Current Events > Tesla removed from S&P 500 due to race discrimination and autopilot crashes

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-removed-p-500-esg-151726712.html

elon musk is a cuck

wait

so tesla cars were allowed to race in the 500 using auto pilot?

seemed like a dumb idea to begin with even without prior crashes

Tesla shareholders gon be pisssseeeddddd

armandro posted...

wait

so tesla cars were allowed to reace in the 500 using auto pilot?

seemed like a dumb idea to begin with even without prior crashes

. . . . . .

armandro posted...

wait

so tesla cars were allowed to race in the 500 using auto pilot?

seemed like a dumb idea to begin with even without prior crashes

*blinks*

armandro posted...

wait

so tesla cars were allowed to race in the 500 using auto pilot?

seemed like a dumb idea to begin with even without prior crashes

Lol

I thought this was a joke topic. Oh snap.

I can get behind a race to determine the best stocks.

TendoDRM posted...

*blinks*

It would have been a perfect shitpost if he wasn't 100% serious.

DrizztLink posted...

It would have been a perfect shitpost if he wasn't 100% serious.

Yeah if Complete_Idiot had posted it, I would have laughed heartily.

ESG*** index

Which still includes oil companies that dump toxic waste into poor communities drinking water.

They removed Tesla because Elon is annoying on Twitter. Im so sick of him too.

armandro posted...

wait

so tesla cars were allowed to race in the 500 using auto pilot?

seemed like a dumb idea to begin with even without prior crashes

this is a phenomenal post

armandro posted...

wait

so tesla cars were allowed to race in the 500 using auto pilot?

seemed like a dumb idea to begin with even without prior crashes

Forgot to log into the Complete_Idiot account?

armandro posted...

wait

so tesla cars were allowed to race in the 500 using auto pilot?

seemed like a dumb idea to begin with even without prior crashes

lol, real or fake, this is why I love CE

Tesla is my big moneymaker in stocks right now >_> How bad will this hurt it?

NeonOctopus posted...

Tesla is my big moneymaker in stocks right now >_> How bad will this hurt it?

Down 7% today

balls

Rathinor posted...

Down 7% today

Entirely due to the Nasdaddy being down 5% today tho

lmao Tesla was probably crashing the S&P too hard so they had to get rid of it

Heavy_D_Forever posted...

Tesla shareholders gon be pisssseeeddddd

The Twitter deal already had him on thin ice.

He is not gonna have a fun time.

Lol that was quick. He said he was voting Republican and watch the dirty tricks. Less than 24 hours later he gets outed as a racist.

Jack Ma, right now:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/5/0/AAEhCpAADPp2.jpg

armandro posted...

wait

so tesla cars were allowed to race in the 500 using auto pilot?

seemed like a dumb idea to begin with even without prior crashes

https://youtu.be/ReaQrwjBaMo

Krojen posted...

Entirely due to the Nasdaddy being down 5% today tho

Wouldn't it only be down 5 percent if that was the case?

armandro posted...

wait

so tesla cars were allowed to race in the 500 using auto pilot?

seemed like a dumb idea to begin with even without prior crashes

God tier CE post
Sup mando

Intro2Logic posted...

Wouldn't it only be down 5 percent if that was the case?

No, individual stocks, esp tech, carries a different beta multiple. So when the NASDAQ is up 2% Tesla is always up like 4%+

Tesla was also not kicked out of the S&P 500. It was kicked out of the ESG index which tracks ethical and sustainable companies like Exxon Mobile.

ChopinList posted...

Lol that was quick. He said he was voting Republican and watch the dirty tricks. Less than 24 hours later he gets outed as a racist.

article came out before his tweet. This is why gullible people flock to Elon.

womp womp

Oh damn

Maybe it's good that I only have 2 shares now, lol. I had 25 before I bought my house.

I got 6 shares when it was $400 >_>

NeonOctopus posted...

I got 6 shares when it was $400 >_>

That's about when I got my 25 shares that I used to have.

And apparently TSLA is still in the S&P 500, but they were removed from the S&P 500 ESG Index.

I'm not sure what the latter is, but I don't have that much knowledge in the realm in general.

I got 1k shares when it was $30.

CableZL posted...

That's about when I got my 25 shares that I used to have.

And apparently TSLA is still in the S&P 500, but they were removed from the S&P 500 ESG Index.

I'm not sure what the latter is, but I don't have that much knowledge in the realm in general.

ESG risk measures environmental friendliness, human rights, etc. So the index is only comprised of companies that you should feel good about. But Exxon Mobile is in it

Krojen posted...

