Board 8 > Fire Emblem: Awakening Mafia - Topic 4 - Duty (Ablaze)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Alive (13):
Ben
changmas
ChichiriMuyo
Chris (DoomTheGyarados)
Corrik
HanOfTheNekos
HtaeD
MZero
red13n
ScareChan
Sheep007
TidusOfTheX
Ultimaterializer

Dead (2):
IfGodCouldDie - Owain, Vanilla TOWN (LD1)
Shonen_Bat - Frederick TOWN Mason Bodyguard (KN1)

It is now Day 2. With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends at 12:00 AM GMT Monday/07:00 PM EST Sunday.

Is this the topic now

I guess it could be

Also using the Mafia tag now I noticed

Merging my final posts

Anyway a quick scan of these last 5 pages makes me like Muyo and Mzero somewhat more, the former echoing my sentiments about Changmas and the latter seems to have come out of his shell (so to speak)

Inversely Scare doesnt impress me at all, and Corrik also has failed to do anything that makes me want to unvote him.

Okay I like Ulti's effort values, despite the fact that he devoted some of those on me.
Chris seems to be a bit more 'going with the flow' now, but I did feel his scumhunting spirit earlier when he attacked Changmas, so I am leaning townish there.
Han I cannot read much at all and he seems a bit narrow focused on certain players, but he hasn't really done anything bad either.

If I were to name a scumteam it would have at least Corrik, Scare and Changmas
Its just that I am not sure on a 4th yet since I have something to like about everyone left.

(even if Red is seemingly being stubborn)

Uh wrong topic, Scare

##unvote

##vote: Red

It's been long enough red let's hear what you have

Scare what are your thoughts?

How the hell did I post in topic 1

I'm having a shit game

I've moved on from pestering Chris for know

The team make ups put me in a hole, and I'm slowly leaning to him being town from his game so far

I don't Iike the dance with red though so I'm cutting in so we can move o

Okay but do you think red can be scum?
And beyond that?

I am not sure red has been honest, but don't think it is scum indicative. I'll leave it at that.

Fastbreak posted...

The team make ups put me in a hole, and I'm slowly leaning to him being town from his game so far

Based on what? People keep biting on this theory and it just doesn't make sense. I assume its people getting caught in a bad circle.

Fastbreak posted...

It's been long enough red let's hear what you have

Anyone with half a brain knows what I have at this point.

Bold of you to assume I have a brain at the moment

And if it's obvious then why the hesitation to say?

Catching up but I really wanna say that MZero going after Chang last topic is the most convincingly Town thing I have read all game not from Tidus or Bat and I would like to please not lynch him.

changmas posted...

Well I do have a question I've been wanting to ask, but I've been spending all my time defending myself.

I would like to understand why Sheep has been considered solidly town by pretty much everyone from the very beginning. It's now confirmed that he's now been given a power by Tidus. If a scum Sheep used that power to report false information, that's probably a death knell for town.

To be very clear, I'm not suggesting whatsoever that I would want to vote for Sheep today. It would be completely asinine to do that before he's even used the power. But I have been wondering how everyone is so certain he's town from the get-go, and what Tidus' reasoning was for choosing Sheep to gain the power over one of the masons.

Perhaps this sort of discussion would arise organically after he reports back any information from the newly gained power?

Nobody ever actually responded to the question here except saying that Chang was avoiding having any scum reads. Or Tidus saying he gave me a scan because everyone thought I was town, which doesn't really answer the question.

Just kinda seeing the lack of response to it has been making me question: who the hell is scummates with Chang, if he is scum? I feel like a scummate probably engages with this post at the time if they see it, because it's a very simple way of getting Chang to engage with the game and possibly look better or appear to develop reads more naturally. Like, if I am scum with this player and they say this, I absolutely leap on it to push their engagement. Now, I'm not saying I'm an amazing scum player, but that feels like the natural thing to do. With this in mind along with the rest of the game, let's go through the potential scummates for Chang.

