everyone HAS to approach and crack their fists on the shell of. It feels good shattering patience. It feels even better shattering the turtles stupid shell. Guile trading all of his utility for being the hold down and back joke is one of the funniest damn things in all of Smash Bros, though. Like, I dont care that hes not a great Assist Trophy. Thats just beautiful execution, 10/10, chefs kiss.

SSBM_Guy posted...

Zelda

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80133166/967400789

Pikachu - Pokemon Yellow

https://youtu.be/_sBDoOwPdsk

Have said my thoughts on Pikachu in the past, but I really love how hes built up in the original games. Pikachu is either a rare encounter that your friends are far less likely to have in the early game, so hes gonna be your special little man, or hes your starter. And he absolutely SUCKS against Brock, the gym leader that youre probably gonna need the most help with. It wouldnt be surprising if a lot of players abandoned Pikachu then and there but especially in Yellow, you cant abandon your starter, can you? Thats the whole reason you picked up the game! So, you stick with him, and Pikachu proves to break the mold of starters everywhere as the game progresses. Usually, your starter is a Pokemon that can very well carry you through the game on its own, something easy to overlevel and throw out against anything to stomp any and all challenges. Pikachu aint built to do that - hes got paper thin defenses, pathetic HP, and really poor type coverage. Instead, Pikachu is loaded with all sorts of support moves - Light Screen, Thunder Wave, Double Team. The best use of your starter is as a support mon to set up your real heavy hitters to take down wounded foes with ease. Pikachu does an amazing job as the poster boy for better team composition in Pokemon, of actually using your party as a cohesive unit to take down any enemy. Its a shame MOST Yellow teams are gonna end up as Pikachu/Primeape or Nidoking/Charizard/Blastoise/Venusaur/Bird due to how the game is structured and, yknow, Ash + Needing Something To Beat Brock With, but Pika more than does his work in this game.

Best Smash Appearance: 64 - Look, I just like Pikachus sound design in 64. The way that the shocks sound are so punchy and painful, and its just funny how damn good his stanky leg nair is. Pikachu might be the most aggressively fine character in the whole Smash series. He does the Pikachu things, he electrocutes you good, he uses his physiology well, its sometimes annoying when he pancakes but is also sort of charming, Thunder is a fun move to spam when youre new to the game. Every base is always checked with Pikachu, every avenue explored of how to use his body in an interesting way for a moveset. He lacks any sort of attitude or uniqueness that hed show in either of his playable forms in Pokken, but if you want to represent Pikachu, the Pokemon Mascot, this is the most by-the-numbers but ultimately fine and fun way of doing so. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Pikachu. Hes cute, hes fun, hes unremarkable. B+

Andross

Woo Simon love and Lucario hate

Also, not to step on your toes, but I'd be interested in providing writeups for a few of the characters you said you don't feel comfortable rating (Shulk, Corrin, and Steve specifically)

I'd be fine with turning this into a Mario Baseball rating topic

R.O.B.

(all-caps)

Zero

Whispy Woods

(He's not a playable character or assist tree but he DOES appear in every Smash game)

KamikazePotato posted...

Also, not to step on your toes, but I'd be interested in providing writeups for a few of the characters you said you don't feel comfortable rating (Shulk, Corrin, and Steve specifically)

Yeah that's no problem! I did already do Steve for the sake of it, but if you'd like, by all means. I just know I'm not an authority to say how well Shulk reps the Monado Arts, and Corrin I am steeped in a large amount of negativity toward Fates that I'd never be able to write something readable.

LeonhartFour posted...

I'd be fine with turning this into a Mario Baseball rating topic

I mean, if you nominate a MSB character, I'll assume you want it. If I've already rated them, just put (MSB) next to their name and I'll go ahead. Note that my experience is mostly only Baseball, though - I don't know the Sluggers meta nearly as well. Mostly because I don't think it's as good.

Andross - Unplayable

To my knowledge, theres not a playable appearance of Andross. Which, I mean, makes sense - hes a giant floating head, youd be kind of limited in what you can do. I think this is a really solid choice for an Assist Trophy, though! Centering around Andross original creepy face appearance both lets him avoid overlap with the hands and gets to rep the big technical innovations Star Fox brought to the forefront. Itd be hard to translate the guy into Smash without having him step all over the territory already occupied by Master Hand, so I actually think this is the best spot for the character! His actual implementation is just fine, but I wouldnt really want more out of him. His best all-time appearance is Star Fox Adventures, though. What an incredibly dumb and forced twist that, while mirroring a character in the original Dinosaur Planet with the false god schtick, ends up as the most hilarious possible consequence of shoving the Star Fox cast in as protagonists. Its the absolute most cornball crap, and its pretty fabulous in retrospect.

