Current Events > California mask mandate returns starting tomorrow...

(+) Yeah! (+)

I saw it on the Spanish news just now, but I when I searched on Google I found nothing of this. Maybe I heard wrong or they were mis informed. L.A. County has cases dropping and won't be enforcing mask mandate. So now I'm confused.

I really hope it's not happening because it's getting hotter and wearing that all day indoor at work with no air condition is going to kill me.

Yup, and lots of cities refusing to enforce it who need to have their leadership gutted(figuratively).

just LA county.

and a lot of cities in the county have said they will not be enforcing it.

I saw that here in San Diego the schools were going to bring it back but not the county at large.

LA county has always been a lot more tight with the restrictions than the rest of the state.

I haven't heard anything about it. I know a few weeks ago they were saying that if cases continued to rise, LA County could see mask mandates return in August.

I never stopped masking up, so my day to day would be unaffected either way lol.

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And unfortunately, you wearing a mask does next to nothing to protect you. It's almost entirely for others, so if others don't do it you're fucked :/

StatisticHorror posted...

And unfortunately, you wearing a mask does next to nothing to protect you. It's almost entirely for others, so if others don't do it you're fucked :/

Masks absolutely do protect you. From day 0 to now I've seen hundreds of contagious covid patients, them not wearing a mask, coughing in my face, wearing certain oxygen masks that actually spread the virus even more in the air, and simply wearing a mask and frequently washing my hands allowed me to not catch covid this whole time. I happened to catch it at a family wedding where no one was wearing masks.

I googled and keep seeing "decision expected" today on whether to bring it back starting tomorrow. Can't seem to see anything that says they've decided to keep it. That might be what you saw on the news.

Dan_Haren- posted...

Masks absolutely do protect you. From day 0 to now I've seen hundreds of contagious covid patients, them not wearing a mask, coughing in my face, wearing certain oxygen masks that actually spread the virus even more in the air, and simply wearing a mask and frequently washing my hands allowed me to not catch covid this whole time. I happened to catch it at a family wedding where no one was wearing masks.

They don't, at least not significantly, IIRC it's less than a 20% change. Because Covid typically isn't spread solely through breathing it in. Sanitizing everything before you touch is much better though, which could very well be why.

Not trying to knock masks or convince anyone to stop though! I've still yet to get it somehow, despite my wife and roommate having it.

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No it isn't

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2022-07-28/why-some-health-experts-see-less-value-in-a-new-l-a-mask-mandate-at-this-stage-of-the-pandemic

Thanks to a combination of widespread immunity, effective COVID-19 treatments and a more benign virus, theres less reason to suppress viral spread by any means necessary, said Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious disease doctor who conducts public health research at UC San Francisco.

Were in a very different place in the pandemic, Gandhi said. At this point, I do not think that widespread masking is necessary.

Hospitalized patients with coronavirus infections are less of a burden in the BA.5 era, even if their numbers remain high. At Los Angeles County-USC Medical Center, the largest of four county-run public hospitals, around 90% of infected patients were admitted for something other than COVID-19 and virtually none of them to go the ICU, according to Dr. Brad Spellberg, the hospitals chief medical officer.

It is just not the same pandemic as it was, Spellberg said this month at a virtual town hall for hospital staffers. A lot of people have bad colds, is what were seeing.

Gandhi said that even steep increases in new infections have ceased to be a reliable predictor of hospital admissions for severe cases of COVID-19.

Weve started seeing a decoupling of cases and hospitalizations, she said.

On top of that, the use of the antiviral Paxlovid in the first five days following a positive test can reduce the chance of hospitalization or death by as much as 88%. For people with weakened immune systems an estimated 3% of Americans prophylactic use of a monoclonal antibody called Evusheld reduced the risk of COVID-19 by 83% over six months; when taken after the onset of an infection, it drove down the risk of severe disease by 88%.

Plus, the Omicron variant now dominating the U.S. is less dangerous than the coronavirus strains that preceded it. The CDC has observed that the Omicron variant generally causes less severe disease than infection with prior variants. A recent study in the medical journal Lancet even suggests that the risk of developing long COVID after an infection with Omicron is less than half what it was with Delta.

The threat has decreased, said Dr. Jeffrey Duchin, chief health officer of Seattle and King County. And for that reason, taking steps that are seen as inconvenient or costly or philosophically objectionable is less palatable and less desirable.

In some cases, health officials still turning to mask mandates out of instinct, Gandhi said.

When new infections rise, that feels scary to a public health officer, and it feels like something they can do, she said.

