Current Events > Yoda and Mace Windu: were they regarded as equals?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Thoughts?

idk, mace went down pretty easy it seemed like. Made him seem a lot weaker than Yoda

Yoda always seemed like the top jedi. Mace Windu was probably number two. I agree that Yoda seems more in tune with the force, while Windu was better at physical combat.

solosnake posted...

idk, mace went down pretty easy it seemed like. Made him seem a lot weaker than Yoda

He was winning against Palpatine until Anakin interfered.

Are you really better at physical combat when the other guy can no effort pick you up and throw you off a skyscraper though?

More skilled in the art of swinging a lightsaber around sure but does that canonically do anything to help you if the other guy's like Snoke just physguning you around?
Like if Palpatine picked any move besides the lightning would that have been it then and there?

Definitely not. Yoda would have like 800 years of experience over Mace

ViewtifulJoe posted...

Are you really better at physical combat when the other guy can no effort pick you up and throw you off a skyscraper though?

Can he do it without effort to another jedi/sith though?

PMarth2002 posted...

Can he do it without effort to another jedi/sith though?

Probably. If you're Yoda and you're obscenely overpowered with the force, then even if you can't just levitate Mace Windu and dumpster him, you must at least be able to totally stalemate his swordfighting prowess.

There's a bit in a fight between Sidious, Maul and Maul's brother where Sidious puts his lightsaber away and starts throwing people around. It's a little into the fight though so it's not like he's trying it on a fresh opponent.

Yoda was a Grandmaster.

Doesn't matter I actually believe Obi Wan is stronger than both lol

Yoda really sucks if you think about it. He has the power to change the backwards beliefs of the Jedi and doesn't. He doesn't acknowledge that these beliefs are backwards until after he is dead. He fails at defeating Palpatine despite being significantly older and teaching everyone that the light side is better. Then he fucks off to a swamp while the other survivors bust their assess of surviving and rescuing others. During this entire time he obfuscates his speech to make him sound more wise than he actually is.

Maybe someone else should have been the boss.

On top of this Grogu shows that Yoda isn't strong with the Force because of anything different he did. He was just born to be. So he was granted this gift and he still sucks.

Letsago posted...

Yoda was a Grandmaster.

Ranks really don't matter

Yoda was hundreds of years old. Mace was a regular aged dude. Even if Mace was hella strong, Yoda had a ton more prestige around him.

Yoda was pretty clearly the guy they looked to as the head of the council. De facto leader if not straight up in charge.

Yoda outclassed Mace but imagine if Mace had 700 extra years.

I always kind of thought of it like, Mace was the head of the Jedi council and would take the lead on most things but Yodas opinion was given a lot of respect based on being...Yoda. But unless Yoda had a vastly different opinion to Mace he'd prefer to take a back seat.

Both leaders.

Mace was the fighter, while Yoda was the spiritual guru and possible father of Grogu.

ArchNemo posted...

I always kind of thought of it like, Mace was the head of the Jedi council and would take the lead on most things but Yodas opinion was given a lot of respect based on being...Yoda. But unless Yoda had a vastly different opinion to Mace he'd prefer to take a back seat.

Mace wasn't the head of the Jedi council

Kalk posted...

and possible father of Grogu.

LMAO no. what the hell

MarcoRubio posted...

Mace wasn't the head of the Jedi council

Not officially, but he speaks for the council in nearly every instance.

Edit: also, apparently he was the head of the a Jedi council, but not the leader of the Order which was Yoda as grandmaster. But Grandmaster is more of a ceremonial title.

Yoda is the better force user. Mace Windu is the better Lightsaber duelist

Nerevar791 posted...

LMAO no. what the hell

lol joking

Y'all I truly do not mean to stir the pot but where do Rey and Kylo come into all this, power level wise? This can be a civil discussion all love no hate

I only ask because I never see them included in these discussions. My initial thought is they're both pretty trash? Obvi compared to Yoda/Palpatine/Anakin etc.

Something I did like about the sequels was Rey's force heal power and the dyad connection between she and Kylo, linking them across great distances.

Bad writing did both of them dirty.

Other: Mace was great, but no Jedi was the equal of Yoda.

MorbidFaithless posted...

Y'all I truly do not mean to stir the pot but where do Rey and Kylo come into all this, power level wise? This can be a civil discussion all love no hate

I only ask because I never see them included in these discussions. My initial thought is they're both pretty trash? Obvi compared to Yoda/Palpatine/Anakin etc.

Something I did like about the sequels was Rey's force heal power and the dyad connection between she and Kylo, linking them across great distances.