ESG risk measures environmental friendliness, human rights, etc. So the index is only comprised of companies that you should feel good about. But Exxon Mobile is in it

Yeah, seems weird. Tesla has had racial discrimination complaints for a long time so it's interesting that they were ever in it. And yeah, Exxon is another one that shouldn't be in there.

CableZL posted...

And apparently TSLA is still in the S&P 500, but they were removed from the S&P 500 ESG Index.

I'm not sure what the latter is, but I don't have that much knowledge in the realm in general.

https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/indices/esg/sp-500-esg-index/#overview

The S&P 500 ESG Index is a broad-based, market-cap-weighted index that is designed to measure the performance of securities meeting sustainability criteria, while maintaining similar overall industry group weights as the S&P 500.

Basically the "hippie" S&P.

ChopinList posted...

Lol that was quick. He said he was voting Republican and watch the dirty tricks. Less than 24 hours later he gets outed as a racist.

There are like.... hundreds of articles from months ago about a discrimination lawsuit against tesla. What the fuck are you even talking about?

armandro posted...

wait

so tesla cars were allowed to race in the 500 using auto pilot?

seemed like a dumb idea to begin with even without prior crashes

Wut

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1526961753619369987

Lebronwon posted...

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1526961753619369987

I wish Twitter would just ban his ass.

Tesla would still be above 1,000, even in this macro, if Musk would just shut up or move on to SpaceX.

CableZL posted...

And apparently TSLA is still in the S&P 500, but they were removed from the S&P 500 ESG Index.

ESG stands for "Environmental, Social, and Governance"

Here's a video by Two Cents (one of my favorite financial channels for people new to managing personal finance) explaining ESG metrics.
https://youtu.be/rwNAS8b4QQk?t=114

Essentially it's a way of being an ethical investor. ESG companies are supposed to be companies that aren't ALL about profit at ANY cost. That you can still profit and possibly help out the environment. For example investing in a company that is about solar panels and electric cars is considered to be more environmentally friendly, whereas investing in a company that prides itself off of destroying the amazon forest to make more money is not as ESG. It's also considering other factors that are also social, so in this case, you're not absolutely fucking over your workers like TSLA has been doing through racial discrimination, and well killing people due to failed auto pilots. And then you have governence, which means your stock isn't literally overthrowing governments in order to make more money. This could be bribing the opposition that takes down a president that is possibly protecting a certain land, so once he's out of the picture you can move in and fuck up those lands.

In total, ESG is SUPPOSED to be a measure to see how ethical a company is.

https://investor.vanguard.com/etf/profile/esgv
https://investor.vanguard.com/etf/profile/overview/ESGV/portfolio-holdings

But I mean even looking at ESGV a vanguard stock ETF that tries to track ESG stocks in the US exclusively, it looks like it has some unethical stuff in it. You've got amazon which is constantly fucking over unions, Apple abusing it's workers over seas and trying to placate people by not selling chargers with new phones (this is environmentally friendly), Tesla we already talked about, we've got Comcast in there, nobody likes comcast lol.

https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-funds/profile/portfolio/VSMPX/portfolio-holdings
Looking at this which comprises about 50 percent of most of the vanguard retirement funds (at least mine targeting retirement for 2065 or 2070? I already forgot).
We've got roughly the same thing.

So what does ESGV do different? I honestly don't know. It's possible on the smaller end it's investing in more ethical stocks, but in the big picture it invests the majority of it's shares into roughly the same stuff as all their other stocks.

I colored the stocks that are the same in this picture in case people ewondered why I had random colors. Basically if it's colored it's on the other side...somewhere.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/7/0/AABn_6AADPqK.png

So I took a closer look and did a comparison, and ESG does appear to do what is best for the environment, as you can see you don't have stuff like exxon and facebook on the top 30 stocks owned in ESGV compared to retirement stocks. And the stocks that are replicated are downplayed usually for environmental reasons. So it does TRY to be a bit more ethical by putting less money than normal into unethical stuff. After all in the end an investment is about making money. If you want to invest in environmental stuff and NOT make money you can always donate. This is just my uneducated thoughts on the subject though, not my actual opinion. It's a bit confusing what ESG DOES do, but the marketing is out there that going for ESG stocks makes you a more ethical investor. (lol having amazon as your 3rd most owned stock makes you VERY ethical /s, but it's possible the robot technology and other environmental effects that amazon is investing in may out do the "bad" they're doing by fucking their workers over and overheating them in warehouses.

