Current Events > It's midway 2022. Anyone still think Genesis > SNES?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Genesis* Does... rule most** 16-bit categories;
Best Beat'em Up: Streets of Rage 2
Best Shooter: Thunder Force IV
Best Platformer: Sonic3+K
Best Action: Gunstar Heroes/Adventures of Batman & Robin/Alien Soldier/ Contra Hard Corps
Best Fighting: Super Street Fighter II/Yu Yu Hakusho
Best Technical Achievement: Adventures of Batman & Robin/Ex Ranza
Most Innovative Gameplay: Dynamite Headdy
Best Movie License: Aladdin/Robocop vs. Terminator

* Not including Mega CD or 32X
** I will concede that SNES is better overall in the Best Music and RPG/Action RPG categories, even though Genesis has amazing entries in these categories.

Also, I don't play puzzle games, so I can't rank.

bloodyarts posted...

Best Technical Achievement: Adventures of Batman & Robin/Ex Ranza

Ehhhhh, most of these come down to personal opinion, but I will argue to the death that the best technical achievement on either console was Rendering Ranger R2 on SNES.

https://youtu.be/Tl7D25I6yDc?t=694

Seriously. How the fuck is this a 16 bit game? Looks like it was supposed to come out on the Saturn.

electricbugs2 posted...

Ehhhhh, most of these come down to personal opinion, but I will argue to the death that the best technical achievement on either console was Rendering Ranger R2 on SNES.

https://youtu.be/Tl7D25I6yDc?t=694

Seriously. How the fuck is this a 16 bit game? Looks like it was supposed to come out on the Saturn.

The ship take off is cool, but the rest of the game kinda looks rather generic and like the rest of the games of its era.

For technical achievement, on the Genesis, I point to Vectorman 1 and 2. Also, Castlevania Bloodlines. And possibly Virtua Racing if we want to go there.

electricbugs2 posted...

...I will argue to the death that the best technical achievement on either console was Rendering Ranger R2 on SNES.

That looks really nice, but it honestly doesn't seem to be something the SNES wasn't thought to be capable of, especially after Donkey Kong Country.
To me, a console's technical achievement should be a feat that was previously thought to be impossible for the machine to do within that generation.

Oh, while I'm thinking about it...didn't one of the Contra games on the Genesis have semi-3D levels???

DarkRoast posted...

Listen to SoR 2's OST then come back

I see your SoR2 and raise you ActRaiser
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxCJJxoWwII
same composer lol

Are these Sega apologists really tryna use music as their ace? Lmao man it's 2022!

Lunar_Savage posted...

The ship take off is cool, but the rest of the game kinda looks rather generic and like the rest of the games of its era.

For technical achievement, on the Genesis, I point to Vectorman 1 and 2. Also, Castlevania Bloodlines. And possibly Virtua Racing if we want to go there.

Fair enough. I'll give you Bloodlines though, spectacular artwork.

bloodyarts posted...

That looks really nice, but it honestly doesn't seem to be something the SNES wasn't thought to be capable of, especially after Donkey Kong Country.
To me, a console's technical achievement should be a feat that was previously thought to be impossible for the machine to do within that generation.

In that case I would point to Tengai Maky Zero, another late SNES game that looked like an early Saturn/PS1 game, but that's also a JRPG which the SNES to this day has no equal in so that's probably unfair lol. Plus it was using some fancy chip to help mitigate any problems.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

One major problem the SNES has with shmup's is most of the best one's stayed in Japan, go figure.

Veggeta_MAX posted...

You don't like playing exclusive classics?

Who has time for that?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Even if it was just beat em ups the SNES still win by a bajillion miles.

Rival turf
Blood brothers
Super double dragon
Turtles in time
Peace keepers

And I didn't even mention any Capcom games yet lol

After listening to SSF2 on Genesis, SNES SSF2 is far better

That was an assault on my ears

Genesis had the better versions of Strike games, even the Amiga versions of Desert and Jungle Strike are better than the SNES versions.

PowerOats posted...

