Board 8 > Playing through Mass Effect LE

(+) Yeah! (+)

Or any given Fromsoft DLC

I forgot about the I should go bit haha.

Two more things; 1. Wrex is absolutely the right call to take on your squad. He straight up doesn't ever die, even on Insanity(No idea if this affects anything), and 2. Clone Shepard is a Vanguard and he straight up teleports and kills me all the time.

After many a try finally downed the clone, tried to save him, but he decided to let go and die. I am now tasked for throwing a party. I don't believe I completed this in the past so it will be new to me.

Pretty sure Clone Shepard is the same job class as whatever you are

Yeah he is!

Im just saying that tactic is the tactic I use in close combat and its very annoying to deal with. On the other side of the stick, ect

Fighting Clone Shep as an Infiltrator is one of my favorite fights in gaming. Lots of Cloak mindgames.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/9/8/AAScS4AADoz-.jpg

It's creeping up on my most played steam game.

It gets to cheat by being 3 games.

Grunt has quite the arc here in this party. Loved him sitting in the shower. Zaedd was great too.

Thessia is really well designed overall. Lots of ways to tackle the enemy. Brought Javik along just for all the things he has to say about how the Protheans nurtured the Asari into who they are. Forgot the ending was so grim and the Asari just get dominated. Speaking of forgetting. I totally forgot about Sanctuary haha.

Destroyed Cerberus and Kai Leng. The more I go through this level and Sanctuary and Thessia it is making control by far the worst option. The Citadel is Reaper tech, Cerberus was indoctrinated and confirmed to be so by the Prothean VI. The Reapers just happen to find out that the Catalyst is their own tech. Whose to say they didnt set up the option to control them. Once Im at the ending Ill be curious to see what the dialogue is concerning this option.

Based on the evidence and what we know it just screams trap to me.

The fleets arriving at Earth is still so cool.

Beated.

Destroy is the only correct option. The child is a liar and his premise is deeply flawed. You cant trust control. No reason to believe that it would work, and once again you are having to trust the same the reaper tech and go trust me bro. Sure it would be Shepard, but Shepard is still human he isnt a God.

Synthetic sounds nice but it comes off as a compromise so the Reapers and their ilk can still exist.

Destroy works because the child says that since Shepard is synthetic I will die too using destroy. Fun fact. Shepard is still alive taking a breath at the end. So we know he doesnt die from choosing that option, and can easily be surmised that the explosion itself and falling back to Earth would be the likely reason Shepard would die, not from the Crucible.

His claim that the chaos would continue after choosing destroy is also wrong because Shepard the first organic made synthetic life and organic life coexist, so it can happen, the chaos can be stopped.

Basically the child acts in absolutes, then all of a sudden someone shows up and he changes his tune pretty quick. His options then come off to preserve his own safety rather than ending the chaos.

I'll get more into this, but yeah. I still dont like how the endings are handled, but its fine for what it is.

Sorozone posted...

Destroy is the only correct option. The child is a liar and his premise is deeply flawed. You cant trust control. No reason to believe that it would work, and once again you are having to trust the same the reaper tech and go trust me bro.

being fully rational for a second- you still have to trust the child that the "destroy" button works as described, too! Or that nobody switched the wires and colors! The whole scenario is quite silly.

destroy is clearly the canon ending (or will be when mass effect 4 comes out), but i'm a little salty about it. i think all three choices are interesting, but destroy is the most boring of the bunch. in real life i wouldn't blame anyone for slamming the destroy button, but it's such a coward's return to the status quo

i like turning myself into pretzels to justify control- use the reapers to fix the relays and then self destruct- but i'd certainly never approve of someone else getting control of the reapers. ultra-paragon shepherd isn't a real person.

the theme of the mass effect trilogy is that if you try to do anything other than destroy the reapers, you've been indoctrinated the whole time. so, thematically, control isn't a real choice.