I CAN try to look up international ESGs and that may make a difference, but I don't really want to bother, I worked hard enough just covering US ESGs and comparing them to US stocks.

DarthAragorn posted...

I wish Twitter would just ban his ass.

Elon is Twitter now tho >_>

badjay posted...

ESG stands for "Environmental, Social, and Governance"

Here's a video by Two Cents (one of my favorite financial channels for people new to managing personal finance) explaining ESG metrics.
https://youtu.be/rwNAS8b4QQk?t=114

Essentially it's a way of being an ethical investor. ESG companies are supposed to be companies that aren't ALL about profit at ANY cost. That you can still profit and possibly help out the environment. For example investing in a company that is about solar panels and electric cars is considered to be more environmentally friendly, whereas investing in a company that prides itself off of destroying the amazon forest to make more money is not as ESG. It's also considering other factors that are also social, so in this case, you're not absolutely fucking over your workers like TSLA has been doing through racial discrimination, and well killing people due to failed auto pilots. And then you have governence, which means your stock isn't literally overthrowing governments in order to make more money. This could be bribing the opposition that takes down a president that is possibly protecting a certain land, so once he's out of the picture you can move in and fuck up those lands.

In total, ESG is SUPPOSED to be a measure to see how ethical a company is.

https://investor.vanguard.com/etf/profile/esgv
https://investor.vanguard.com/etf/profile/overview/ESGV/portfolio-holdings

But I mean even looking at ESGV a vanguard stock ETF that tries to track ESG stocks in the US exclusively, it looks like it has some unethical stuff in it. You've got amazon which is constantly fucking over unions, Apple abusing it's workers over seas and trying to placate people by not selling chargers with new phones (this is environmentally friendly), Tesla we already talked about, we've got Comcast in there, nobody likes comcast lol.

https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-funds/profile/portfolio/VSMPX/portfolio-holdings
Looking at this which comprises about 50 percent of most of the vanguard retirement funds (at least mine targeting retirement for 2065 or 2070? I already forgot).
We've got roughly the same thing.

So what does ESGV do different? I honestly don't know. It's possible on the smaller end it's investing in more ethical stocks, but in the big picture it invests the majority of it's shares into roughly the same stuff as all their other stocks.

I colored the stocks that are the same in this picture in case people ewondered why I had random colors. Basically if it's colored it's on the other side...somewhere.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/7/0/AABn_6AADPqK.png

So I took a closer look and did a comparison, and ESG does appear to do what is best for the environment, as you can see you don't have stuff like exxon and facebook on the top 30 stocks owned in ESGV compared to retirement stocks. And the stocks that are replicated are downplayed usually for environmental reasons. So it does TRY to be a bit more ethical by putting less money than normal into unethical stuff. After all in the end an investment is about making money. If you want to invest in environmental stuff and NOT make money you can always donate. This is just my uneducated thoughts on the subject though, not my actual opinion. It's a bit confusing what ESG DOES do, but the marketing is out there that going for ESG stocks makes you a more ethical investor. (lol having amazon as your 3rd most owned stock makes you VERY ethical /s, but it's possible the robot technology and other environmental effects that amazon is investing in may out do the "bad" they're doing by fucking their workers over and overheating them in warehouses.

I CAN try to look up international ESGs and that may make a difference, but I don't really want to bother, I worked hard enough just covering US ESGs and comparing them to US stocks.

This is a really helpful breakdown, thank you!!

DrizztLink posted...

Like, if the ESG measures environmental impact, Amazon's s***ass labor practices wouldn't be included in the metrics because labor and environmental concerns are different measurements with different variables.

I believe each value of Environmental (how good you are to your environment), Social (how good you are socially, to workers and people), and Governance (how transparent you are with your company), it's supposed to summed up into one big number. But looking more into it, there isn't ONE unbiased corporation that scores everyone. Literally you can buy an analyst to do it for you and spit out those numbers for you as long as you're certified is how I imagine it after reading this statement.

A variety of governmental organizations and financial institutions have devised ways to measure the extent to which a specific corporation is aligned with ESG goals. According to a 2021 study done by the NYU Stern Center for Sustainable Business, which looked at over 1,000 studies, "studies use different scores for different companies by different data providers."[2]
-From Wikipedia on ESG if that wasn't obvious from the citation numbers.

So yeah it's what I figured doing a cursory reading. You're going to have a bunch of different ESG values even for the same stock. The following is a theoretical example, Tesla could be rated a 7 ESG by Sony, but rated 5 by Nintendo, and 3 by Microsoft, all based off of how they rate and value each individual score. So does ESG have any meaning then? Possibly? Maybe find the right analyst or company that scores it.

