Current Events > Thing is, the fire starter zodiac theory was always kind of reaching.

(+) Yeah! (+)

A hedgehog is not a rat, and a fox is not a dog.

Agree

Spoiler alert

Charmander was the snake and the new one is the dragon

Oh, fire starter as in a fire type starter pokemon, not as in someone who starts a fire.

Now I get it.

DeadBankerDream posted...

Oh, fire starter as in a fire type starter pokemon, not as in someone who starts a fire.

Now I get it.

Lol

i thought this was gonna be about a fan theory of a connection between the horror/thriller movies Firestarter and Zodiac

Cyndaquil is the "fire mouse" Pokemon, and foxes & dogs are both literally types of canines.

So it's very much close enough to work.

Rharyx211 posted...

Cyndaquil is the "fire mouse" Pokemon

That's the English translation.

If you put the original Japanese category into DeepL, you get "Japanese fire belly newt (Cynops pyrrhogaster)"

In Japanese, Cyndaquil is the "/hinezumi" Pokemon, with "hi/" meaning "fire," and "nezumi/" meaning "mouse," "rat," or "rodent" at large.

So even in Japanese, it's the "fire mouse" Pokemon.

Rharyx211 posted...

In Japanese, Cyndaquil is the "/hinezumi" Pokemon, with "hi/" meaning "fire," and "nezumi/" meaning "mouse," "rat," or "rodent" at large.

So even in Japanese, it's the "fire mouse" Pokemon.

I prefer Japanese fire belly newt (Cynops pyrrhogaster).

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What?? Were there theories for the grass and water starters as well?

Cyndaquil is an echidna, which is not a rodent. And while foxes are technically canids, they're hardly close enough to dogs to be considered a substitute for the zodiac. They even have their own kanji distinct from the one for dog.

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Could end up being a sabertooth tiger

Wolves are the same genus as dogs. They're far more closely related than porcupines and rats.

Also, did they use any foxes to represent the year of the dog?

Rharyx211 posted...

foxes & dogs are both literally types of canines

wrong

foxes are vulpines not canines

Did they use any foxes to represent the year of the dog?

SerperiorThanU posted...

The Chinese word for tiger and dragon are much more specific than mouse and dog. I do think the croc probably breaks the pattern though.

And Chinese etymology considers the porcupine a pig, not a mouse.

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Canines, also called canids, include foxes, wolves, jackals, and other members of the dog family (Canidae).

?? I mean that's what the experts say

Also yes Cyndaquil is classified as a Fire Mouse pokemon. Saying he's a porcupine is actually a fan speculation. In fact I'm pretty sure porcupines can't retract their whole spikes like Cyndaquil can. We don't even know if those fires can truly be classified as spikes

The Zodiac thing was way more than just a theory. It's just bizarre to axe it after 8 seasons and several decades of following it

No, it shows that you're changing your argument on a case-by-case basis to suit your theory.

Gladius_ posted...

There's also an argument to be made that despite the few stripes Incineroar has the face mostly resembles a cat and he's more of a bipedal muscular cat than an actual tiger but I digress.

Also worth noting that the cat is distinct from the tiger and is explicitly NOT part of the zodiac as per the original myth.

DeadBankerDream posted...

Oh, fire starter as in a fire type starter pokemon, not as in someone who starts a fire.

Now I get it.

This is also what I was thinking and was very confused at first lol.

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When you've got 8 examples with only two not being exact but still being closely related that's a pretty noticeable pattern that people just look like contrarians trying to nitpick it.

You can't say the patterns don't exist when we've constantly been posting proof. Cyndaquil is a Fire Mouse Pokemon as it says in the freaking game. Nobody made that up. Hard to deny Charizard/Torchic/Chimchar/Tepig/Incineroar/Scorbunny. These are very unambiguously associated with the corresponding Zodiac animals. So what's left? Cyndaquil and Fennekin? That's what all the discussions are and you'd have to be willingly ignorant of the official Pokedex entry and actual animal classification nuances to argue this wasn't a pattern.

You're right that there is such a thing as seeing patterns where there isn't, but that has to apply to situations where there is a stretch. Where's the stretch here? That dogs have a lot of classifications? That we have to accept the fan theory and that Cyndaquil isn't a Fire Mouse? I don't get it, these are stretches in the opposite direction, that you want to deny that there's a pattern

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6 exact species and 2 closely related ones. Apophenia does exist. So do contrarians who just want to nitpick everything even when there is a noticeable pattern.

TBH, I do think there's a solid chance it'll become snakelike by its final evolution. It might be too similar to Krookodile or Feraligatr otherwise.

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That's another fallacy. There was a pattern for over 2 decades, which far breaks the standard time threshold of a pattern, meaning the obvious answer is that there was a zodiac pattern, and a team that's different from the one following it was the one that decided the pattern should no longer be followed. That's what the fans are angry about. The zodiac was a cool pattern that up til even 1-2 years ago was followed that was dumped by a less than enthusiastic modern Pokemon team.

Pokemon did the same thing with Megas and various household moves, even Pokemon themselves, leaving them out on various future installments. There is a pattern here, if you will, of modern Pokemon team unwilling to continue long traditions out of an unwillingness to spend more money and time on development

imagine having to come up with an original set of monsters in one of the most popular franchises of all time, if not the most popular

and then suddenly there are these "rules" that some team wrote decades ago that doesn't even matter or help sell games or help balance the game in any way whatsoever. and then you have to stick to these arbitrary rules because some fans online will complain that it doesn't fit some unimportant connection

this is assuming the rules were ever even written. imagine basing all of your decisions on the rules if they were barely even planned or not written at all and only live in the minds of the fans