Current Events > Did Disney forget how to make enigmatic villains

(+) Yeah! (+)

Long gone are the days of Hades, Ursula, Scar, and Jafar. I'm watching Encanto right now and it straight up doesn't even have an antagonist. Just a small stakes family drama movie. Did Disney forget how to make villains?

All their villain guys moved to Marvel Studios

Do you need all your stories to have a bad guy?

MICHALECOLE posted...

Do you need all your stories to have a bad guy?

No but the ones that do have one should have more memorable ones tbh

The first Frozen had a pretty good villain, that's somewhat recent

Well, ratatouille is my favorite Pixar movie, so Im gonna go ahead and disagree

Blue_Inigo posted...

Long gone are the days of Hades, Ursula, Scar, and Jafar. I'm watching Encanto right now and it straight up doesn't even have an antagonist. Just a small stakes family drama movie. Did Disney forget how to make villains?

i thought it was made clear that abuella was the villain.

Because Disney/Pixar are gradually shifting away from fantasy, for fun stories, towards real, sometimes for fun stories. I haven't watched a lot of the recent Disney/Pixar films, but I think Frozen was their last film with a semi-pointlessly evil villian (Duke of Weaselton or w/e).

Not to say that there's anything wrong or inferior with current Disney/Pixar films, but it would be nice to see a new villian who is just plain bad, and not emotionally damaged in some way.

Didn't read spoilers because I haven't see it yet, but some movies make tradition the bad guy so you can't really blame someone in particular.

Izrael posted...

Because Disney/Pixar are gradually shifting away from fantasy, for fun stories, towards real, sometimes for fun stories. I haven't watched a lot of the recent Disney/Pixar films, but I think Frozen was their last film with a semi-pointlessly evil villian (Duke of Weaselton or w/e).

Not to say that there's anything wrong or inferior with current Disney/Pixar films, but it would be nice to see a new villian who is just plain bad, and not emotionally damaged in some way.

I generally hate villains who are evil with no motivation other than be evil

MICHALECOLE posted...

I generally hate villains who are evil with no motivation other than be evil

Eh, different strokes for different folks.

Personally, I would say characters like Yzema, Madame Medusa, and, Zira felt a lot more fun than any recent Disney/Pixar characters, as shallow as a lot of them were.

Frollo was a little too evil though.

I find that Disney (for the former and latter) and Pixar (esp for the latter) have either gone for villains that are surprise/not-expected until late in the movie or straight-up don't have a villain at all for the last few years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1_zJGvh4bA

I kinda like their shift to more "complex" stories, where the plots might be about characters worrying about not having a place in their families, not being able to properly uphold traditions, or question whether they even want to, and so on.

it makes the situations, no matter how fantastical they might be, feel more relatable.

my favorite Disney movie (A Goofy Movie) didn't even have an antagonist, iirc, just two characters who had competing desires.

MICHALECOLE posted...

Well, ratatouille is my favorite Pixar movie, so Im gonna go ahead and disagree

That was 20 years ago, man.

Notice that all the villains you posted are from a specific era of Disney films? That's because the writers and directors at the time were inspired by those 1-dimensional villains from media from their childhood and past. The newer Disney films also had a era of "surprise villains" and now most of the newer films are about generational trauma, something that is very prevalent among Millennials, especially among 2nd-3rd generation immigrants. Sometimes a movie doesn't have to have a villain, a movie that absolutely didn't need one was Frozen and that started the crappy era of "surprise villains". Honestly, Hans felt like a totally different character from the first and second third of the film to the "reveal". Sometimes a movie doesn't need to be "big" or "epic", sometimes it can be a smaller scale movie about everyday life. That's honestly why Encanto, to me, was a breath of fresh air in comparison to a lot of the Disney films from the past. We'll eventually see a villain from the first Disney renaissance era again, I did enjoy Dr. Facilier (his villain song is great), but it just has to make sense to the story they want to tell. If Encanto had a surprise villain or a 1-dimensional villain, it would've defeated the whole purpose of the movie.