Currently right now it appears companies offer ESG stocks and are marketing it towards environmentally conscious investors who don't have all the time in the world to look through everything. You ever got your stock statements from your retirement fund every quarter? It's a fucking book to read through. Nobody has time to go through all that data with a fine tooth comb. We just hope the people we believe in have our interests at heart rather than funding their own pockets sadly.

It does appear that SOME effort was put into ESGV but I don't know EXACTLY what effort was done. And obviously ESGV scoring is going to be different from the S&P 500 ESG index (which before today I didn't even know existed.)

https://www.thestreet.com/etffocus/market-intelligence/s-p-500-esg-index-tesla-walmart-facebook-wells-fargo
Reading into this you see Tesla added last year, one year ago nearly, along with walmart. But here's the funny part of the article

With the index getting market cap-weighted after the selected components are identified, this ends up looking a whole lot like a plain vanilla S&P 500 ETF.

https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/indices/esg/sp-500-esg-index/#data
I looked into it, and I see Exxon as #10.

I don't even. I wish there was a table explaining reasoning behind some of these acquisitions and boots from the S&P 500 ESG. But it makes no sense to me. I'm not educated enough in financial science to find it quickly beyond just googling each company. But from what I can see and with general knowledge this is pretty laughable.

The only reason why I bothered finding this much info on this, is because I'm an ESGV investor (a big one at least relative to my money), and I'm a bit hurt finding out about this. I figured just throw money at ESG stocks and you're being good and environmentally friendly, but it doesn't seem like that so far. I guess I needed to do more research.

You pretty clearly have a better handle on it than most of us, my dude.

https://youtu.be/rwNAS8b4QQk?t=202

Man she explained it best, I should've paid attention to what she said about multiple rating agencies and checking an agency that you understand and like, lol.

But really I HIGHLY recommend the two cents video for anyone with ANY confusion on ESG meaning, they explain it MUCH better than me.

Alright I think this is my final post on this, because I did a bit digging around on https://www.sustainalytics.com/esg-rating/

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/3/1/AABn_6AADPsr.jpg
You got a green background if you were in the top 10% in your industry for ESG and red for lower than 50% in ESG.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/3/2/AABn_6AADPss.jpg

I decided to see ESG scores of everything and lay them out. Then I went out of the way to check out the industry the stock was listed under and tried to find better scores AND how they have performed historically. Looking at it like this, there appears to be clear winners. Obviously we have some big name companies, but some of these lesser known companies also perform better historically AND have better ESGs, so why aren't they ever picked for mutual funds? It can't be stability, because looking at it historically they've gone up just like the other companies, and I DID check, I obviously didn't suggest that google get replaced by another software alternative like blizzard, because they're nothing alike. Same for amazon being replaced with a retailer like abercrombie and fitch because again they're nothing like amazon. Next best thing I can think of is walmart and their ESG is worse.

So what's my conclusion? It's possible to clean up an ESG portfolio, but you might have to tank some losses when you don't have staples like amazon, google and failing facebook in them. You can also dump the banks and pick up a local bank in...alabama? that performed well, if you want. All the banks failed in the 2008 crisis for...obvious reasons. You can get a better food retailer in Sysco, but costco is decent, and the technology hardware field is FULL of no names that have been around forever and serve as maintenance companies that have only gone up in price since their inception in the 90s. You don't have to rely on Apple.

The discrepancies I've noticed are Pharmaceuticals. I know it's a gamble, but those companies I've listed have existed from the 90s or the 2000s and have performed better than Pfizer and Abbvie. Not that Pfizer and Abbvie are HORRIBLE companies, but you CAN go more ethical than them and still make money. After all that's the point of the ESG.

The most surprising thing is that a company called Texas Land Corp has the highest ESG for the Oil Industry and paid out REAL well (of course oil companies are all about striking it rich so you had to get "lucky" with them, or maybe the environmental care they've taken allowed them to dig an ethical oil well, SOMEHOW.). But a refiner like Kinder Morgan being the best oil refiner in america in terms of ESG was surprising. However Kinder Morgan's stock prices are shaky and have been falling since 2015.

Looking into the automobile industry all we have for the highest ESG auto companies in America are Harleys, Winnebagos and Tesla. That's it. You gotta go international for more ethical companies. Harley is actually 4th in the industry, but their stock prices are fluctuating. Winnebago is like 39/82 so it's not much better than Tesla, but still performed OK, not as well as Tesla obviously.