R.O.B. - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

ROB is another one of those concept over reference characters that I really love. Hes an incredibly limited design by nature, and feels like a child looked at him and went what could I imagine my cool robot toy doing? So of course he has laser eyes, his little platform is a jet booster, his arms spin around at insane speeds - its looking at a mundane object and getting the absolute most you can out of it. It feels like a moveset an uncreative Youtuber would make looking around, like this is how I would make a moveset for if the N64 Controller was playable in Smash, but it somehow actually made it into the game. And I am really rather fond of it! Smash is great at giving life to characters who otherwise wouldnt have it, and thats incredibly literal in the case of ROB. He does suffer from his Final Smash always having been uncreative and kind of crap - like come on guys you invented a whole story mode for him to give him material to work with and all you have is laser eyes or laser ass? PIRANHA PLANT gets a Subspace reference as his FS and ROB is just here? - but ROB fills a really unique niche among the roster that suits him quite well. And Im shocked that Smash keeps letting him reference Subspace as his defining character trait - no matter what happens, this is the last survivor of a dying race who failed to save his people. Hes got a real cheap down tilt! Neat! Im glad to have him, hes a weird pick with weird design philosophies in both background and implementation that makes him feel unique. I would maybe like to see him with more NES accessories or something, but thats more a nitpick and nostalgia trip from my end than any actual criticism. A-

Best Non-Smash Appearance: Mario Kart DS - Its zany that this even happened. ROB was an absolute non-entity at this time, a toy 20 years out of print that didnt even have a solid connection to the Mario universe, and they just tossed him in as a legacy character. Mario Kart DS isnt my favorite Mario Kart design-wise (though its tracks are almost universally fire, what a great set of 16 new courses outside of the usual generics and, like, Yoshi Falls), but its got a lot of personality and gumption. Like, giving Dry Bones a tiny tank? Hilarious. Giving Donkey Kong a Rambi kart? I wish theyd let him unclench his teeth, but thats awesome. Giving ROB giant unicycle legs? Thats just hilarious and I love it.

Zero - Mega Man X4

Ill note that I have not gone through the Mega Man Zero series, but I doubt they would change my opinion too greatly, because holy crap X4 Zero is one of the best controlling 2D platformer characters out there. Sure, he starts a bit limited, but the instant you get the Kuuenbu? Oh, the entire game becomes a matter of just how much you can destroy it. Zero carves through levels like no ones business, tearing through enemies with an almost effortless appeal. Its a sensation not entirely unlike the Metal Blades, but unlike that weapon, Zero is constantly evolving to be even MORE powerful. His techniques still require a level of execution, there IS a best tool for the job in almost every situation, you CAN still die, that fight against General IS miserable. But every single tool gives you a new way to shred through levels in a beautiful power fantasy. It combines the fundamentals of Mega Man, fighting games, and Strider, loading all of them into a single character who is truly a treat to play as at all times. Plus he teaches you to DP timing good when you fight against Reaper Sigma, thats also a plus. It is honestly a shame that hes not playable in Smash - thank god hes an assist trophy, but man, he and Alucard are just outright incredibly-controlling characters looking in at a game that could dominate if tossed in. I mean, Zero is high tier in every single fighting game hes appeared in, so hed HAVE to be great in Smash, right? They couldnt possibly screw him up!

Whispy Woods - Kirbys Avalanche

I think thats the only game Whispy is playable in to any extent? Im not fact checking, but there ya go. I think I prefer Whispys role in the Kirby series becoming more referential - hes often regulated to a first world mini-boss, or a background element that ends up helping Kirby in some way by beating him up, and I like that look for him. Its not like hes provided an actual threat for years, even in his Parallel and Tropic Woods variants! Still, Id be really sad if I ever had to stop seeing him, hes such a nice calming presence. Actually, bring back more Kirby pinball games, the guy was a great boss in Pinball Land! In Smash, I like Whispy fine - he does the blowy tree thing and its a fairly unobtrusive obstacle. Plus the wind is the most fickle natural element in real life, it being against you is just par for the course. I think I prefer his Green Greens appearance over his Dream Land 64 appearance, the apples are actually really fun projectiles. I do wish he made the sound that he makes when he shakes out apples in Kirby 64, though. Its a really satisfying BRWWWAAAHHHH like low, resonant percussion that would tell when the apples are coming more satisfyingly. And also I wish there was a way to make him cry. I want to bully the tree more, its his lifes purpose.