It's not MZero, Tidus, Ben or myself. I think the latter three should be pretty obvious and I've explained my MZero town read multiple times today, if anyone disagrees with me, feel free to argue to the contrary, but I am straight up putting MZero in practically confirmed along with Tidus.

It's probably not Chris, because this seems like a pretty forceful bus for him if so. Possible, but unlikely.

Red, Han or Scare? Maybe. But Scare and Han were around at the time of this post. Obviously there was more focus on Chris and Chris is the priority if one of them is scum and he's town, but it wouldn't take much effort at all to explain a read on me to help a struggling scummate out. Red, I'm not sure on, but we'll get back to that.

Death or Ulti? The other vanilla claims day 1? There's likely at least one scum in these three+Chang (maybe less likely than before, given one mason has flipped with power?) but I'm not sold on there being two. The Ulti/Chang issue D1 felt a little strange, so I'm gonna put a pin in that and the Corrik one. I think Death is a good candidate for Chang's most likely scummate - I'm still holding that scum read on him, and I want to do an ISO of Death posts related to Chang in a little while, but let's pencil him in as one of the scummates.

This leaves Muyo, who has completely flown under the radar for me. Frankly, I don't like that at all considering I at least remember notable stuff from other players. Those who might normally slip away and don't draw my attention have done so a bit more this game (although admittedly that's basically just the other new players, MZero and Red, who I'm still not convinced by). But I think if Chang is scum, there's a solid chance it's with some composition of Chang/Death/Muyo. Signs kinda point towards Corrik, here? I feel like if Chris is town and Ulti is not, Chris picks up on the Ulti/Chang link. The main other alternative for me is probably Red.

Which I'm not exactly sold on with this lineup, to say the least. Since, again, I know he isn't a mafia god, but I find it hard to believe Town Chris sees or forces the pressure on three scum players day one, then swings around and lynches IGCD. I think that's the point at which you call in whatever law it is and assume that if Chris is performing actions which are worse for town overall than scum, he is likely scum.

So, I'm going to humour the Chang voters for now and assume there's a good chance Chang is scum (which, to be clear, I am increasingly unconvinced by). Let's call this team Chang/Muyo/Death/Corrik. What are your thoughts on this team composition?

Sheep007 posted...

Nobody ever actually responded to the question here except saying that Chang was avoiding having any scum reads. Or Tidus saying he gave me a scan because everyone thought I was town, which doesn't really answer the question.

Just kinda seeing the lack of response to it has been making me question: who the hell is scummates with Chang, if he is scum? I feel like a scummate probably engages with this post at the time if they see it, because it's a very simple way of getting Chang to engage with the game and possibly look better or appear to develop reads more naturally. Like, if I am scum with this player and they say this, I absolutely leap on it to push their engagement. Now, I'm not saying I'm an amazing scum player, but that feels like the natural thing to do. With this in mind along with the rest of the game, let's go through the potential scummates for Chang.

It's not MZero, Tidus, Ben or myself. I think the latter three should be pretty obvious and I've explained my MZero town read multiple times today, if anyone disagrees with me, feel free to argue to the contrary, but I am straight up putting MZero in practically confirmed along with Tidus.

It's probably not Chris, because this seems like a pretty forceful bus for him if so. Possible, but unlikely.

Red, Han or Scare? Maybe. But Scare and Han were around at the time of this post. Obviously there was more focus on Chris and Chris is the priority if one of them is scum and he's town, but it wouldn't take much effort at all to explain a read on me to help a struggling scummate out. Red, I'm not sure on, but we'll get back to that.

Death or Ulti? The other vanilla claims day 1? There's likely at least one scum in these three+Chang (maybe less likely than before, given one mason has flipped with power?) but I'm not sold on there being two. The Ulti/Chang issue D1 felt a little strange, so I'm gonna put a pin in that and the Corrik one. I think Death is a good candidate for Chang's most likely scummate - I'm still holding that scum read on him, and I want to do an ISO of Death posts related to Chang in a little while, but let's pencil him in as one of the scummates.

