Current Events > Why aren't smokers and drug addicts disqualified from free healthcare?

(+) Yeah! (+)

NightingaleMD posted...

The truth is hard. It's really hard. It's so hard to swallow that most of the country creates their own narrative, effectively why we have two countries now in one country (specifically, the patients that tell me to my face, as they're dying, that covid is a hoax).

Free healthcare is a catch-all term for riling up the dem base, but it's literally impossible. My med director just met with our local congressperson who flatly said no legislation in that regard will even realistically be considered for the next term.

Private insurance essential runs the country via owning congress and senate. If you've been paying any attention, they've been posting record profits during the pandemic (!), decreasing physician pay and increasing premiums.

And it's all gonna get worse. Like most people out of the loop, you're welcome to keep your head in the sand, but I can only speak the truth. This world has little sympathy for people that can't get their shit together, and the resources for them are scarce and are likely to stay that way in the short/near future.

ie, if you can't bootstrap, you're gonna be on the bottom of the boots

Did an A.I. write this?

NightingaleMD posted...

The truth is hard. It's really hard. It's so hard to swallow that most of the country creates their own narrative, effectively why we have two countries now in one country (specifically, the patients that tell me to my face, as they're dying, that covid is a hoax).

Free healthcare is a catch-all term for riling up the dem base, but it's literally impossible. My med director just met with our local congressperson who flatly said no legislation in that regard will even realistically be considered for the next term.

Private insurance essential runs the country via owning congress and senate. If you've been paying any attention, they've been posting record profits during the pandemic (!), decreasing physician pay and increasing premiums.

And it's all gonna get worse. Like most people out of the loop, you're welcome to keep your head in the sand, but I can only speak the truth. This world has little sympathy for people that can't get their shit together, and the resources for them are scarce and are likely to stay that way in the short/near future.

ie, if you can't bootstrap, you're gonna be on the bottom of the boots

Mr rogers would hate you

Xavier_On_High posted...

Did an A.I. write this?

I think that poster is only capable of getting mad at people when they suggest that maybe we should make things better than they currently are

I doubt that, I don't think he hated anyone.

He would feel incredibly sorry for me, though. Burnout in our profession is real, and really bad.

https://www.tiktok.com/@drglaucomflecken/video/7049821867548609838?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1&lang=en

This guy gets it. He's an optho with a lot of EM friends.

While we're on the subject, here's my favorite vid of his:

https://www.tiktok.com/@drglaucomflecken/video/7033692450061438255?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1&lang=en

nightingaleMD is right. By trying to change the system to fast, it will just insure republicans are in power for generations to come. Small reforms over time is best in today's political climate.

DeathDeathSong posted...

person gets rushed to the er cause of a car accident but theyre a smoker so tc thinks they should just die, am i understanding this correctly?

no, because the car accident has nothing to do with smoking

and even then I wouldnt want them to be forced to die, I just dont see any reason to prolong their life if they refuse to kick their habits

kelemvor posted...

nightingaleMD is right. By trying to change the system to fast, it will just insure republicans are in power for generations to come. Small reforms over time is best in today's political climate.

No he isn't. When something is broken, you don't get lazy about it and say there's nothing that can be done. You fucking get off your ass and fix it.

EmbraceOfDeath posted...

No he isn't. When something is broken, you don't get lazy about it and say there's nothing that can be done. You fucking get off your ass and fix it.

lol

classic internet post

Between the two of us, only one of us has worked in health policy

I'm not being a dick, I'm just saying snapping fingers to "fix it" is not realistic. It's how I thought things worked when I was in middle school.

I mean, just to take your bait, please explain how I "get off my ass" and fix the entirety of healthcare

EDIT: and I'm serious. I post anonymously on the internet without ever leaving a trace of my real identity because I work both politically as well as medically. Give me one good fucking idea

if it floats I'll run with it

Otherwise I'm getting tired of rolling my eyes at all these keyboard warriors saying "FREE HEALTHCARE!" and other memespeak. Well, you know, there are literally mega-corporations that spend millions each election cycle making sure this never happens.

FYI, you know, I don't disagree in principle about healthcare. I'm just a realist that works in a real environment. Shouting at people to make things free is not effective.

BalloonBattle05 posted...

for sure but if you refuse to change yourself, why even bother helping you?

What if the addiction started from a prescription?

Seems fucked up to put someone at risk of addiction and then saying "We can't help you because you're now an addict"

Xavier_On_High posted...

Did an A.I. write this?

no, an awful person

Lost_All_Senses posted...

What if the addiction started from a prescription?

Seems fucked up to put someone at risk of addiction and then saying "We can't help you because you're now an addict"

how does this happen?

BalloonBattle05 posted...

how does this happen?

You really don't know anything about the real world.

BalloonBattle05 posted...

how does this happen?

? Exactly how I just said. I dunno what thing that's known to happen you're confused about.

One way is someone is on a prescription, they lose insurance or the ability to cover it. They get cut off, they get withdrawals that can make them suicidal even. So, they seek out drugs that haven't been priced insanely high through big pharma

NightingaleMD posted...