Alph

Wario

Dixie Kong

Dillon

Kamekguy posted...

Yeah that's no problem! I did already do Steve for the sake of it, but if you'd like, by all means. I just know I'm not an authority to say how well Shulk reps the Monado Arts, and Corrin I am steeped in a large amount of negativity toward Fates that I'd never be able to write something readable.

Oh yeah, you did do Steve already, and it was basically the writeup I would have done but better (and with a slightly higher grade).

As far as Corrin goes, I have no problems with airing my negativity proud and free!

Corrin - Nothing
Because he has no good appearances in any game.

While Smash Bros roster speculation can be fun, I tend to get really annoyed by Smash Bros pre-release discourse. The discussions about which characters people want to join the cast can turn toxic real fast. I've seen the term 'undeserving' thrown around more times than I can count, and almost always by people who misuse it.

With that said, Corrin is the most undeserving character in the entire roster, bar none. Imagine a character announced before their game came out (before they even had an English name), when their home series already got a full new character in Smash 4, and for their character to be widely maligned once the game actually releases. That's Corrin. Roy kinda did the same thing, but Fire Emblem was new at the time for US audiences, and he was a package deal with Marth that didn't cost an extra $5.99 to play. It's totally fine for Smash to be used as a vehicle for game advertising, but this was just *so* blatant that it rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

This would have ended up fine if Corrin was cool, but sadly, Corrin is not. In Fates, they're strong, but who cares? Tons of units in Fates are strong. Modern Fire Emblem is easy enough that you can use anyone. The only reasons to use units are because you're forced to, or because you like the character, and Corrin's characterization is dog water. They're annoyingly naive, dumb, and inconsistent, yet the plot puts them on a pedestal for no reason.

Their implementation in Smash Bros is 'interesting' because they have all the elements of a fun character without actually being one. Unique specials, stylish animations, they sometimes transform into a dragon...it should be cool. But it just isn't. Corrin's sound effects lack any sort of punch, and their moves have this inherent aura of boring to them. Back air and forward smash are kinda fun to hit, but that's about it. Compare them to any other A-button spamming swordy and they look less entertaining, even Lucina a.k.a. Stale Bread Marth. Their implementation isn't even that accurate, as Corrin's dragon transformation mechanic in Fates is reduced to random animation fodder in Smash.

tl;dr - Corrin is a character that shouldn't have been in the game, and isn't particularly fun or interesting. It's hard to get much worse than that. D-

Best Smash Appearance: Ultimate
By default. Smash 4 Corrin, like most DLC, was super overtuned upon release. They nerfed him into oblivion during the transition to Smash Ultimate, then buffed him up to a reasonable state. At the moment, Corrin is in a good spot, not amazing but not weak either. Strong normals, unique tricks, mediocre combo game, mediocre mobility. Honestly one of the most balanced characters in the game.

I'm sure Corrin mains from Smash 4 will disagree, but his options in that game were far more degenerate and not really indicative of good game design. Lots of over-reliance on the pin, and the less said about his Smash 4 counter, the better. Corrin in Ultimate has some special sauce to them, but they also feel like they actually have to play the game. There's some bias in my decision as I think Ultimate's engine makes basically every character more fun, but hey.

Was Byleth before three houses release too?

3H release date - July 26, 2019
Byleth in Smash - January 28, 2020

Byleth got an unfortunately bad rap due to circumstances outside of their control. Three Houses was so successful that it definitely deserved representation, but Corrin + clone roster padding meant that FE fatigue was at an all-time high. It doesn't help that they came at the end of the end of Fighter's Pass 1, which contained four amazing 3rd-Party characters.

Also that trailer was hot garbage. A good trailer can make people hyped for any character, no matter how obscure. Byleth's trailer did the opposite.

Byleth is fun in Smash

Super valuable in some of the harder fights in the story mode

I agree with Kamek that Byleth's design feels insecure, he was totally designed the way he is due to swordsman complaints, but he is way more fun to play than Corrin and has carved out his own fanbase niche.

Hammer Bro

Dr. Wily