This leaves Muyo, who has completely flown under the radar for me. Frankly, I don't like that at all considering I at least remember notable stuff from other players. Those who might normally slip away and don't draw my attention have done so a bit more this game (although admittedly that's basically just the other new players, MZero and Red, who I'm still not convinced by). But I think if Chang is scum, there's a solid chance it's with some composition of Chang/Death/Muyo. Signs kinda point towards Corrik, here? I feel like if Chris is town and Ulti is not, Chris picks up on the Ulti/Chang link. The main other alternative for me is probably Red.

Which I'm not exactly sold on with this lineup, to say the least. Since, again, I know he isn't a mafia god, but I find it hard to believe Town Chris sees or forces the pressure on three scum players day one, then swings around and lynches IGCD. I think that's the point at which you call in whatever law it is and assume that if Chris is performing actions which are worse for town overall than scum, he is likely scum.

So, I'm going to humour the Chang voters for now and assume there's a good chance Chang is scum (which, to be clear, I am increasingly unconvinced by). Let's call this team Chang/Muyo/Death/Corrik. What are your thoughts on this team composition?

I don't like it

Cheers, Corrik.

Fastbreak posted...

Bold of you to assume I have a brain at the moment

And if it's obvious then why the hesitation to say?

I find it more interesting to see peoples reactions.

Also I hate that people keep coming back around to Chang being scum.

If Chang is scum you think he sticks his head out to protect town Ulti? When town is likely going to do scums bidding on their own at that point? I just don't get it.

If you think Chang is scum you should pretty much be assuming Ulti is scum first but somehow this drops off everyones list.

Sheep007 posted...

So, I'm going to humour the Chang voters for now and assume there's a good chance Chang is scum (which, to be clear, I am increasingly unconvinced by). Let's call this team Chang/Muyo/Death/Corrik. What are your thoughts on this team composition?

agreed on changmas/Muyo. Death I've expressed my thoughts on, and Corrik is honestly almost impossible to read because he acts nearly identical as either alignment. A scan or PoE is your best bet. If I had to guess the other two scum are Scare and Han.

As for why no one responded to changmas, maybe they were distancing, or they've just left him out to dry

red13n posted...

Also I hate that people keep coming back around to Chang being scum.

If Chang is scum you think he sticks his head out to protect town Ulti? When town is likely going to do scums bidding on their own at that point? I just don't get it.

If you think Chang is scum you should pretty much be assuming Ulti is scum first but somehow this drops off everyones list.

Are you talking about the vote on IGCD or his defence of Ulti when you're talking about sticking his head out, here?

MZero posted...

agreed on changmas/Muyo. Death I've expressed my thoughts on, and Corrik is honestly almost impossible to read because he acts nearly identical as either alignment. A scan or PoE is your best bet. If I had to guess the other two scum are Scare and Han.

As for why no one responded to changmas, maybe they were distancing, or they've just left him out to dry

Possibly, but he's not exactly dead in the water yet. And I don't think answering a question like that would exactly have been risky behaviour.

What's the rationale behind Scare and Han, or is this PoE itself?

red13n posted...

Also I hate that people keep coming back around to Chang being scum.

If Chang is scum you think he sticks his head out to protect town Ulti? When town is likely going to do scums bidding on their own at that point? I just don't get it.

If you think Chang is scum you should pretty much be assuming Ulti is scum first but somehow this drops off everyones list.

changmas didn't switch from Ulti to IGCD, he was on neither. Being on neither looks bad if they're both town. And given the choice scum would want the unclaimed killed over the claimed vanilla, so he would have wanted to get in on IGCD rather than Ulti

Sheep007 posted...

Possibly, but he's not exactly dead in the water yet. And I don't think answering a question like that would exactly have been risky behaviour.

What's the rationale behind Scare and Han, or is this PoE itself?