Err...I think they're both considered extremely powerful but because they have had less extended content written about them and were never showed at their full potential they seem lesser and you're mostly just told how powerful they are. Plus people don't like them.

But, if you look solely at Luke at the end of ROTJ he's not particularly powerful either. Which is basically the point Rey and Kylo are at.

MorbidFaithless posted...

Y'all I truly do not mean to stir the pot but where do Rey and Kylo come into all this, power level wise? This can be a civil discussion all love no hate

I only ask because I never see them included in these discussions. My initial thought is they're both pretty trash? Obvi compared to Yoda/Palpatine/Anakin etc.

Something I did like about the sequels was Rey's force heal power and the dyad connection between she and Kylo, linking them across great distances.

I'd say they're both similar to Luke in the OT.

Potentially they're still better than most PT era Jedi but not comparable to the Masters and Knights due to less training and experience.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I don't necessarily disagree and said in my original post that Yoda would effectively have final say out of respect for his expeeirnce and knowledge. But, I think for day to day matters Mace was effectively the head of the council.

Mace was strong in the force, and specialized in Lightsaber combat. He was the only one to master Vapaad.

Yoda was Stronger in the force, but (probably due to old age) wasnt as good with a Saber as Mace.

Yoda had the years and title, Mace had the rest.

ArchNemo posted...

I don't necessarily disagree and said in my original post that Yoda would effectively have final say out of respect for his expeeirnce and knowledge. But, I think for day to day matters Mace was effectively the head of the council.

Not really, no. He just had the big actor behind him versus a puppet. While no longer canon the EU painted a very different picture overall and while Mace had a lot of sway Yoda definitely jumped up a ton in relevance.

ArchNemo posted...

But, if you look solely at Luke at the end of ROTJ he's not particularly powerful either. Which is basically the point Rey and Kylo are at.

Punished_Blinx posted...

I'd say they're both similar to Luke in the OT.

Potentially they're still better than most PT era Jedi but not comparable to the Masters and Knights due to less training and experience

Yeah I definitely agree. Although looking back OT Luke looks extremely weak compared to Rey and Kylo, but that's really just budget, probably.

ellis123 posted...

Not really, no. He just had the big actor behind him versus a puppet. While no longer canon the EU painted a very different picture overall and while Mace had a lot of sway Yoda definitely jumped up a ton in relevance.

I mean, you said it yourself, EU isn't canon.

MorbidFaithless posted...

Yeah I definitely agree. Although looking back OT Luke looks extremely weak compared to Rey and Kylo, but that's really just budget, probably.

ROTJ Luke is probably more accurate. Maybe even a tiny notch above that yeah.

ArchNemo posted...

I mean, you said it yourself, EU isn't canon.

Yeah, but if we're just going by canon then Yoda flips around Windu with ease and is clearly the better lightsaber duelist while at the same time we have no reason to believe that Yoda is better with the force from the movies.

MorbidFaithless posted...

Yeah I definitely agree. Although looking back OT Luke looks extremely weak compared to Rey and Kylo, but that's really just budget, probably.

Luke was really weak, but the OT was a different beast. But really, had Vader not been toying with Luke for the majority of the fight and other than Luke briefly giving into the Dark Side and attacking Vader out of anger (Which is what Palpatine wanted) Luke was never in a position to actually win. Had his gamble of believing Anakin still existed in Vader not paid off, he would have been killed.

He was never on the level of either of the Sith, but that wasn't the story being told.

ellis123 posted...

Yeah, but if we're just going by canon then Yoda flips around Windu with ease and is clearly the better lightsaber duelist while at the same time we have no reason to believe that Yoda is better with the force from the movies.

No because new canon extended works still paint Mace as a better duelist.

However, I'm only arguing whether they're equals in regards to their position within the Jedi council. I 100% believe Yoda is more powerful.

ArchNemo posted...

No because new canon extended works still paint Mace as a better duelist.

However, I'm only arguing whether they're equals in regards to their position within the Jedi council. I 100% believe Yoda is more powerful.

Man, I always forget that they are still even doing that. ~.~

ViewtifulJoe posted...

Are you really better at physical combat when the other guy can no effort pick you up and throw you off a skyscraper though?

More skilled in the art of swinging a lightsaber around sure but does that canonically do anything to help you if the other guy's like Snoke just physguning you around?
Like if Palpatine picked any move besides the lightning would that have been it then and there?

Mace came in with like 5 dudes and was winning when it was one Vs one.

if theres one thing I wanted from Disney Plus its a young Mace series.