After listening to SSF2 on Genesis, SNES SSF2 is far better

That was an assault on my ears

Langrisser 2/Der Langrisser is the only soundtrack I know of where both versions actually sound competent and wasn't just some cheap port-over
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRJVzEfNtVw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1sFd_pwHZU

FL81 posted...

Langrisser 2/Der Langrisser is the only soundtrack I know of where both versions actually sound competent and wasn't just some cheap port-over
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRJVzEfNtVw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1sFd_pwHZU

Yeah it sounds good. Pays to have a good Melody too

Road Rash says hi.

I'm surprised no one has bought up the Genesis headphone jack.
And that, by that, it was Stereo out of the box.
That was a big deal at the time.

electricbugs2 posted...

Fair enough. I'll give you Bloodlines though, spectacular artwork.

In that case I would point to Tengai Maky Zero, another late SNES game that looked like an early Saturn/PS1 game, but that's also a JRPG which the SNES to this day has no equal in so that's probably unfair lol. Plus it was using some fancy chip to help mitigate any problems.

One major problem the SNES has with shmup's is most of the best one's stayed in Japan, go figure.

I'll have to look the Tengai game up, but I can say I feel SEGA had a similar issue with their RPGs. If they had bothered to bring their catalog to the NA market, they might have had more success. They had great RPGs, but were too busy trying to cater to the 90s' action crowd.

That said, the ones that did make it, are pretty much all fantastic. Shining Force, Shining in the Darkness, Phantasy Star, D&D, Shadowrun, Fatal Labyrinth, Might & Magic, YsIII, Exile, Beyond Oasis (action-rpg, Zelda like)...and hell, I'm sure I'm forgetting something else.

Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, I will give a special shout out to two SNES titles: Demon's Crest and Super Mario RPG. I think those games really did do some interesting things.

PowerOats posted...

After listening to SSF2 on Genesis, SNES SSF2 is far better

True, it doesn't sound as nice. But, the Genesis version had better animation and smoother gameplay that was closer to the arcade.

Anyway SNES and Genesis both have some amazing soundtracks and I could post examples all day long for both

but SNES edges out the victory imo

bulletproofvita posted...

Road Rash says hi.

I hope you don't mean music. Or sound effects. Or graphics. Or smooth scrolling...
all of which Road Rash severely underperforms.

bloodyarts posted...

True, it doesn't sound as nice. But, the Genesis version had better animation and smoother gameplay that was closer to the arcade.

What a subjective claim. Here's mine: me and my fam were hardcore fighting gamers and they were always preferred on SNES.

Fatal fury
Sf2
Mortal kombat

Lunar_Savage posted...

I'll have to look the Tengai game up

https://youtu.be/0OJu4qD0Ck8

Game itself is kind of generic, but the animations are outrageous for a 16 bit 90's game, and it had a lot of features that are now super common place in all RPG's like a day/night cycle.

Actually come to think of it all the late JRPG's looked fucking spectacular for their time. Get a load of the original Star Ocean.

https://youtu.be/CP5deW7YaYc

Japanese developers were pushing the SNES to it's breaking point in the late 90's, but most of North America had already moved on to the 64/PSX/Saturn so a lot of these are games I discovered much later in life.

Oh also, Monstania (Thanks to SNESDrunk for bringing this one up)

https://youtu.be/f_17g3vgWhQ

And Arabian Nights.

https://youtu.be/jBmAqE-IWPQ

Lot of the 2.5D games from the later years of the console have aged really well.

bulletproofvita posted...

Road Rash says hi.

As much as I fucking love Road Rash, I'm not even remotely going to point at it on the Genesis as being a great game (it doesn't even really push the limits of the system, to my knowledge). However, it is fucking fun and the music is tolerable to a point while playing.

However, I do totally fucking nominate it for a full blown remake. Especially if they keep the bike shop mechanics from the second game and up the level of violence possible. Honestly, EA could probably have some real fun under that license these days.

electricbugs2 posted...

https://youtu.be/0OJu4qD0Ck8

Game itself is kind of generic, but the animations are outrageous for a 16 bit 90's game, and it had a lot of features that are now super common place in all RPG's like a day/night cycle.