The villains are my favorite aspect of classic Disney (and most media really), so that's probably a big reason I don't enjoy them as much as the older movies.

I love the classic villains, but I also like the modern, relatable stories. Encanto had a really good message (you arent defined by your talents or job), or Onward (sometimes you dont need closure, and should focus on what is in front of you)

Turning Red was also good, IMO.

TheChariot4 posted...

That was 20 years ago, man.

Still my favorite..

g0ldie posted...

Turning Red was also good, IMO.

Turning red was amazing

Prestoff posted...

Honestly, Hans felt like a totally different character from the first and second third of the film to the "reveal".

Well, yeah, obviously. that's intentional on his part. that's the whole point of him being deceptive. he acts nice until the truth comes out

My brother's girlfriend actually predicted his motives after Hans told Anna he's the youngest of like 10 brothers.

Scar was an awesome villain. Great design and voice acting

Wetterdew posted...

Well, yeah, obviously. that's intentional on his part. that's the whole point of him being deceptive. he acts nice until the truth comes out

My brother's girlfriend actually predicted his motives after Hans told Anna he's the youngest of like 10 brothers.

It was still poorly done. I get that it was the message of the movie, Anna being too trusting and Elsa not being trusting enough, but it felt like two completely different characters. @DarkRoast pointed it out in a different topic months back, but this scene when he smiles feels really out of place for his eventual reveal:
https://youtu.be/Z5wIzJr33Ko?t=87
And then the reveal happens and all of a sudden he's a 1-dimensional villain from the Disney renaissance, without the charm that those Disney villains had.

The villain in Tangled was a great "classic style" disney villain.

Prestoff posted...

this scene when he smiles feels really out of place for his eventual reveal

the scene and his reaction were genuine, he wasn't planning to kill her at that part of the movie, he was just trying to set himself up with her. I think he would have been fine with marrying into status and that he was genuinely pleased to have found her.

it's only when elsa's powers disrupt the kingdom that he realizes the marriage won't work and he'll need to seize control.

FurryPhilosifer posted...

The villain in Tangled was a great "classic style" disney villain.

That was 12 years and ten films ago btw

Eh, go back from Encanto to Coco and that had some interesting developments

I loved Encanto, but yeah there is something special about the classic Disney villains that their newer movies are missing. Dr Facilier was the last truly classic villain, and even he was underutilized in his movie.

I feel like it's an influence from Pixar and Ghibli. They're shifting more toward moral ambiguity, and plots where the "antagonist" is the situation the characters find themselves in.

Blue_Inigo posted...

Hades, Ursula, Scar, and Jafar.

There's nothing enigmatic about literally any of these characters. You don't even know what you're trying to complain about.

The real enigmatic villains were the friends we made along the way.

Doe posted...

There's nothing enigmatic about literally any of these characters. You don't even know what you're trying to complain about.

Definitely a case of TC misusing a word but we all know what they meant anyway

I didnt mind Encanto having a lack of real villain rather have that than the half assed twist villain like other Disney movies has had, I liked it better than Raya

MICHALECOLE posted...

I generally hate villains who are evil with no motivation other than be evil

I don't. Some people are just fucked up.

MICHALECOLE posted...

I generally hate villains who are evil with no motivation other than be evil

i guess if you look at them, they usually have reasons for being evil. like in sleeping beauty, the reason she's so evil is out of vain envy of sleeping beauty's beauty. once the mirror told her she isn't the best-looking woman any more, her vanity drove her to do all that crap.

frollo is bitter because he loves esmeralda but can't have her

scar is power hungry and bitter that the crown was gonna go to the first son and not him.

cruella is...well maybe she's just innately evil LOL.

ursula is bitter at king trident bc he apparently banished her.

Most of the ones listed here were shitty people who ended up in a situation they didn't like, so they took it out on the protagonists.

TheGoldenEel posted...

That was 12 years and ten films ago btw

Yes but they're definitely more in the modern era of Disney than they are with films like Aladdin or lion king.