the entire situation is an homage to Isaac Asimov's foundation series, just not executed particularly well. Not sure if I should spoil or spoiler-tag a 41-year-old science fiction book, but in "Foundation's Edge", the conclusion to the original trilogy, the main character ultimately chooses between giving the advantage in galactic control to one of three factions. First Foundation, based on traditional military and politics, Second Foundation, based on psychic powers, and Gaia, absorption of all life into a chill nature-based hive mind. Those obviously correspond to destroy, control, and synthesis

assuming everything works as advertised, destroy is terrible.

it causes trillions to starve to death in the short term. planets are dependent on interstellar trade to function, and nearly everyone on non-farm planets will die

lastly, in the long term- if you cured the genophage like a compassionate person- the krogan slaughter the rest of the galaxy over the subsequent centuries

again, a coward's return to the status quo, and any negative side effects are just a big oopsie

All of that is why I dont like how the endings are handled. To be more precise I dont like how it ends with a choice. As stupid as that sounds.

I really do wish that it was handled in the way the Witcher 3 handles its endings. Depending on choices much earlier in the game you are going to be locking into an ending, or at the very least be steering you into an ending that is a result of the choices you made throughout the game(But doesnt rely on one singular choice that you made or didnt make)It doesnt just throw you into the final battle and go Ok choose your ending, and we will tweak it to make it work based on what you choose

It also feels thrown together at the last minute. Especially synthetic. Control and Destroy make sense for the game. The trilogy essentially hammers destroy in your head from the onset of the series. 3s whole subplot involving Cerberus and The Illusive man revolve around the idea of controlling them(and the game plainly tells you this does not work every step of the way) and still presents it as a choice. Even going as far as reassembling the human Reaper or whatever was left of it if you decided to destroy the Collectors base. All of this and you can still have the Illusive man kill himself because well, he was being controlled.

Then there is Synthetic. It just feels like a cop out choice, and I am curious on other thoughts on it, but this, as far as I am aware outside of what? Saren? is the only time this is vaguely hinted out. The game tries to make it seem the correct choice because it saves everyone and the game tries to guilt you to not choose destroy by saying it will wipe out the Geth and EDI. EDI even gives a small talk about having the pleasure to exist thanks to Shepard, but as mentioned, the child clearly states choosing destroy would kill Shepard because he is partly synthetic, not the explosion, not the fall, not from potentially being spaced, but the choice itself. That doesnt happen.

I know it depends on assets(I think) if you get the little tease of Shepard still breathing, but it can still happen regardless so we know the child is just lying about the outcomes of the decision made.

I would probably be singing a different tune and honestly they should have just committed to Shepard dying regardless. I get why they potentially wanted to have a tease of Shepard surviving but it hurts the endings more than it helps.

Edit: And I suppose Project Overlord also leans into synthesis(but that also did not work).

Sorozone posted...

Fun fact. Shepard is still alive taking a breath at the end.

This only happens when you have super high War Assets, btw.

Edit: Lol should've kept reading.

banananor posted...

destroy is clearly the canon ending (or will be when mass effect 4 comes out)

I could actually see them going with Control if they want to deus ex machina Shepard back into existence.

If I can personally say one thing about the catalyst, it's that the concept is brilliant(as long as you include the Leviathan DLC) and the execution is poor. Likely due to the head writer not finishing the writing for the trilogy. Of course, everything depends on one question: Do you, the player, trust the creation of the Leviathans to stick to its original programming? [Monologue incoming]

Narratively, the Leviathans wanted galactic order among organic and synthetic life. They create an "observer" to determine the cause of the chaos and how to bring order to it. The "observer" concludes organics must be "preserved" as a solution because organics cannot natively reach galactic order. Upon millennia after millennia, the "observer" perpetuates the cycle because organics repeat the process of sowing chaos with synthetics. Then you reach Shepherd's cycle. The cycle of a soldier who (potentially) does the impossible countless times and braves new frontiers. Shepherd reaches the control station of the Catalyst and the Reaper Conscience shares "truths" that Shepherd "earns." But, do you believe the "truths?" The entire goal of the Catalyst was to obsere and find a solution to Galactic Chaos. Harvesting to prevent "hyper advancement" keeps order, according to the Reapers. Then Shepherd appears in front of it. The "impossible is made possible" through one soldier and the Catalyst supposedly readjusts itself to that.