But if mask mandates no longer hold the promise of driving down hospitalizations and reducing deaths, they will be hard to defend especially to an increasingly restive public.

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Thanks to a combination of widespread immunity, effective COVID-19 treatments and a more benign virus, theres less reason to suppress viral spread by any means necessary, said Dr. Monica Gandhi, an infectious disease doctor who conducts public health research at UC San Francisco.

Masking indoors is the bare minimum not 'any means necessary'. And 'widespread immunity' is BS since people are getting reinfected weeks after getting the last one. New variants are increasing reinfections. The vaccines and such still help lower the risk of severe outcomes but the risks are still there.

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Were in a very different place in the pandemic, Gandhi said. At this point, I do not think that widespread masking is necessary.

Hospitalized patients with coronavirus infections are less of a burden in the BA.5 era, even if their numbers remain high. At Los Angeles County-USC Medical Center, the largest of four county-run public hospitals, around 90% of infected patients were admitted for something other than COVID-19 and virtually none of them to go the ICU, according to Dr. Brad Spellberg, the hospitals chief medical officer.

I do wonder how some doctors can be so completely opposite each other for the same illness.

These two are saying they don't feel masks are necessary at this stage.

But I'm curious to ask two other doctors, @darkroast and @Dan_Haren- , their thoughts on other doctors saying things like this.

TaylorHeinicke posted...

I do wonder how some doctors can be so completely opposite each other for the same illness.

These two are saying they don't feel masks are necessary at this stage.

But I'm curious to ask two other doctors, @darkroast and @Dan_Haren- , their thoughts on other doctors saying things like this.

Neither of those are doctors with any relevance to this discussion

StatisticHorror posted...

I've still yet to get it somehow

hopefully you can continue to dodge it until the pandemic ends. covid is bad news.

Whats the justification for masks these days? The way the new variants spread so easily suggests masks are pointless and wed be better off enforcing distancing rules or keeping vulnerable people at home.

Cases are up but I didnt think hospitalisations were. If the hospitals are getting full then I completely get it.

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Early days in the pandemic I would 100% agree. But with the new variant spreading so easily there are probably better ways to keep people safe like enforcing distancing rules or keeping vulnerable people at home.

kingdrake2 posted...

hopefully you can continue to dodge it until the pandemic ends. covid is bad news.

Yeah, my wife has it now. She's super depressed because she basically can't leave home for any significant activities and lost her job due to long covid :/

SHRlKE posted...

Early days in the pandemic I would 100% agree. But with the new variant spreading so easily there are probably better ways to keep people safe like enforcing distancing rules or keeping vulnerable people at home.

Masks still help and vulnerable people can't just stay home all the time.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fjUGC8g4GOE

Fuck it, mask off

Pretty much typical protocol since before covid: doctors would only wear these masks when entering a room with a sick patient with a respiratory virus, never break the seal, and only remove it once out of the room. It only protects the wearer as the patient never wore one.

Seems like as time goes on, research is pointing this to be true for covid as well.

I haven't actually worked significant hours since May. I ended my fellowship and took 2 months off just to spend time with family. I'll be back at work at the end of August so I'll have first hand experience at that time regarding how our ICU numbers are looking. Right now I don't have any first hand experience with the new wave other than getting covid myself lol.

Also I can tell you 2 names to not listen to are Monica Gandhi and Vinay Prasad. Both have shown themselves to be quacks over the last 2 years. Both have had opinions that are opposite of that of the majority of the medical community, including the NIH, infectious disease societies, etc and in my opinion the 2 best sources of covid information are NIH and IDSA.

Lol covid

Still believe in Santa too?

jk but I can see people saying this

M_Live posted...

I cannot wrap my head around why people are so vehemently opposed to wearing a mask

infringes on personal freedom. no responsibility if they infect someone immune compromised. it's own fault for going out they think.

And I can tell you that anything covid related, I agree 100% with anything DarkRoast says.

Dan_Haren- posted...

Also I can tell you 2 names to not listen to are Monica Gandhi

So then I'll flip it back to:

StatisticHorror posted...

Neither of those are doctors with any relevance to this discussion

@StatisticHorror How do you respond to Dan's post above?

I just don't understand how it's possible to be so drastically different. I just want to know how these differences are possible for the same disease. StatisticHorror claims Dan's take is irrelevant. Dan claims Gandhi, the doctor featured in the story are irrelevant. Who's right?

I know some county's in the bay have reinforced their mask mandate. I've always kept my mask on tho. I don't trust y'all.

