Current Events > TFS "we are burnt out DBZ abridged is done"

(+) Yeah! (+)

Scotty_Rogers posted...

You can't take an entire movie and dub over it. That's no different than bootlegging a Japanese film and dubbing it into English.

Gotta say, you make a good point. Like, in a similar manner, you can't just upload a rifftrax of a movie onto Youtube without getting into legal trouble. The way DBZA handled things it straddled VERY close to that line, so I understand why Toei kept going after them.

Having said that I disagree on the whole parody stance. They don't need to be constantly funny and can still play certain scenes straight in order to be a parody, so I was fine with that SSJ2 transformation scene.

Does TFS really have Funimation's permission? Doesn't Sean Schemmel hate them or something lol

Scotty_Rogers posted...

You can't take an entire movie and dub over it. That's no different than bootlegging a Japanese film and dubbing it into English.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/2/7/AABrRdAACxWb.jpg

TMOG posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/2/7/AABrRdAACxWb.jpg

That looks like an original parody movie, not an existing movie that was dubbed over to become a parody.

Scotty_Rogers posted...

Does TFS really have Funimation's permission? Doesn't Sean Schemmel hate them or something lol

Sean Schemmel hates any other dub of DBZ, because he's so attached to being "THE Goku" and so overprotective of the role that it actually borderlines on him being a psychopath about it.

On the flipside, Chris Sabat thinks DBZA is hilarious and supports them. Kyle Hebert even went so far as to make a cameo voice appearance as Santa Claus in one of the DBZA movies, and the narrator in another.

And, again, they don't need Funimation's permission to create the series, as it does fall under fair use law in the United States, whether you like it or not. Funimation also only owns the distribution rights to Dragon Ball in the US, not the actual intellectual property, so their "permission" would be irrelevant anyway -- it's more of a blessing.

As has been said multiple times, all legal problems they faced came from Toei being heavy-handed, and YouTube being spineless.

Scotty_Rogers posted...

That looks like an original parody movie, not an existing movie that was dubbed over to become a parody.

So you've never heard of it until this topic?

Scotty_Rogers posted...

Does TFS really have Funimation's permission? Doesn't Sean Schemmel hate them or something lol

What does it matter what Sean thinks he's not in charge of funimation

TMOG posted...

as it does fall under fair use law in the United States

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think you're being a little too generous with the idea that as long as it's parody you can do whatever you want. Copyright infringement falls under civil jurisdiction more often than criminal and when allegations/charges are made people do have to actually convince an authority that the infringement falls under fair use. It's not an entirely objective decision.

As someone noted before, the lawyers behind Rifftrax/MSG3K have determined that it's not worth the money to fight (and that they would probably lose) if they sold the Rifftrax layered over the actual movie, rather than the "you buy an mp3 and sync it up yourself" approach. Even though those are clearly parody, they aren't sufficiently transformative enough (in some people's eyes).

So yeah maybe you get a civil judge to agree that DBZA is protected parody, but maybe you also get a civil judge who argues that since the abridging keeps in too much of the "core" of the original material and that changing the audio isn't sufficient. This is also where it gets dicier about scenes that they play entirely straight.

Anteaterking posted...

As someone noted before, the lawyers behind Rifftrax/MSG3K have determined that it's not worth the money to fight (and that they would probably lose) if they sold the Rifftrax layered over the actual movie, rather than the "you buy an mp3 and sync it up yourself" approach. Even though those are clearly parody, they aren't sufficiently transformative enough (in some people's eyes).

The huge, obvious difference between Rifftrax and DBZA is that Rifftrax is simply commentary, while DBZA is a fan edit. If Rifftrax sold their commentary along with the movie, they aren't actually altering the movie itself, simply talking over it. DBZA will redraw certain elements of the original footage to fit their purposes, along with other edits (including rewrites to the script and characters) and a complete replacement of the audio track, rather than a supplement to it.

Rifftrax is not a transformative work, DBZA is. They're really not comparable at all.

TMOG posted...