Actually come to think of it all the late JRPG's looked fucking spectacular for their time. Get a load of the original Star Ocean.

https://youtu.be/CP5deW7YaYc

Japanese developers were pushing the SNES to it's breaking point in the late 90's, but most of North America had already moved on to the 64/PSX/Saturn so a lot of these are games I discovered much later in life.

Ah, very nice. I see your points. And yeah, I agree. The late 90s RPGs on the SNES are what made me turn back and go "maybe I did miss some gems" later in life. These look cool. I might have to add them to my "must play" list.

I think both machines ultimately probably could have eeked out an extra year or two on their respective life cycles. But progress comes first for a hungry hungry market demanding new 3D games. Can probably thank PC for that.

Lunar_Savage posted...

I think both machines ultimately probably could have eeked out an extra year or two on their respective life cycles. But progress comes first for a hungry hungry market demanding new 3D games. Can probably thank PC for that.

Agreed. The Genesis was hurt by the CD/32X failures, and the SNES was relying on fat processing chips, but both could have definitely squeezed out a bit more if people weren't so gung ho about full 3D. Even sadder considering most early 3D games haven't aged the best compared to their hand drawn 16 bit counterparts.

how the fuck did Nintendo go from JRPG powerhouse with the SNES

to the N64 with Quest 64 and Ogre Battle

electricbugs2 posted...

Agreed. The Genesis was hurt by the CD/32X failures, and the SNES was relying on fat processing chips, but both could have definitely squeezed out a bit more if people weren't so gung ho about full 3D. Even sadder considering most early 3D games haven't aged the best compared to their hand drawn 16 bit counterparts.

lmfao, so truuuue.

Don't even get me started on the 32X. I fucking love that thing and it had some great games. Tempo, Knuckles Chaotix, Metal Head, Virtua Fighter, Kolibri, hell, even Star Wars Arcade was fun. All kinds of untapped potential.

Sega had it with Sports game, but other than that it was Ninten..DO for the win.

FL81 posted...

how the fuck did Nintendo go from JRPG powerhouse with the SNES

to the N64 with Quest 64 and Ogre Battle

Square was originally a 2nd party developer for Nintendo, but they started to butt heads with Nintendo heads over the choice to stick with carts. Square moved to Sony, Enix merged with Square, and that was the end of that.

FL81 posted...

how the fuck did Nintendo go from JRPG powerhouse with the SNES

to the N64 with Quest 64 and Ogre Battle

They came late to the game and tried to battle against SEGA's outdated action games that were all the rage, proving they could do it in 3-D, but better. Meanwhile, SEGA abandoned the Saturn because developers kept whining about the complex architecture being difficult to work with (it was multi-core and new. It frustrated the hell out of devs).

Then in comes Sony. Trying to be the "we can do it all" machine. Platformers, action games, RPGs, etc. And they were doing it at a slightly more affordable price point.

Then meanwhile, SEGA gets duped into going all in on the Dreamcast with 3DO and Microsoft (I keep thinking there's a third company involved, but I forget who). Anyway, eventually, Microsoft backed out of that partnership entirely after launch to do their own thing and give us the Xbox. Not that I'm complaining too hard, but it was dirty pool on Microsoft's end. They literally went into the partnership with only the intent of learning about the console market and how to compete. Once they learned, they left SEGA high and dry.

So, really, all Nintendo could do during that era was run around confused on who and what they were competing with. It led to very experimental titles.

only lamers think SNES is not as good as sega. I mean sega has sonic..... and nothing else. SNES has an awesome list of games. We would be listing them forever if we tried naming them all.

PowerOats posted...

Very unpopular Hot Take; Super Metroids soundtrack and sound design is not good. Muffled as fuck. Everything sounds like it was poorly ripped from another game.

I also don't like SM, ZM is more my speed

The ice beam does get pretty tiring to listen to after a while.

My favourite game on SNES (Super Metroid) is better than my favourite game on Mega Drive (Streets of Rage 2), but overall I think there are still more games I love on Mega Drive than SNES.

Both are superb libraries, though, you're not going to go wrong with either.