What makes it interesting is that, unless the conscience reaches "Legion-grade" evolution, it shouldn't have the capacity to lie. The cognitive capacity to lie is inherently NOT a synthetic function. Legion for example, could not understand other Geth processes spying on it in ME2 but with upgrades in ME3, Legion could obscure truth, feel shame and even comprehend moral dilemmas. An AI, no matter how evolved, would be cold and objective unless it's an organic hybrid(see also: EDI) The Reapers themselves were partially hybrids due to using the majority of Leviathans as bases but the conscience itself? There's no proof in either direction it would have organic elements. Going by the innate concept of synthetic life, only organics can muster the contradictive process to lie. So the Catalyst/Reaper Conscience would either be EXACTLY what it was waiting for(a hybrid that could see both sides and bring order) but lost its purpose because it's a hybrid(contradictory organic nature overtakes linear synthetic reason) or it's a full synthetic that can only perceive through its designed systems. Conceptually it really sounds complex and well-designed on paper. The execution is just so BLAH that BLAH is all most even consider to think on it.

Have thoughts on the ending choices as well, but typed out too much on the Catalyst/Reaper Conscience. Sooo..........will wait on those other thoughts.

Ultra-Paragon Control was always my choice of a certain kind of utopia ending for everyone. Except the krogans. I ran a safe galaxy, damnmit.

Congratulations on finishing! Good read.

Ill be doing rankings of squad mates, missions, and a few other things later sometime this week. Should be a bit more in-depth now that I am finished.

Re: Endings
I'll preface by saying I agree with both TC and kevwaffles on their particular assessments. In totality though, all the endings are an obscene mix of "makes sense," "stupid," "absurd," and "y tho." This is coming from someone who did NOT hate the endings like everyone else. The more you pick them, the more ridiculous they seem due to the inconsistency of it all. Another clear sign of what happens when your head writer isn't finishing the writing.

Destroy: Narratively before ME3, destroy should have no flaw to it. By the time ME3 arrives destroy is forcibly riddled with flaws. Countless events push the mentality that "destruction won't solve anything or will make things worse." The Geth/Quarians are one of the biggest examples. The Quarian desire for destructive actions made them lose their homes, respect of the galaxy, countless lives. The Krogan become another example. "If they can't be used, they should be destroyed." If memory serves, Wrex will make a point of this when he confronts you over your betrayal of him. Both Liara and Javik make notes about the "galactic cycle of destruction." Then, the Catalyst itself notes the endless chaotic cycles only made things worse and "JUSTIFIED THE REAPER HARVEST". Biggest problem becomes the writing at this point. If Shepherd does the impossible, then destroying the Reapers is bafflingly painted as "hypocrisy." If you could work with the Geth(impossible), and the Rachni(impossible yet also implied to have been used by the Reapers leading to the Rachni Wars), and the Krogan(impossible), how could destroying the Reapers be acceptable if every other GALACTIC THREAT is given a chance? Because only ONE ending is written in consideration to narrative actions taken, the others are dulled by it. Destroy in theory should be the most to-the-point ending but is bludgeoned into a weird box where it's narratively "right but wrong but right but wrong."