Rifftrax is not a transformative work, DBZA is. They're really not comparable at all.

They are both transformative work. Legally speaking being transformative work isn't enough because copyright also entitles you to rights to the derivative works.

Even if I remade every single frame with completely new art and new audio at the end of the day that's still infringement. You don't need to look very far to find cases of this shit being shut down in the wild. Completely original Pokemon & Mario fan games get shut down despite using 100% original assets

They said they're burnt out by the abridging process. The pre-made footage, the expectation to follow the original plot and make jokes of it...they said one of their reasons for quitting at Buu is because they thought it would be a lot harder to make it a heartfelt parody that came from a place of love...because Buu is one of those places in the series that has a lot of...

Issues.

They still love anime and Dragon Ball (which they've said numerous times) but the actual abridged series is a massive project with certain expectations that they're not really enjoying like they used to. It's a lot of work and they don't really 'own' any of the content. Meanwhile, original animations, reviews, countdowns, etc. are their own content that they can actually take full credit for (even if it uses characters from Dragon Ball, it's more like Robot Chicken than a straight rip of the exact same animation and imagery)

TMOG posted...

The huge, obvious difference between Rifftrax and DBZA is that Rifftrax is simply commentary, while DBZA is a fan edit. If Rifftrax sold their commentary along with the movie, they aren't actually altering the movie itself, simply talking over it. DBZA will redraw certain elements of the original footage to fit their purposes, along with other edits (including rewrites to the script and characters) and a complete replacement of the audio track, rather than a supplement to it.

Rifftrax is not a transformative work, DBZA is. They're really not comparable at all.

I don't think you understand that what you're writing here from a court perspective is completely arbitrary. There aren't statutes that are like "As long as this many frames are new, as long as you don't talk over the audio, etc. etc."

Yeah transformative work is a defense in court, not something that is well defined. The copyright law is left vague on purpose for the court to decide definitively if it's protected under copyright laws. With that said, most of the time, even if you feel you are in the right, it is just too expensive to go through court anyways, which is what these big companies use to their advantage. The YouTube copyright law favors those who do the accusing because it takes liability away from YouTube themselves and puts it on the other parties.

I don't know if somebody already pointed it out in here, but they said that they really couldn't stomach the idea of forcing the creation of post cell arc content, so they gave up on continuing that.

That doesn't mean they're hypocrites for doing other DBZ shit. More power to them if that's what they feel like doing, they've had an amazing run with DBZA

Heartomaton posted...

He's a furry.

so?

Who cares?

Kim_Seong-a posted...

Or, better idea.

We collectively move on from Youtube, so that the infrastructure of indie content isn't at the whims of Google. >_>

That's the dream

Still though, indie creators gotta eat too, and big platforms with lots of viewers is the best way to achieve that. Big platforms then attract the eyes of companies and then the cycle repeats

Copyright law is fundamentally broken in many ways

Maze_ posted...

so?

Who cares?

That conversation has happened already.

Pretty sure anybody who says "I hate (person) because they're a furry" and don't offer any further explanation are just closeted furries in denial about themselves

Just make a fursona and embrace who you really are, Heartomaton

If it makes you feel better to believe that, you go right ahead. Do what you need to do.

Besides, I gave further explanation. I said they make me sick.

It's honestly impressive they haven't totally burned out on Dragon Ball, though I guess they are locked into it financially.

Heartomaton posted...

If it makes you feel better to believe that, you go right ahead. Do what you need to do.

Besides, I gave further explanation. I said they make me sick.

Why? What's wrong with them, eh?

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Why? What's wrong with them, eh?

Their interests and desires make my stomach turn and my bile rise. That's all I need to know.

It's the exact same effect that anyone who would vote for a toxic, petulant ape in a suit to be the leader of their country, and claim to be proud to possibly do it again, has on any reasonable human being.

Heartomaton posted...

Their interests and desires make my stomach turn and my bile rise. That's all I need to know.

And when you say things like this, do you fail to recognize the extremely judgemental, intolerant nature of the feeling you describe?