Ubergeneral3 posted...

I mean sega has sonic..... and nothing else.

Is this your expert opinion?

Beyond Oasis > Link to the Past

Virtua Racing says hi

bulletproofvita posted...

Virtua Racing says hi

I mentioned that game earlier, and honestly it's a phenomenal technical achievement. I still can't believe they got any kind of true 3-D game to run on the Genesis. (note, that it did require a secondary chip inside the cartridge to run, but SNES did the same thing with a few games). And then, the 32X really just kinda demolished all previous examples (with some minor differences, as you'll find some still find the 16-bit experience better, which is frankly surprising). That alone, put it at pretty much the forefront of technical accomplishment of the system. Does anything on the SNES even come close?

The only thing that comes to immediate mind is Star Fox. But, to be honest, I genuinely don't know much about that series or how the system went about accomplishing their effects. Star Fox was 1993, and Virtua Racing was 1994.

And between the two, I want to give the edge to Virtua Racing still, because when I'm looking at Star Fox, there's a lot of plainly colored geometric shapes (the deep backgrounds are kinda pretty though. But, not rendered in a way that gels entirely with the game in front of you), where as Virtua Racing actually tries to implement some life into their geometry so you know for sure what you're looking at (and the background meshes better with the style, imo).

Lunar_Savage posted...

The only thing that comes to immediate mind is Star Fox. But, to be honest, I genuinely don't know much about that series or how the system went about accomplishing their effects. Star Fox was 1993, and Virtua Racing was 1994.

https://youtu.be/Cw5S1rsT7CE

No, I didn't even think so back then. Genesis had a great library, but it was pretty inferior

Man, Sega apologists really grasping for straws here.

electricbugs2 posted...

https://youtu.be/Cw5S1rsT7CE

Fucking, NEAT. I like it.

Basically, did the same thing. Used extra chips. But unfortunately, from what I gathered, generally did it worse than the Genesis. Though that ski game looks fuckin' dope.

Lunar_Savage posted...

Fucking, NEAT. I like it.

Basically, did the same thing. Used extra chips. But unfortunately, from what I gathered, generally did it worse than the Genesis. Though that ski game looks fuckin' dope.

The FX chip was the big one because of Star Fox, but a lot of the most powerful SNES games used all kinds of chips.

Super Mario RPG for instance used the SA1, and I already mentioned Tengai Maky Zero which used some massive decompression chip that Hudson made in house because the game was massive for the time. Interestingly, Rendering Ranger R2 (Which is my pick for the best looking game) didn't use a chip.

electricbugs2 posted...

The FX chip was the big one because of Star Fox, but a lot of the most powerful SNES games used all kinds of chips.

Super Mario RPG for instance used the SA1, and I already mentioned Tengai Maky Zero which used some massive decompression chip that Hudson made in house because the game was massive for the time. Interestingly, Rendering Ranger R2 (Which is my pick for the best looking game) didn't use a chip.

*offers hand in shake of friendship*

You sir, have just given me games to add to my list. And for that, I thank you. I might not fully agree with the system wars, but Hell. I've an open mind. *salutes as well*

Lunar_Savage posted...

*offers hand in shake of friendship*

You sir, have just given me games to add to my list. And for that, I thank you. I might not fully agree with the system wars, but Hell. I've an open mind. *salutes as well*

Cheers. I'll be blunt, I get most of this information from the YouTuber SNESDrunk who I've linked a few videos from in this thread. Probably my favorite YT channel. Discovered so many games from watching him for the past 5 years.

https://www.youtube.com/c/SNESdrunk

If you're looking for anything to do with the near 1800 games on SNES, he's your man. His Forgotten Games and Famicom RPG series have introduced me to so much crazy stuff.

Also does some Genesis games for variety, so he isn't 100 % biased towards just SNES. Plus he doesn't do the typical YouTuber "Like comment and subscribe" crap which makes him easy to watch.

electricbugs2 posted...

https://youtu.be/Cw5S1rsT7CE

I played the hell out of that as a kid

bulletproofvita posted...

Sega won that war, get over it.

It absolutely did not.