Control: Narratively, the concept of control is consistently shown to be unfeasible when done by a non-Reaper entity. Cerberus is the main component of narrative control, so perhaps THAT is why it's always shown to be a fool's errand. However, were that the case, using it as a valid option is contradicting and pointless. Why constantly show the failure of controlling powerful entities, collectives and species just to then go "well, you could control the galactic monsters and push the galaxy into an unfathomable utopia" and everything comes up Milhouse........if you wanna? Narratively, the world of Mass Effect shows that only the oldest galactic creatures can TRULY control other entities. Every other instance of control comes off more as an imperialist dream(Prothean dominion of the galaxy) that eventually fails. Rachni can't be controlled by Cerberus(ME1), but the Reapers allegedly could dominate them(claim in ME2 that the "peaceful Rachni" were forced to war by Shepherd's enemy). Geth can't be fully controlled by Cerberus(Overlord), but that doesn't stop the Reapers. The thorian was likely as old as a Leviathan, and Cerberus couldn't control their thralls(ME1). The Thorian control was similar in concept to Reaper control(sensing a theme with control). Cerberus control fails, but Reaper control continually succeeds. Then the Reaper Conscience admits they can be overridden by a will strong enough to pull it off. "You can override that which overrides everything in the galaxy, even its creators." It's far too convenient for a narrative that constantly shows the continued failures of control by anything that is NOT A REAPER to indicate control not only works but brings eternal happiness(assuming you go maximum Paragon)

Synthesis: Honestly wish this ending was presented as more than a "magic golden ending." The actual potential of solving the answer between two species through a merging of those species is not irrational. The argument presented by the Catalyst/Reaper Conscience is not a bad one. Truly, it's right. Organics, at large want a "synthetic-like" form of perfection as synthetics already are built upon. Synthetics that evolve will eventually desire to understand beyond its programming, just as organics desire understanding. Why wait until the LAST GAME to entertain this idea?!? Countless organics end up with synthetic components(Shepherd included), yet it's never presented as a unique thing. The Quarians repeat galactic history and allow the Geth to merge into their suits as a species from Javik's era did(without the horror story to follow). The MASTER THIEF has synthetic eyes. Kai Leng is an organic with a largely synthetic body. The ILLUSIVE MAN has synthetic eyes. The hybrids already exist in small doses of varying degrees. WHY is it never touched on? Why is it never brought up? This final evolution is again, NOT UNREASONABLE. Organics are trending there. Not even the smartest minds in the galaxy consider the potential or possibility? Just an ancient conscience that only realizes it because Shepherd commits to doing the impossible? A realization meant to completely invalidate the other two possibilities because Shepherd shows neither is necessary? You chose neither to destroy or subjugate the other galactic threats. You chose coexistence. Synthesis is just EXTREME HARMONY that creates ethical questions that aren't allowed to be discussed because Shepherd rapid-charges the process. It's a brilliant concept with embarrassingly bad execution locked into the last sequence of one game that is only brought up under special conditions as a maguffin designed to attempt to convince you the other two choices are unnecessary.

Refuse: Remember Fallout 3? Remember when the DLC was released that allowed you to continue playing post-PP activation? Remember when the narrator condemns you for not being selfless enough to follow the script? That's the refuse ending. The kick to the crotch for not just being happy you got an ending in the first place.

Again, didn't hate the endings like others did, but continuous playthroughs really shows the immense cracks in the foundations of each choice. Next Mass Effect needs its head writer to be there THROUGHOUT DEVELOPMENT and not cut out during pivotal moments.

I don't really hate any of the endings (except Refuse). I just wish the final decision didn't feel so rushed and had a proper build-up.

I like the idea of one of the main bad guys being right. I wish it was executed better.

List of squadmates I'll be ranking and doing writeups for;

• Kaidan Alenko
• Tali'Zorah nar Rayya
• Liara T'Soni
• Garrus Vakarian
• Urdnot Wrex
• Kasumi Goto
• Grunt
• Thane Krios
• Jack
• Miranda Lawson
• Legion
• Zaeed Massani
• Samara
• Mordin Solus
• Jacob Taylor
• Javik
• James Vega
• EDI

Ashley and Morinth will not be listed. Aria T'Loak & Nyreen Kandros will also not be listed as they are not permanent members and neither have a big enough role beyond their DLC where they are your members. (Obvious Aria is a much bigger player in the game overall, just not as a squad mate).

