Poll of the Day > lmao, Lauren bobert used to be an "escort" and has had two abortions

(+) Yeah! (+)

Adam_Savage posted...

literally no one is reading your essays

Clearly some people are, because they're quoting things from them.

Adam_Savage posted...

y'all waste a ton of effort because you're mad your opinion isn't worth more than a womans on a matter about something only women can do

I think you're vastly underestimating my typing speed if you think my posts take "a ton of effort".

But here, if your attention span is short, I'll break this into point form:
-Not all women can have abortions, but you still think those that can't should have a greater say, which makes you a liar and a hypocrite
-At no point have I argued that my opinion on abortion should be given any more importance than a layperson
-Credibility, of which professional qualifications, experience, and expertise all play a role, is far more important than identity politics.

Or, to make it really short: You're wrong.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Right? Idk how else to make it clear I'm not in step with their line of thinking and I don't need to be lol

Far-Queue posted...

See, we shouldn't approach *everything* with common sense or logical consistency.

I think this might be the dumbest thing said in this topic, great work

Far-Queue posted...

It's great to be an ally and throw your support behind those who are experiencing injustice, but that doesn't mean that your opinion on issues which directly affect certain marginalized groups should be treated as equal to those affected.

No one is suggesting it should.

No one is saying men categorically should have equal or greater input than women on this subject. Yes, women who will actually be affected by these laws have a greater stake in it than men do. Yes, that should be considered when weighing contradictory or opposing viewpoints. No one still in this discussion disputes this.

The only thing that has been said is that some specific men should also not categorically have lesser input into this discussion than women. Not *all* men; not even *most* men; just some.

There are men whose expertise means they have extremely important input into this discussion, whether that's researchers who have studied this issue extensively or doctors who can speak firsthand to the horrors of having to treat a woman who suffered a botched back-alley abortion (and if that woman died from it, she obviously can't speak for herself). Those people have opinions and statements that need to be given careful consideration, opinions that no layperson - male or female - can speak to. And, yes, their view should be given outsize importance - they are the experts and having experts weigh in on a matter like this is critical to good policy.

To be abundantly clear, since certain individuals with low attention spans still seem to be missing this, I AM NOT SAYING I AM ONE OF THOSE MEN. I am very much not. I do not pretend to have any experience or credentials that would lend my opinion any notable weight in this category.

To categorically say that not a single man anywhere in the world has important input to give on this topic and that the greatest, most experienced, most educated amongst them is still less important than a woman with no expertise or experience or, in some cases, even ability to have an abortion is arrogant and asinine.

lol, some snowflake didn't like my acronym for the GoP.
If I linked like 20+ examples proving the "P" was valid, would it undo my moderation? Because it really wouldn't be hard to find...
Oh well.

darkknight109 posted...

To categorically say that not a single man anywhere in the world has important input to give on this topic and that the greatest, most experienced, most educated amongst them is still less important than a woman with no expertise or experience or, in some cases, even ability to have an abortion is arrogant and asinine.

It's sexist. It's misandrist. I said this like 300+ posts ago. Just stop wasting your time trying to convince these people, they literally stake all of their viewpoints on blaming men for shit. Just destroy their claims and move on.
I already disproved Jen blaming the end of Roe v. Wade on men in post 96, and all she could retort is "I'm not reading your posts".

streamofthesky posted...

Just stop wasting your time trying to convince these people

I'm not under any illusions any of them will change their minds. Most don't in situations like this.

Perhaps I will change some small facet of how they think about the issue. Perhaps not.

But I still think this is a worthwhile exercise, if only for people who might be reading this and who are unconvinced one way or another. Those are minds that can actually be changed.

darkknight109 posted...

But I still think this is a worthwhile exercise, if only for people who might be reading this and who are unconvinced one way or another. Those are minds that can actually be changed.