Scare has been skating by on getting some early town cred and has since done almost nothing. Han has been noncommittal. Has he even voted this entire game? I have high expectations of town Han but he hasn't really pushed anything, just bounced around. Like, he's called some people scum and stuff but hasn't really put any weight behind anything

I just cant really see Chang and Ulti as scum together given the way Ulti acted day1

MZero posted...

changmas didn't switch from Ulti to IGCD, he was on neither. Being on neither looks bad if they're both town. And given the choice scum would want the unclaimed killed over the claimed vanilla, so he would have wanted to get in on IGCD rather than Ulti

Yes and no. IGCD is an ineffective player. Then again, so is Ulti. Ulti also would have had no problem taking a power role claim to the grave also as a fuck you to town in the case of his mislynch. Ulti can be predictable, unless called out on it. Part of the reason I called out Ultis usual power claiming late as scum to try and save himself from being correctly lynched is because a lot of Ulti also stems in the fact that he likes to prove people wrong. By stating he will do something he normally would do prior, he then ironically predictably doesn't do it purposely just to prove the person wrong and "show he isn't predictable" I was trying to nip it in the bud before it happened.

So ulti to a person who doesn't understand his personality can find him confusing or puzzling.

But, if Ulti were town and a seasoned person who knows Ultis personality is scum (say me, Chris, Han, red), Ulti as a mislynch is probably more attractive to them than an unclaimed ineffective IGCD. You can expect IGCD to make bad votes, probably use his power badly, and be a nonfactor. Ironically, IGCD's play usually predictably falls in line with fixating on people who call this out about him a lot. Usually me. Regardless of the person he is fixating on's alignment, sometimes even after their alignment is even confirmed.

It usually is actually an easy way to tell if IGCD is town or not and let's him become easy to read when active.

MZero posted...

Scare has been skating by on getting some early town cred and has since done almost nothing. Han has been noncommittal. Has he even voted this entire game? I have high expectations of town Han but he hasn't really pushed anything, just bounced around. Like, he's called some people scum and stuff but hasn't really put any weight behind anything

I kinda agree on the Scare front and I am trusting Ben's read on him a bit more than I possibly should, but I'll say that I felt the same way about him at the start after very few posts. I don't think I'm concerned about him for today. Han's not voted a ton, but I think his interactions with Chris have generally come out with him looking better. I would like to see him actually interact a bit more with the rest of the game outside of Chris, though. I think the biggest mark against him is the complete lack of a vote yesterday, really.

htaeD posted...

I just cant really see Chang and Ulti as scum together given the way Ulti acted day1

Why?

I hate to agree with ScumDeath, but I think that whole coaching fiasco is a really, really strange interaction if it's between scum. And I also think that, if scum, they're a lot more self-aware about the way the interaction ended so oddly with Chang's town read on Ulti.

Also, re:Scare, I feel like he's definitely been less active and strong than usual, but I also think he's been self-aware about that and tryint in a way that feels natural and honestly I don't think scum Scare manages to do that. This kinda just feels like town Scare having a bad game rather than Scare being much weaker as scum, if that makes sense. I'm not a hundred percent sure on that though, and I don't know if I am underestimating how good town Scare would be after not playing with him for a few years.

Corrik7 posted...

Why?

Well Sheep covered it a little, but I dont think scumUlti would choose bussing a teammate as his first major action of the day.
Plus I kinda like him anyway, so my view is colored already.

htaeD posted...

Well Sheep covered it a little, but I dont think scumUlti would choose bussing a teammate as his first major action of the day.
Plus I kinda like him anyway, so my view is colored already.

Ulti has to know his death is numbered today.

UltimaterializerX posted...

All I got is Scum Chris would save me because he wouldn't want to risk IGCD flipping town power and making himself look bad. Sorry I can't think of anything better my dude =/

This scenario is silly.