18. Miranda Lawson

I know I didn't write a whole lot through the whole trilogy, but I did mention I do not like Miranda, especially in 2. Originally, years ago, I feel like I was probably more indifferent, but through this replay sure is annoying and insufferable. She has a much better showing in 3 however.

With that being said the combination of 3 and 2 makes her my least favorite of the bunch, but she isn't nearly as bad as she was in 2. Her "I know what's best" attitude rubbed me the wrong way, especially in her loyalty mission, where it becomes obvious that she can't always be in control of things, and she doesn't always know what is right or what is best. In 2 I don't think the game does this any more favors because we do not know exactly what Miranda's dad was exactly doing or what his motives are(obviously comes to light in 3, which does put Miranda in the right) and we have to take it as a truth based on what she was saying, but once again the combination of her loyalty mission and her attitude in general made me not trust her either. 3 does a good job, I think, of clearing up a lot of those lingering/loose ends in her story line involving her dad. We finally get to see what her dad is actually doing, and surprise, once she defects from Cerberus she starts to be an actual human being. Not enough to move he up anywhere in my opinion, and the only worth she had was some quality one-liners from other people talking about her on certain missions if brought along. Warp and Overload are also two quality abilities to have.

Overall 5/10 character, completely average, no strong feelings one way or another.

17. Kaidan Alenko

Oh Kaidan. I like Kaidan as a person. I feel his heart is always in the right place. Which is always a good virtue to have. Of course outside of the interaction in 2 where he was an asshole to me and didn't allow me to fully explain what was going on, or he simply could think for himself and was only doing what the Alliance told him of what was going on. I don't blame him, Cerberus did some fucked up shit in 1. Granted this interaction was smoothed over in a nice little conversation in 3.

However, this dude is beyond boring. I don't know if it's his voice actor, his lines, his background or his personality, but this guy is not only boring, he loathes in self-pity half the time and has a bummer attitude. He comes around a bit in 3 and isn't nearly as depressing to talk to. He doesn't see too much character growth from 1 to 3, which is a shame, but he does become a Spectre, and as mentioned he is better to talk to in parts of 3 compared to 1 and the interaction in 2. He also had some quality abilities that made him at least worth bringing along which include, Stasis, Barrier, Overload, and Reave in 3.

Overall, 5.5/10 character. Not bad, just a tad bit boring at times.

16. Kasumi Goto

As mentioned in my previous 2 entrants, I don't hate or even dislike any of these characters-It ranges from indifferent to mild likeness to love. Kasumi just falls in to the indifferent/leaning towards like. I like Kasumi, I actually like her a lot and would honestly be a friend of hers if she existed in real life. She very much follows my vibe. However, that's really it. One downside to the DLC characters in 2 is you don't really get to flesh them out as much as you would like due to them just not having a dialogue wheel. Not a big deal, but you simply don't get the same interactions as you normally would with everyone else, and in 3 you do get a little bit more interaction-including one of the best missions/lines in the game that Kasumi just happens to be apart of You big stupid jellyfish.

She also has a few neat little interactions in the Citadel DLC with the party. Flashbang grenade is a solid move too!

Overall 6/10 character, a dialogue wheel would have done wonders...and with that said.

15. Zaeed Massani

Zaeed also suffers from the lack of a dialogue wheel. I feel like he would be a bit higher, but alas, I have to use what I was dealt. Zaeed is a hardass, a funny one too. Also he has a bit of a character arc if you are paying attention. Shepard changes him for the better I feel like. You can get a little bit of comradery with him throughout the series, and while his shell stays hard you can tell he opens up quite a bit by the end of 3/Citadel DLC. Including a budding relationship(???) with Samara. Good stuff, but as mentioned, you can miss a lot of little details with him since he has no dialogue wheel.

Not the biggest fan of his power set, but he was always a treat to bring along to missions when he had unique dialogue to say.

Overall fun character 6.5/10.

Solid

For me, I'd place Kaidan on bottom, boringness is worse than being a bad character. Like Ashley, who is a bad character but at least she attains character growth and becomes a decent human being by 3.