Yeah, that's why I post to counter their bull shit, so whatever other people see the topic see that. Still not worth all the typing and effort you're making just to try and virtue signal, "I AM NOT SAYING I AM ONE OF THOSE MEN" (direct quote) to them. They don't fucking care. Stop worrying about seeking their approval. They literally hate you.

Jen0125 posted...

That's not what this is about lol. I don't respect pro life anyone. Validity isn't about respect.

That's the whole crux of the LGBTQ+ argument.

ok well a woman with a pro-life perspective that she'll attempt to force on other women isn't valid, cheers.

Jen0125 posted...

My opinion that your opinion is less valid has no practical implications lmao. I'm not here saying we need to restrict men's voting rights or disallow them to speak. I'm saying your self important opinion doesn't matter as much as someone who is personally affected by the issue.

You're upset about my opinion when my opinion carries no desire for restrictions. I want you to shut the fuck up about abortion but you don't have to. It's just what I want. There's nothing practically to be done about it. Unless you want to be nice and shut the fuck up. Which you obviously don't because you need everyone to know your opinions on women's issues are "just as valid" as people they actually affect. Which they aren't. But you refuse to admit it lol. So here we are.

men with women in their lives that have been affected by abortion laws probably aren't going to shut up lol

ReturnOfFa posted...

ok well a woman with a pro-life perspective that she'll attempt to force on other women isn't valid, cheers.

That's, like, ur opinion, man

Adam_Savage posted...

literally no one is reading your essays

y'all waste a ton of effort because you're mad your opinion isn't worth more than a womans on a matter about something only women can do

I know you're talking to Mr. Essay, but I'd say his opinion corresponds with that of most women I know, so I'm not really sure what the big deal is if he wants to dunk on pro-life women who fuck over other women.

Jen0125 posted...

That's, like, ur opinion, man

It's grounded in whether or not my mother would have died during her first pregnancy.

ReturnOfFa posted...

It's grounded in whether or not my mother would have died during her first pregnancy.

And that's fine. But your opinion shouldn't have any affect on what women do whether it's good or bad. Like I've said you're entitled to your opinion but it literally should have no consideration over my bodily autonomy whether it's a good or bad opinion.

The only reason I'm replying to fa is because I like him and he's not a known misogynist like at least two of the men replying to me that I've been outright dismissing (hint: adjl is not one of them)

Knew she would be back.

Hint: Sullivan is one of them lmfao

And he can't read apparently. I said I wasn't gonna be arguing at misogynist men. I'm not arguing with Fa lol

Jen0125 posted...

And that's fine. But your opinion shouldn't have any affect on what women do whether it's good or bad. Like I've said you're entitled to your opinion but it literally should have no consideration over my bodily autonomy whether it's a good or bad opinion.

The only reason I'm replying to fa is because I like him and he's not a known misogynist like at least two of the men replying to me that I've been outright dismissing (hint: adjl is not one of them)

I said earlier, I know women who would make their own choice regarding abortion (pro-choice), but are anti-abortion when it comes to their own bodies, which is still pro-choice.

If your perspective (which I know it isn't) is fully anti-abortion, outside of your own body, I will have ample criticism for you, regardless of gender. I don't need to respect a woman for the mere fact that she's a woman - her viewpoint on how other women should be treated will factor heavily into my respect/criticism for said individual.

Love ya too Jen. I probably jumped into this crap too late and am missing context. Admittedly, I may be even more insulting towards these people who wish to control the bodies of others because I think it's very disgusting/murderous.

Jen0125 posted...

Hint: Sullivan is one of them lmfao

Nope. Just calling out your awful behavior. I got no side on this.

Jen0125 posted...

Hint: Sullivan is one of them lmfao

And he can't read apparently. I said I wasn't gonna be arguing at misogynist men. I'm not arguing with Fa lol

we chattin' :D

ReturnOfFa posted...

If your perspective (which I know it isn't) is fully anti-abortion, outside of your own body, I will have ample criticism for you, regardless of gender.