Good.

TaylorHeinicke posted...

So then I'll flip it back to:

@StatisticHorror How do you respond to Dan's post above?

I just don't understand how it's possible to be so drastically different. I just want to know how these differences are possible for the same disease. StatisticHorror claims Dan's take is irrelevant. Dan claims Gandhi, the doctor featured in the story are irrelevant. Who's right?

I don't have time to get into the nitty gritty right now. So I'm gonna take myself out of the conversation. I'll have to sit down on my laptop and pull up the articles and stuff. I'm just on my phone.

Dan_Haren- posted...

I don't have time to get into the nitty gritty right now. So I'm gonna take myself out of the conversation. I'll have to sit down on my laptop and pull up the articles and stuff. I'm just on my phone.

That's fine. But here's what I don't get. I can only assume Monica Gandhi, a masters and medical professor and associate division chief of infectious diseases at a prestigious (i assume) California university has access to the same articles and stuff that you have.

How is it possible that the two of you can come to such drastically different opinions to the point that you say never to listen to this person who is holding a moderately prominent position at a prestigious university? In today's climate, especially in California, why hasn't she been fired/cancelled/etc. for treating covid/masks so casually?

Here's a good Twitter thread about Gandhi:
https://mobile.twitter.com/LongDesertTrain/status/1477728274402922503

Dan_Haren- posted...

Here's a good Twitter thread about Gandhi:
https://mobile.twitter.com/LongDesertTrain/status/1477728274402922503

Fair enough. But what I don't understand is, why does she still have the platform? If I'm not mistaken, California is extremely pro-mask / pro-mandate / etc. So how is she able to hold this platform, effectively an island in her sea of pro-mask / pro-mandate peers? Why are all these people giving her so much voice when they disagree with her? I won't pretend to know the agenda of the LA Times, but I have to assume they'd share similar takes as the rest of California on covid, no?

TaylorHeinicke posted...

Fair enough. But what I don't understand is, why does she still have the platform? If I'm not mistaken, California is extremely pro-mask / pro-mandate / etc. So how is she able to hold this platform, effectively an island in her sea of pro-mask / pro-mandate peers? Why are all these people giving her so much voice when they disagree with her? I won't pretend to know the agenda of the LA Times, but I have to assume they'd share similar takes as the rest of California on covid, no?

That thread touches on it:
if you tell people what they want to hear, you will never lack for an audience, nor will you ever run out of major media outlets eager to disseminate your tripe
...
Any message congenial to the wealthy (AKA "the Economy"), no matter how asinine, is welcomed by major media outlets.

To answer your previous questions, no research study is flawless. Some are better than others. People can take any paper and blow up or minimize it's flaws how they see fit. People can take shit quality evidence and try to spin it to minimize it's flaws aland vice versa. It's why there's no single doctor or person who determines guidelines for major medical societies....it's always a panel of the most expert opinions...who have done the most work in the field. It's why you should listen to the majority of doctors and not the small minority who play into conspiracy theories...mostly for their own popularity. They are essentially cherry picking evidence. And keep in mind....some of the main papers antivax/mask people get behind have been redacted due to falsifying data (one ofyl the biggest ivermectin papers) or just being shit articles in general (the initial hydroxychloroquine paper)

TaylorHeinicke posted...

So then I'll flip it back to:

@StatisticHorror How do you respond to Dan's post above?

I just don't understand how it's possible to be so drastically different. I just want to know how these differences are possible for the same disease. StatisticHorror claims Dan's take is irrelevant. Dan claims Gandhi, the doctor featured in the story are irrelevant. Who's right?

Why would a doctor post on Gamefaqs out of ANY website out there?

I never stopped wearing mine.

Never wore one, never will. Haven't had covid. No vax.

MasterVading posted...

Never wore one, never will. Haven't had covid. No vax.

Yeah but does it matter if you never leave mom's basement?

Looks like it won't happen in LA County:

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/coronavirus/southern-california-coronavirus/los-angeles-la-county-mask-mandate-coronavirus-covid-19/2951363/

StatisticHorror posted...

Masks still help and vulnerable people can't just stay home all the time.

Its about risk management. Do they help enough to make it worth it these days?

As said previously I absolutely agree during early pandemic it was a must along with distancing guidelines but now with the majority of people vaccinated and from what I can tell hospital cases not rising significantly (I did ask this previously in this very topic and no one co trafficked me yet) whats the rationale for it now?