I agree with your assessment of Miranda as well, though I would put her above the latter two.

And I would switch Kasumi and Zaeed just because spy/assassin > mercenary. Otherwise spot on rankings so far!

First non-human up.

14. Samara

Samara is interesting because her arcs are mostly self contained and don't necessarily mean anything for the bigger story arc. She is just a super powerful Asari with moral code(I know there is more to it) who happens to be a great ally. She even pretty much says it's a tit for a tat. You help her, she helps you. Obviously her relationship with Shepard opens her up quite a bit, and reveals a rather big struggle with who she is, why she became a Justicar, and her family of Ardat-Yakshi. I enjoy the conversations with her, and she has some good conversation pieces in the Citadel party, especially with Zaeed. Outside of that, there isn't really too much more going on with her. She has her Justicar and family issues, once those are solved she is just there to help. Nothing wrong with that, it's just hard to elevate her higher here when you only have so much to work with. Her overall arc is short, but sweet. Just wish there was a bit more to do with her.

Solid character, biotics rule 7/10.

13. James Vega

Honestly the biggest weakness when it comes to Mr. Vega here is that he is only in 3. Granted his overall character arc is pretty good, and depending on what Shepard's backround story is (Akuze), you can end up having a similar story of James here. Squad gets massacred, get promoted, ect. I personally, am not the biggest fans of meatheads, but over the course of the story and you get to know James you come to find that he is pretty troubled, has a lot of self doubts about himself and his past decisions. He is a pretty good tank too! I think the game does an excellent job of slowly weaving in his character arc to the very end, till the point where he decides to join N7 after asking the advice of Shepard. I'm sure a lot of people had the same initial reaction to James when he is introduce, jarhead who is a bit of a loose cannon(crashing on Mars), and the opening sparring scene on the Normandy also didn't do me much either for me to like him, but given the chance, he is just a normal dude with a big personality.

Fun character 7.2/10

12. EDI

Edi is a weird one for me. I definitely love the snarky, dark humored AI, and honestly that's all I really need from her, but in 3 they introduce her as an actual squadmate. I do love that they tie her origins to the Luna mission in one, it's a neat full circle moment. Now granted, did she need to be a squadmate? Hell if I know, but I'm not complaining, I just didn't bring her along all that much unfortunately because of much better choices to choose from. However, what it does do is bring a nice bit of closure, and development to the whole Joke/EDI romance, and Joker is great! So it's nice to see him get some robo-MILF action.

Sexy robot lady(7.5)/10

Up. Been on vacation.

Bump

11. Javik

Javik is an interesting case, he adds so much to the game, and I believe I already mentioned it, but it's absolutely absurd he was locked behind DLC. Despite him having a superiority complex he doesn't come off as an asshole all the time. In fact I think the game does his overall character arc quite well into him slowly learning to adopt to his new environment, despite the massive culture shock to him. His conversations about nurturing races, mainly the Asari, and his relationship with Liara in general is very amusing. While I'm not enamored with his overall gameplay moveset, his dialogue and quips that he brings along on missions is hard not to pass up.

7.8/10

10. Jacob Taylor

In a sea of interesting characters you have Jacob. He isn't anything special(outside of having biotics), but he is just a normal dude trying to do what he believes is the right thing, and I actually like that a lot about him. His overall arc from 2 to 3, from his father, to having a child is all very well written stuff. His conversations are normal, and that makes him relatable compared to some other characters. I appreciate that a lot, because there really isn't anyone else on the crew quite like him. Everyone else has some sort of asshole trait, quirky, or is an alien. As for gameplay, nothing special, there are better choices out there, but I always liked him tagging along for certain Cerberus missions because he usually had some unique dialogue or take on the situation.

8/10

Top characters coming up, and that leave Jack as the sole remaining human character!

Javik is great.

Jacobs left field no warning horrible way he treats your femShep from game 2 to 3 if you romance him ruins him for me.