Veggeta_MAX posted...

I can't remember when but I stopped watching them when they started to take themselves more serious rather than stay being a funny parody.

Last thing i remember watching from them is the part where they gave android 16 a serious backstory, like he was Geros son or something.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

And when you say things like this, do you fail to recognize the extremely judgemental, intolerant nature of the feeling you describe?

I recognize it just fine, it's just that considering who the targets of that judgement and intolerance are, I'm okay with it.

After all, it's not like the few niche groups of people I treat this way actually matter in the grand scheme of things. They're not actually important groups that deserve respect and courtesy, they're fringe groups of otherwise random people that are only connected by very specific interests, fetishes, and coincidences.

Seaman_Prime posted...

Last thing i remember watching from them is the part where they gave android 16 a serious backstory, like he was Geros son or something.

That's actually canon to 16 in DBZ proper, but not exactly in that way. 16 was modeled after Gero's son, not made from him. This is true in both DBZ and Abridged.

Heartomaton posted...

I recognize it just fine, it's just that considering who the targets of that judgement and intolerance are, I'm okay with it.

After all, it's not like the few niche groups of people I treat this way actually matter in the grand scheme of things. They're not actually important groups that deserve respect and courtesy, they're fringe groups of otherwise random people that are only connected by very specific interests, fetishes, and coincidences.

Some day you'll grow up and figure out exactly what you just implied here.

TMOG posted...

Some day you'll grow up and figure out exactly what you just implied here.

When I get there, will you have grown up enough to know better than to repeatedly bash your head against brick walls?

Heartomaton posted...

When I get there, will you have grown up enough to know better than to repeatedly bash your head against brick walls?

...So what you're saying is that because I don't arbitrarily hate specific groups of people, I must have brain damage?

TMOG posted...

...So what you're saying is that because I don't arbitrarily hate specific groups of people, I must have brain damage?

Woosh. Nope. I'm saying you should realize when an argument has zero possibilities of any actual progress and divorce yourself from it.

Unless you want to admit that you like unwinnable fights.

Heartomaton posted...

I recognize it just fine, it's just that considering who the targets of that judgement and intolerance are, I'm okay with it.

After all, it's not like the few niche groups of people I treat this way actually matter in the grand scheme of things. They're not actually important groups that deserve respect and courtesy, they're fringe groups of otherwise random people that are only connected by very specific interests, fetishes, and coincidences.

Ummmmm...

Bro? Do you have any idea what you just admitted to? Stop telling on yourself so hard lmao

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Ummmmm...

Bro? Do you have any idea what you just admitted to? Stop telling on yourself so hard lmao

Probably something that makes you think you've got a "gotcha" moment on hand.

Heartomaton posted...

Woosh. Nope. I'm saying you should realize when an argument has zero possibilities of any actual progress and divorce yourself from it.

Unless you want to admit that you like unwinnable fights.

I mean, I'm not the one taking the mask off and talking about how much I love bigotry, but you do you man

Heartomaton posted...

Probably something that makes you think you've got a "gotcha" moment on hand.

You literally just used point for point the same arguments that racists and those guilty of gender/orientation discrimination use. They're a "fringe group" only "connected by fetishes."

Like, if you don't like furries, that's your right... but your reasoning is straight up hateful and dehumanizing.

TMOG posted...

I mean, I'm not the one taking the mask off and talking about how much I love bigotry, but you do you man

Lol, "mask". I've never once hidden how I feel about these groups, but nice try.

Anyway, if "bigot" is a title I must take in order to make my feelings on insignificant fringe groups like those known, then "bigot" will do just fine.

*modifies tag to "Hates Furries, Probably Racist"*

Heartomaton posted...

Lol, "mask". I've never once hidden how I feel about these groups, but nice try.

Anyway, if "bigot" is a title I must take in order to make my feelings on insignificant fringe groups like those known, then "bigot" will do just fine.

You know you can just not like the fetish, right? That's what the rest of us do. You don't need to have this sheer hatred that you do.