Yes as I've said I agree with this. Agreement is not validity. You can criticize someone who you disagree with without saying their stance is invalid. A woman's stance on abortion is automatically more valid because they are the directly affected party. It doesn't make the opinion "correct" or "right." I also want to say validity doesn't mean it needs to be respected.

I think you are missing context because of the length of the topic. I don't expect you to read it all lol

It's invalid if her perspective effects other women. It's only valid if that stance only effects their own self.

but yea that's my opinion, and I am defs missing context lol

ReturnOfFa posted...

It's invalid if her perspective effects other women. It's only valid if that stance only effects their own self.

but yea that's my opinion, and I am defs missing context lol

We have different ideas of what "validity" entails here, I think.

Jen0125 posted...

We have different ideas of what "validity" entails here, I think.

Totally true. You might have more experience with the technical definitions.

**look we finished our discussion in like, less than 10 posts, lmfao

ReturnOfFa posted...

Totally true. You might have more experience with the technical definitions.

Or even just philosophical differences. People get very hung up on definitions. What can ya do? Argue online about it

Suppose this topic is going to 500?

ReturnOfFa posted...

*look we finished our discussion in like, less than 10 posts, lmfao

Yeah it's almost like you don't twist everything to be personally against you and you need to launch a staunch argument to defend your damaged ego

Actually it's just like that

Jen0125 posted...

Or even just philosophical differences. People get very hung up on definitions. What can ya do? Argue online about it

It's hilarious when the argument ends up being about semantics for more than half the time >_>. Plus it's easy to have a minor disagreement in perspective and acknowledge it.

ReturnOfFa posted...

Totally true. You might have more experience with the technical definitions.

To my eye, if we're talking about validity, the dictionary definition (which I posted some 250 odd posts ago) serves just fine:

valid
/vald/
adjective

1. (of an argument or point) having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent. "a valid criticism"

The validity of an opinion, therefore, is not dependent on the speaker. Either the opinion has "a sound basis in logic or fact" or it doesn't. Either it's "reasonable or cogent" or it isn't. Who is giving that opinion shouldn't have any effect on the validity of the speaker itself.

That being said, when the validity of a view isn't immediately apparent, it's worth evaluating how credible the source is and that will involve evaluating the speaker. On matters of, say, COVID, Dr. Fauci is a more credible source of information than some talking head on Fox News and his opinions should be given more weight.

That's really the pretext for the discussion from the last 300 posts. Oddly, some people thought that actually defining validity was "playing semantics", which struck me as strange.

darkknight109 posted...

To my eye, if we're talking about validity, the dictionary definition (which I posted some 250 odd posts ago) serves just fine:

valid
/vald/
adjective

1. (of an argument or point) having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent. "a valid criticism"

The validity of an opinion, therefore, is not dependent on the speaker. Either the opinion has "a sound basis in logic or fact" or it doesn't. Either it's "reasonable or cogent" or it isn't. Who is giving that opinion shouldn't have any effect on the validity of the speaker itself.

That being said, when the validity of a view isn't immediately apparent, it's worth evaluating how credible the source is and that will involve evaluating the speaker. On matters of, say, COVID, Dr. Fauci is a more credible source of information than some talking head on Fox News and his opinions should be given more weight.

That's really the pretext for the discussion from the last 300 posts. Oddly, some people thought that actually defining validity was "playing semantics", which struck me as strange.

i don't care. i said my opinion. Jen said hers. validity is subjective. have a great day.

read my new book: how to be a **** to all genders at once

isn't it weird how valid and invalid have completely unrelated meanings?

Like literally all I'm saying is you can be an ally cool but it really should be up to people with a uterus and your opinion as a person with no uterus doesn't matter as much as the people directly affected. If a woman and a man both have pro-choice opinions with the same background and you have a speaking event about abortion rights are you going to hire the man or woman? Why would you hire a man over a woman to talk about that? You wouldn't because you'd want to hear the woman's perspective more. And that really caused all this fuss instead of just shutting the fuck up lol it's wild how far some men will go to talk over a woman

Boobs

Discuss

Everyone can have a valid opinion on boobs because everyone has breast tissue

darkknight109 posted...