Between the two of us, only one of us has worked in health policy

God reading shit like this gets so old

I hope people who think like this never comment on anything infrastructure related if they're not engineers, economy related if they're not financial analysts/economists, software related if they're not developers, etc

It's so mind numbing

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I was writing something up along these lines but it got lost. You put it much more succinctly.

How fat are you, what's your BMI, do you do any exercise, do you do enough, do you make an effort to have friends, to be with family (mental health), what's your diet like etc etc

Now it's a fair question to ask on TC's part but the benefit for all outweighs the sect of people he is describing, and as wasteful as our government is now I don't mind the waste of my dollars if that means the door is kept open to people like them.

I find it disheartening that there's always that mindset of money over people.

Gwynevere posted...

God reading shit like this gets so old

I hope people who think like this never comment on anything infrastructure related if they're not engineers

ummmmmm

I don't want to be in a building that internet people designed, I'll stick to engineers...

Anyway bitching is useless

solutions are the only thing I'm interested in

Not one has been proposed in this topic

Lost_All_Senses posted...

? Exactly how I just said. I dunno what thing that's known to happen you're confused about.

One way is someone is on a prescription, they lose insurance or the ability to cover it. They get cut off, they get withdrawals that can make them suicidal even. So, they seek out drugs that haven't been priced insanely high through big pharma

i just never seen this happen before

_Angel_ posted...

How fat are you, what's your BMI, do you do any exercise, do you do enough, do you make an effort to have friends, to be with family (mental health), what's your diet like etc etc

Now it's a fair question to ask on TC's part but the benefit for all outweighs the sect of people he is describing, and as wasteful as our government is now I don't mind the waste of my dollars if that means the door is kept open to people like them.

I find it disheartening that there's always that mindset of money over people

obesity is obviously a problem but smoking causes more deaths than many other things combined. Its also not possible to not die because you didnt smoke a cigarette but its possible to die of starvation

if you mean people would rather let someone die than pay bills to save their life, Id say theres no point in prolonging your life if you want to keep harming yourself (not that you should be forced to die)

BalloonBattle05 posted...

i just never seen this happen before

You're not gonna be forced to look at it. You have to care and not shy away from seeing it.

mustachedmystic posted...

I quit smoking, drinking, and getting high (I wasn't addicted to the booze or weed) the day I was diagnosed with heart disease. If I can do it, anyone can.

You have to want to quit or it's not gonna work. I did the same with drinking when I was having liver issues.

Alcoholism is the best disease cause atleast you get to be drunk

BalloonBattle05 posted...

obesity is obviously a problem

That shit is a HUGE problem and it causes a whole host of other medical problems while being exponentially more accepted than smoke or drink in America.

Not to imply that fat shaming is an acceptable answer of course but it's an apples to apples comparison. You're actively fucking your body up by eating too much.

As to the latter part of your response, there's really nothing more to say there. I believe in keeping that door open for addicts as much as I believe the same for overweight people. Same shit.

So if you are so convinced that universal Healthcare could never work in America or will take a generation to be possible or whatever you're thoughts are... why is America so much more incompetent and/or shitty than pretty much every other developed nation?

Also if you want solutions look at the models essentially every other first world country uses. You got a ton of options.

Universal healthcare is exactly that. Universal. Theres no morally acceptable excuse to exclude people. In the case of something like covid vaccinations however, if they refuse the vaccination they are refusing the healthcare so thats different:

_Angel_ posted...

That shit is a HUGE problem and it causes a whole host of other medical problems while being exponentially more accepted than smoke or drink in America.

probably because while obesity isnt ok, people probably get bullied enough that they want to change themselves more than smokers, and also second hand smoking affects everyone while obesity only affects you

mustachedmystic posted...

Where are you going with this?

i want to know why didnt you consider the consequences of your health

BalloonBattle05 posted...

i want to know why didnt you consider the consequences of your health

'Cause I was young, and stupid, and . . . human.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

Universal healthcare is exactly that. Universal. Theres no morally acceptable excuse to exclude people. In the case of something like covid vaccinations however, if they refuse the vaccination they are refusing the healthcare so thats different:

Are you saying people who refuse the vaccine should be refused treatment? Because people refuse healthcare for all kinds of things all the time, and I don't think that should bar them from further treatment. It should be universal.

To everyone who says that smokers pay more for insurance, many people would just beg for money (especially when they are aggressive) or borrow money from others and manipulate them into thinking they will be paid back when they wont.

Forcing people to die isnt the answer but paying more for insurance clearly isnt the answer to make people quit, especially if its sooner rather than later

TC draws Xs on his hands in sharpie each morning and avoids breathing in the fumes.

Xavier_On_High posted...

Are you saying people who refuse the vaccine should be refused treatment? Because people refuse healthcare for all kinds of things all the time, and I don't think that should bar them from further treatment. It should be universal.

in the case of a global pandemic specifically, yes. not in the overwhelming majority of other cases including whatever evil BS TC is spouting

Kloe_Rinz posted...

in the case of a global pandemic specifically, yes. not in the overwhelming majority of other cases including whatever evil BS TC is spouting

why should you be given free health care if youre not going to take proper care of yourself?