TMOG posted...

That's actually canon to 16 in DBZ proper, but not exactly in that way. 16 was modeled after Gero's son, not made from him. This is true in both DBZ and Abridged.

oh neat! I just looked it up and found that was revealed in a Q&A with Toriyama and thats part of the reason 16 has a gentle personality because Gero didnt want him to die in battle again. ;(

Holy shit, you know this was a topic about DBZ Abridged before you came in to espouse your whole anti furry manifesto, right? Coming in to spread unprovoked hatred isn't really a good way of spending your time, just as general life advice.

TMOG posted...

*modifies tag to "Hates Furries, Probably Racist"*

Good job feeding yourself misinformation.

Funkydog posted...

You know you can just not like the fetish, right? That's what the rest of us do. You don't need to have this sheer hatred that you do.

I don't need to do a lot of the things I do.

Seaman_Prime posted...

oh neat! I just looked it up and found that was revealed in a Q&A with Toriyama and thats part of the reason 16 has a gentle personality because Gero didnt want him to die in battle again. ;(

Didn't work :(

Heartomaton posted...

You don't say.

It's almost as if it was intentional.

So you're doubling down on direct hate speech and dehumanizing people because of their personal (and harmless) lifestyle preferences?

Holy shit why did you do this, lol

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Holy shit, you know this was a topic about DBZ Abridged before you came in to espouse your whole anti furry manifesto, right? Coming in to spread unprovoked hatred isn't really a good way of spending your time, just as general life advice.

Right? I was in here just talking about Dragon Ball and comedy structure, and suddenly here comes a guy who's literally the uncle at Thanksgiving who starts every conversation with "Minorities, am I right?"

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Holy shit, you know this was a topic about DBZ Abridged before you came in to espouse your whole anti furry manifesto, right? Coming in to spread unprovoked hatred isn't really a good way of spending your time, just as general life advice.

All I said was "Except Kaiserneko. Fuck him."

Then people asked why. It's not my fault their curiosity opened a can of worms.

I'll grant you that I could have said nothing specific at all, but then that would make my statement that I was glad all the people who worked on DBZA were able to move on slightly untrue.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

So you're doubling down on direct hate speech and dehumanizing people because of their personal (and harmless) lifestyle preferences?

Holy shit why did you do this, lol

Do you not understand how the human action of hatred works?

Heartomaton posted...

Then people asked why. It's not my fault their curiosity opened a can of worms.

It's kind of your fault when the worms in this metaphor are your own hateful, bigoted views. Also, saying "fuck kaiserneko" is still an open expression of your hatred, just without context. You started the hate. You didn't have to start the hate.

Heartomaton posted...

Do you not understand how the human action of hatred works?

I just don't understand why, in the context of a forum which gives you nigh unlimited time to conceptualize, plan, type, and edit your thoughts, none of which anybody will see until you press the "post new message" button, you deliberately typed up and choose to post hateful, vitriolic messaging.

Like, you did it on purpose. You aren't accidentally hateful. You're proud of it. That's a bad thing.

Heartomaton posted...

All I said was "Except Kaiserneko. Fuck him."

Then people asked why. It's not my fault their curiosity opened a can of worms.

I'll grant you that I could have said nothing specific at all, but then that would make my statement that I was glad all the people who worked on DBZA were able to move on slightly untrue.

The reason you specified that you didn't like Kaiser was because you wanted somebody to follow up on it, so you could go on your hate-filled agenda. Don't act for one second like you didn't know exactly what you were doing and why.

Lmao, he's legit proud others consider him a hateful bigot piece of shit.

Veggeta_MAX posted...

I can't remember when but I stopped watching them when they started to take themselves more serious rather than stay being a funny parody.

I had that same feeling too. I think it was around the Frieza fight they got too serious and not funny enough

CinderLock posted...

They fact they put out like a 30 minute video to talk about how burnt out they are but continue to do dragon ball content is wild.

I dunno

Replace content provider with emergency doctor and that's me

Hard to criticize