So here's the thing, Ulti. It is inarguably in Scum's interest, if you/IGCD are Town/Town, to save you to kill IGCD. Two easy points to follow:

1. IGCD could have flipped power. Even if he wasn't active, this day was on the weekend, so it's more likely he would have posted today and could have gotten a possible night action in.
2. You self-admitted that you are an easy lynch. Why, if you are an easy lynch, would Scum waste lynching you on Day 1? Scum needs a certain number of mislynches to win the game - it makes more sense for them to save the players that are easier to get mislynched later.

Inarguable.

Whether you couldn't come to this conclusion because you're not in a Town perspective right now, or that you are just wholly unimaginative, I do not know. I'll review to see if anything has come of this thought exercise.

I have no idea if I even have a vote down at this point, but after I shower I'll read up, then probably re-read. I have Town leans on a large portion of people in this game, and they seem to line up on the "Chris is Town" side, so it will take reconsideration. Though this passive push to call me Scum by Chris/Ulti/MZero is noticed, and I will point out that in my Mafia career, I'm basically only ever called suspect by Scum, so. Point in favor for that still being Scum.
##Unvote:

Wetting the tea now. I'll be here for about an hour full.

Haven't read back yet, but in skimming, I saw someone say stuff about me not having a vote down at end of day and I can speak on that quickly.

If you've been following this day at all, you would know that is almost assuredly a null-tell. I had been throwing fuel on Ulti earlier in the day, and had stated that I had IGCD under a Towntell. You could assume my vote would be on Ulti, but as I have also stated today, I can't say for sure I wouldn't have been hoodwinked by Chris into voting against inactivity. Regardless of the case, if I chose to intentional not have a vote down, it would only be suspect in the scenario that Ulti is Scum and I had to lay low to hold my vote to save Ulti and hope the IGCD lynch went through.

Y'all shouldn't be asking "why didn't you have a vote down" as anybody who would look would know that I wasn't posting at all in the last couple of hours of day. You should be asking "why does that matter and what does it imply".

ChichiriMuyo posted...

My read on Ulti is that he's being genuine. If he's town his reaction to being accused makes total sense to me. He gets a bit dramatic at times and when he hasn't done anything wrong he tends to be like "the whole world is out to get me." If he's scum I'd expect him to play it up even more, make an act of it rather than a regular reaction.

This strikes me as a ScumChichiri/TownUlti post.

PunishedBen posted...

But yeah I was pretty much the only one not thinking Death was town at the end of the day

I'd absolutely kill him today too

Literally me. Only reason nothing came of that was because he claimed and then, who, probably Chris, declared he was Town and everyone moved on?

going through sheepwall now

MZero posted...

agreed on changmas/Muyo. ..., and Corrik is honestly almost impossible to read because he acts nearly identical as either alignment... If I had to guess the other two scum are Scare and Han.

MZero defenders really letting this fake logic fly? "I cannot get a read on Corrik, ergo, I would guess he's not Scum".

MZero posted...

Scare has been skating by on getting some early town cred and has since done almost nothing. Han has been noncommittal. Has he even voted this entire game? I have high expectations of town Han but he hasn't really pushed anything, just bounced around. Like, he's called some people scum and stuff but hasn't really put any weight behind anything

And this is you telling me you haven't read the game without telling us you haven't read the game.

I feel Sheep is strongly Town and would like to support reads from others that I Townread, but MZero, it really feels like you're just making things up at this point, which just make you appear to be trying to false throw on fuel to a Han mislynch.

I have voted. You can go read day 1 and learn that for yourself. Additionally, I've been the spearpoint on Task Force Chris. Unless you're trying to suggest it's strange that I haven't gotten Chris lynched (which, given what you've said, makes sense for you to believe), what do you expect me to do on him? I've spent most of today building a case around Chris being Scum. Yes, I haven't put in near the effort of games I have in the past, but frankly I expected less activity from this game and have been choosing to do other things than reread because the game makes me mad and I don't want to spend this much time and effort on being mad.