NightingaleMD posted...

lol

classic internet post

Between the two of us, only one of us has worked in health policy

I'm not being a dick, I'm just saying snapping fingers to "fix it" is not realistic. It's how I thought things worked when I was in middle school.

I mean, just to take your bait, please explain how I "get off my ass" and fix the entirety of healthcare

EDIT: and I'm serious. I post anonymously on the internet without ever leaving a trace of my real identity because I work both politically as well as medically. Give me one good fucking idea

if it floats I'll run with it

Otherwise I'm getting tired of rolling my eyes at all these keyboard warriors saying "FREE HEALTHCARE!" and other memespeak. Well, you know, there are literally mega-corporations that spend millions each election cycle making sure this never happens.

FYI, you know, I don't disagree in principle about healthcare. I'm just a realist that works in a real environment. Shouting at people to make things free is not effective.

aaaaaaaaannnnnndd crickets

Just fix it bro.

Everyone deserves free healthcare.

NightingaleMD posted...

Free healthcare is a catch-all term for riling up the dem base, but it's literally impossible.

No it fucking isnt lmao far less wealthy countries than ours have implemented it.

BalloonBattle05 posted...

It can be difficult to break an addiction and not every smoker/drug addict is like this but many people intend to abuse the system and would return to smoking or drug abuse once you help them. Youre wasting tax money on these people prolonging their life when you could instead give them a huge wake up call to get off the habit before its too late

Forcing people to die isnt the answer and would likely turn them into criminals and murderers because they would have nothing to lose at that point but if youre not going to take the consequences of smoking or drug abuse seriously, why should we take you seriously when you say you dont want to die?

There are plenty of liberals who think smokers and fat people should be intelligible for at least a generation once single payer health care starts. It's a very anti poor position and defeats the point of single payer but it is what it is.

*ineligible

Great idea.

Also, if you have a second slice of cake at a wedding, you should also be disqualified from free healthcare. Disqualified! Drain on the system!

And meat more than once a week? Disqualified! Drain on the system!

If you get 149 minutes or less of exercise a week? Disqualified! Drain on the system!

E_S_M_Z posted...

Also, if you have a second slice of cake at a wedding, you should also be disqualified from free healthcare. Disqualified! Drain on the system!

And meat more than once a week? Disqualified! Drain on the system!

If you get 149 minutes or less of exercise a week? Disqualified! Drain on the system!

smoking and drug abuse by themselves will harm you

a slice of cake, piece of meat or lack of exercise wont kill you by themselves

you could argue that obese people should pay for their healthcare but given fat shaming is common enough and the consequences would be more apparent through you being unable to fit in spaces and clothes I dont see any need to damage obese people even more

BalloonBattle05 posted...

smoking and drug abuse by themselves will harm you

a slice of cake, piece of meat or lack of exercise wont kill you by themselves

Wut? Smoking a cigarette wont kill you by itself either, its prolonged use of tobacco over time that might cause health problems and it is the same with unhealthy food and lack of exercise.

Shablagoo posted...

Wut? Smoking a cigarette wont kill you by itself either, its prolonged use of tobacco over time that might cause health problems and it is the same with unhealthy food and lack of exercise.

https://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/news/20180125/smoke-1-cigarette-a-day-it-can-still-kill-you

https://www.livescience.com/32886-one-cigarette-cant-hurt-think-again-.html

Which is why people say that anyone who has never smoked before should never start

maybe it shouldnt harm you terribly but its easy enough to get hooked

no one should be disqualified from free healthcare

and the obese and old are more of a strain anyway

rexcrk posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/7/5/AACE4xAACrxX.jpg

Do a vanishing pencil trick

If only healthy people can use it, its not really healthcare

UndefeatedGOAT posted...

no one should be disqualified from free healthcare

and the obese and old are more of a strain anyway

what did old people do?

Obese people may be a bigger strain but they likely know from fat shaming and having trouble fitting in tight spaces that they should change.

BalloonBattle05 posted...

what did old people do?

Obese people may be a bigger strain but they likely know from fat shaming and having trouble fitting in tight spaces that they should change.

doesn't matter, if a death row inmate has cancer we treat them. It's the moral thing to do, health care should not discriminate

Shablagoo posted...

No it fucking isnt lmao far less wealthy countries than ours have implemented it.

lol

common meme take

Unfortunately it's never happened to a country that is already run by private insurance companies. I was not kidding when I said they run the country, or at least one of the mega corps that do from donations and strongly influencing policy.

Lots of "just fix it" hot takes, no substance

Again, I actually agree with single payer, but our country is set up in a way that virtually guarantees its blockage from private industry. You would need a viable way to convert from one economy to another, that's where this all falls short and back into, "well, just fix it" memes that get shot around here.

UndefeatedGOAT posted...

doesn't matter, if a death row inmate has cancer we treat them. It's the moral thing to do, health care should not discriminate

im saying that while you can make the argument for obese people being disqualified, I just dont see any reason to remove it when they often want to change themselves and not abuse the system

im not against giving smokers and drug addicts free healthcare either, but it seems like they are taking it for granted more and will refuse to change themselves

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