Clearly some people are, because they're quoting things from them.

I think you're vastly underestimating my typing speed if you think my posts take "a ton of effort".

But here, if your attention span is short, I'll break this into point form:
-Not all women can have abortions, but you still think those that can't should have a greater say, which makes you a liar and a hypocrite
-At no point have I argued that my opinion on abortion should be given any more importance than a layperson
-Credibility, of which professional qualifications, experience, and expertise all play a role, is far more important than identity politics.

Or, to make it really short: You're wrong.

your opinion

does not

mean more

than a womans

on abortion.

full stop. shut the fuck up.

Jen0125 posted...

Everyone can have a valid opinion on boobs because everyone has breast tissue

Men have milk glands and ducts?

streamofthesky posted...

Still not worth all the typing and effort you're making just to try and virtue signal, "I AM NOT SAYING I AM ONE OF THOSE MEN" (direct quote) to them. They don't fucking care. Stop worrying about seeking their approval. They literally hate you.

he can say that all he wants, it doesn't change that he has argued for 9 pages and 70,000 words that his opinion is more valid than a womans.

i don't hate him, i don't hold any positive or negative opinion on him, or adj. my respect for them has vastly lowered, however, because they can't grasp, you also, that your opinion is not equal to or greater than a womans on the subject of something only a woman is able to do.

Jen0125 posted...

Everyone can have a valid opinion on boobs because everyone has breast tissue

Everyone has breasts. Only women have tissue containing lobules that can produce milk. Your boobs are not the same as a man's boobs.

But they're still boobs

sodium-chloride posted...

Everyone has breasts. Only women have tissue containing lobules that can produce milk. Your boobs are not the same as a man's boobs.

That's why I said breast tissue. We have different anatomy inside but we all have breast tissue.

Do you see this? He wants to argue lol. You guys say it's me but I'm not over here starting a new one for no reason.

Boobs are serious business

i am pro boob

i'm pro-superboob

Adam_Savage posted...

your opinion

does not

mean more

than a womans

on abortion.

Already addressed this several times.

darkknight109 posted...

There are men whose expertise means they have extremely important input into this discussion, whether that's researchers who have studied this issue extensively or doctors who can speak firsthand to the horrors of having to treat a woman who suffered a botched back-alley abortion (and if that woman died from it, she obviously can't speak for herself). Those people have opinions and statements that need to be given careful consideration, opinions that no layperson - male or female - can speak to. And, yes, their view should be given outsize importance - they are the experts and having experts weigh in on a matter like this is critical to good policy.

To be abundantly clear, since certain individuals with low attention spans still seem to be missing this, I AM NOT SAYING I AM ONE OF THOSE MEN. I am very much not. I do not pretend to have any experience or credentials that would lend my opinion any notable weight in this category.

darkknight109 posted...

To be abundantly clear, since certain individuals with low attention spans still seem to be missing this, I AM NOT SAYING I AM ONE OF THOSE MEN. I am very much not. I do not pretend to have any experience or credentials that would lend my opinion any notable weight in this category.

darkknight109 posted...

To be abundantly clear, since certain individuals with low attention spans still seem to be missing this, I AM NOT SAYING I AM ONE OF THOSE MEN.

Now please stop repeating lies.

Adam_Savage posted...

full stop. shut the fuck up.

Keep trying to silence me all you like, it won't work.

Your opinion on this is irrelevant.

Adam_Savage posted...

my respect for them has vastly lowered

Who are you and is there a reason I should care?

Metalsonic66 posted...

Boobs

SilentSeph posted...

Boobs are serious business

LaggnFragnLarry posted...

i am pro boob

Adam_Savage posted...

i'm pro-superboob

Lauren Boobert

sodium-chloride posted...

Only women have tissue containing lobules that can produce milk.

Then what do you call the shit that comes out of my nips when you play with them too much?
*edit* Ah I see, thanks Zang