Also in terms of the vulnerable people. I imagine they are also vulnerable to many many other transmissible illnesses that we dont have mask mandates for. They coped before covid and I imagine are now all triple jabbed.

Will_Vill posted...

Yeah but does it matter if you never leave mom's basement?

Projecting. Stay mad.

SHRlKE posted...

now with the majority of people vaccinated and from what I can tell hospital cases not rising significantly (I did ask this previously in this very topic and no one co trafficked me yet)

Cases rose, but without the significant spiking you saw in the Covid pandemic phase. You also don't see the fatalities this time around. There is certainly an effect of having vaccines available and of new variants being less fatal.

It's also a bit of a known secret that even at the peak fatalities were less than 1% and mostly consisted of older people with co-morbidities. Outside of transit and hospital settings wearing a mask these days is partly political, or even mostly political. All that being said, I wouldn't be surprised if California tried to reinstate mask mandates in fall, citing people going indoors as a risk factor for spreading Covid.

Mizznox posted...

That thread touches on it:
if you tell people what they want to hear, you will never lack for an audience, nor will you ever run out of major media outlets eager to disseminate your tripe
...
Any message congenial to the wealthy (AKA "the Economy"), no matter how asinine, is welcomed by major media outlets.

But who in California/LA/San Francisco wants to hear that we don't need masks? It all comes back to how areas like this (California/San Francisco/LA/etc) would absolutely want to hear that we NEED masks, yes?

I just don't understand the geography and how she has this audience of people who allegedly want to hear that we don't need masks, without acknowledging the fact that LA/California have/had some of the strongest lockdowns/mandates in the country.

It's possible my word vomit doesn't make sense but hopefully you can see where I'm getting hung up; a woman with a strong voice holding a prominent position in California at a university ISN'T getting roasted by her base for saying we don't need masks, when one would think people in that base WOULD be roasting her because that's not what they want to hear.

TaylorHeinicke posted...

But who in California/LA/San Francisco wants to hear that we don't need masks? It all comes back to how areas like this (California/San Francisco/LA/etc) would absolutely want to hear that we NEED masks, yes?

I just don't understand the geography and how she has this audience of people who allegedly want to hear that we don't need masks, without acknowledging the fact that LA/California have/had some of the strongest lockdowns/mandates in the country.

It's possible my word vomit doesn't make sense but hopefully you can see where I'm getting hung up; a woman with a strong voice holding a prominent position in California at a university ISN'T getting roasted by her base for saying we don't need masks, when one would think people in that base WOULD be roasting her because that's not what they want to hear.

Anti-mask attitudes are far from limited to stereotypical red states. Plenty of apolitical or even left-leaning people vocally despise / flout Covid restrictions; these are the types who were eager to follow the rules at first, but gleefully declared 'mission accomplished' in the early-2021 dip between the first wave and Delta, and will continue to do so like clockwork with every dip into the foreseeable future. I tend to call these sorts 'Covid-casuals' (because 'covidiot' in this case is not only borderline-TOS breaking if it happens to be directed at a fellow CEman, it's also a little unfair).

DuneMan posted...

Cases rose, but without the significant spiking you saw in the Covid pandemic phase. You also don't see the fatalities this time around. There is certainly an effect of having vaccines available and of new variants being less fatal.

It's also a bit of a known secret that even at the peak fatalities were less than 1% and mostly consisted of older people with co-morbidities. Outside of transit and hospital settings wearing a mask these days is partly political, or even mostly political. All that being said, I wouldn't be surprised if California tried to reinstate mask mandates in fall, citing people going indoors as a risk factor for spreading Covid.

its crazy to think youd have probably been suspended for a post like this six months ago.

A lot of places still half -assed require masks here. And I was finally hoping to ditch the damn thing.

TaylorHeinicke posted...

But who in California/LA/San Francisco wants to hear that we don't need masks? It all comes back to how areas like this (California/San Francisco/LA/etc) would absolutely want to hear that we NEED masks, yes?

I just don't understand the geography and how she has this audience of people who allegedly want to hear that we don't need masks, without acknowledging the fact that LA/California have/had some of the strongest lockdowns/mandates in the country.

It's possible my word vomit doesn't make sense but hopefully you can see where I'm getting hung up; a woman with a strong voice holding a prominent position in California at a university ISN'T getting roasted by her base for saying we don't need masks, when one would think people in that base WOULD be roasting her because that's not what they want to hear.

Simple, there's selfish idiots everywhere in the world.

Imagine thinking mask mandates would come back before the midterms.