MZero, I have voted more than you, I have Scumhunted more than you, I have posted more than you. Get real.

Anyway, I've got like 15m so I won't be able to reread or iso anything right now. My thoughts at the moment align with the following trains of logic:

Scum is weak
Scumteam is weak and hiding. Death, whom I pointed at early day 1, has basically zero defenders at this point, even to the point where his Day 1 defenders (look into this if he flips) aren't defending him. We all seem to be good with lynching Death. Is it that easy?
In this scenario, his fellow Scum are likely weakly bussing or non-factors themselves, such as Chichiri. And probably Chang as well?

Scum is strong
Chris as Scum.
UltimaterializerX posted...

That said, someone in the rule 1 group (Chris, Red, Scare, Han) has to be at this point.

Let's play a game - what do Red, Scare, and Han in this group have in common?

We have all pushed on Chris being Scum.

Scare seems less enthused about it, but it's an interesting note that Ulti's proclaimed list of "these players are good so let them live a bit" is composed of Chris and 3 people who have voted (or rallied against, in my case) against him.

In this scenario, Ulti stands a good chance at being Scum, but we've got a slew of other people that Chris has declared as Town throughout the days that I haven't agreed with. Sorry, don't have names atm - bad with details.

Ego does play a part in this, sure, and the possibility of being wrong makes this easier to let go of for today and check one other avenue (which probably gets me killed tonight if this is correct). But the simple fact is that I've felt Chris has more gone through motions than been genuine. That in itself doesn't prove he's Scum. But it hasn't proved him Town for sure.

Scum are buddying me
People like Red and Corrik haven't quite struck me as Town at all, but there's this world where people that I feel good about ONLY because they are agreeing with my points about Chris have messed up my Scumdar.

Quick list of Town thoughts:

Scare and Sheep have just felt Town. Scare hasn't done shit, much like Glonth(don't ask, it's an inside joke), but when he has posted, many of us are feeling that he's genuine.

Ben is confirmed Town, and I hate when he says that he'll just follow another player, especially when Ben has specific reads that are counter to Chris's, and he would do well to remember that.

Tidus is so excited about his role, everyone is treating him like a puppy and there doesn't really need to be much said. Somebody being suspicious of him reads more like Scum because it's an easy faking of real activity to pick at a newer player that you never have to seriously push than elsewise.

In conclusion:
Death's lynch is so mind-numbingly boring but it seems to be the track on which most people are of the same mind.

As distrusting as I am of Chris, and how logically a lot of pieces make sense for him to be Scum, it is still advantageous to look in other directions. If I have the time, I'd hunt to find who I think is Scum that it seems only Chris is championing, but that may not come.

The only reason for Red to not have said he has been Roleblocked at this point is if he is Scum and Scum RB'd someone else, and Red has been holding back so he doesn't get countered.

I agree with the majority of the Hanwall and would like to add two things.

Chris was, as someone so kindly put it, "soft defending" Death through the first half of D1 while he was pressured. I think Death very neatly fits in all of these boxes for your potential scum teams, and is also probably scum if it's the case that Chris is just kinda correct.

Also, MZero is very, very likely town. He's well above Scare and probably just below Tidus level for me (who is as good as guaranteed not mafia). I understand your issues with MZero's play but he's good for the time being and we are absolutely not lynching him today. I just think his reads are kinda bad.

On the plus side, if he is scum, let's be real and say that he is not exactly gonna be leading the charge on a town Han or Scare if he's trying to.

I am also just gonna stick my nonexistent vote here because how the hell has this dude also escaped so much attention today?

##Unvote
##Vote: ChichiriMuyo

You know I am noticing a distinct lack of death votes for all the people saying they want to lynch me

##Unvote
##Vote: Death

Good han posts. I feel better about him after those posts.

Did Chris ever say his flavor?

I'm fairly sure he claimed Cynthia

Somebody with a lance, that is all I need to know

Well I was hoping to see reactions from the guys I didnt trust first, but I guess I asked for it.