Current Events > Hawkeye Episode 6 Finale Topic SPOILERS

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Kastrada 12/22/21 8:05:37 AM #51:	indica posted... This. It would be like having a 9/11 musical... Come From Away comes close! --- PoW '09 Topic of the Year Co-Winners (Rada and Texy) FFD <cite>Kastrada posted [p:961125035] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>indica posted... </cite> <quote>This. It would be like having a 9/11 musical...</quote> Come From Away comes close! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 12/22/21 8:13:30 AM #52:	Mr_Karate_II posted... You're overthinking and just nitpicking. Why even watch a show if you're just going to bitch and moan about damn near everything? Because the bad writing snuck up on me, I was excited for Fisk, but just about every clever idea I thought they were going to do they didn't, and they really made it all a larping joke. It's like asking why I watch GoT S8. The answer is because it used to be good and there is promising ideas in there, but if they are going to turn every good idea into a fart in a cake and then we are all supposed to go "yum yum" because it's a C- and not a D-, I'm going to rant at it. The last episode was the worst, there were hints early that they were being shallow marvel, but it wasn't until the last episode that it became clear just how shallow marvel it was being. Marvel used to get me to care, now it jebaits me into caring and then kinda betrays me for doing so. It's a damn shame too, because it's a really good idea for a series and the bulletpoints for the plot are quite good, but when it comes to writing and directing it into reality, it turned from something that could exist in the Daredevil universe to something that could exist in the power-rangers universe. And that sucks, because Marvel used to be better. I watched because Marvel used to be good and I had hope. My frustration and disappointment didn't come from me hate watching, it came from them letting the audience down. Marvel has a major stakes problem that is super distracting. Is any of this life and death or not? Are all the fights larping or real fights? If the answer is "there are no rules and no internal logic, it's all literally bullshit and none of it matters" then I truly don't see how anybody cares. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori http://i.imgur.com/TheGsZ9.gif <cite>joe40001 posted [p:961125134] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>Mr_Karate_II posted... </cite> <quote>You're overthinking and just nitpicking. Why even watch a show if you're just going to bitch and moan about damn near everything?</quote> Because the bad writing snuck up on me, I was excited for Fisk, but just about every clever idea I thought they were going to do they didn't, and they really made it all a larping joke. It's like asking why I watch GoT S8. The answer is because it used to be good and there is promising ideas in there, but if they are going to turn every good idea into a fart in a cake and then we are all supposed to go "yum yum" because it's a C- and not a D-, I'm going to rant at it. The last episode was the worst, there were hints early that they were being shallow marvel, but it wasn't until the last episode that it became clear just how shallow marvel it was being. Marvel used to get me to care, now it jebaits me into caring and then kinda betrays me for doing so. It's a damn shame too, because it's a really good idea for a series and the bulletpoints for the plot are quite good, but when it comes to writing and directing it into reality, it turned from something that could exist in the Daredevil universe to something that could exist in the power-rangers universe. And that sucks, because Marvel used to be better. I watched because Marvel used to be good and I had hope. My frustration and disappointment didn't come from me hate watching, it came from them letting the audience down. Marvel has a major stakes problem that is super distracting. Is any of this life and death or not? Are all the fights larping or real fights? If the answer is "there are no rules and no internal logic, it's all literally bullshit and none of it matters" then I truly don't see how anybody cares. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr_Karate_II 12/22/21 8:15:00 AM #53:	joe40001 posted... Because the bad writing snuck up on me, I was excited for Fisk, but just about every clever idea I thought they were going to do they didn't, and they really made it all a larping joke. It's like asking why I watch GoT S8. The answer is because it used to be good and there is promising ideas in there, but if they are going to turn every good idea into a fart in a cake and then we are all supposed to go "yum yum" because it's a C- and not a D-, I'm going to rant at it. The last episode was the worst, there were hints early that they were being shallow marvel, but it wasn't until the last episode that it became clear just how shallow marvel it was being. Marvel used to get me to care, now it jebaits me into caring and then kinda betrays me for doing so. It's a damn shame too, because it's a really good idea for a series and the bulletpoints for the plot are quite good, but when it comes to writing and directing it into reality, it turned from something that could exist in the Daredevil universe to something that could exist in the power-rangers universe. And that sucks, because Marvel used to be better. I watched because Marvel used to be good and I had hope. My frustration and disappointment didn't come from me hate watching, it came from them letting the audience down. Marvel has a major stakes problem that is super distracting. Is any of this life and death or not? Are all the fights larping or real fights? If the answer is "there are no rules and no internal logic, it's all literally bullshit and none of it matters" then I truly don't see how anybody cares. Again, you're overthinking it. --- Currently Playing: Dead by Daylight,Friday the 13th and Forza Horizon 5 <cite>Mr_Karate_II posted [p:961125151] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>joe40001 posted... </cite> <quote>Because the bad writing snuck up on me, I was excited for Fisk, but just about every clever idea I thought they were going to do they didn't, and they really made it all a larping joke. It's like asking why I watch GoT S8. The answer is because it used to be good and there is promising ideas in there, but if they are going to turn every good idea into a fart in a cake and then we are all supposed to go "yum yum" because it's a C- and not a D-, I'm going to rant at it. The last episode was the worst, there were hints early that they were being shallow marvel, but it wasn't until the last episode that it became clear just how shallow marvel it was being. Marvel used to get me to care, now it jebaits me into caring and then kinda betrays me for doing so. It's a damn shame too, because it's a really good idea for a series and the bulletpoints for the plot are quite good, but when it comes to writing and directing it into reality, it turned from something that could exist in the Daredevil universe to something that could exist in the power-rangers universe. And that sucks, because Marvel used to be better. I watched because Marvel used to be good and I had hope. My frustration and disappointment didn't come from me hate watching, it came from them letting the audience down. Marvel has a major stakes problem that is super distracting. Is any of this life and death or not? Are all the fights larping or real fights? If the answer is "there are no rules and no internal logic, it's all literally bullshit and none of it matters" then I truly don't see how anybody cares.</quote>Again, you're overthinking it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 12/22/21 8:21:33 AM #54:	Mr_Karate_II posted... Again, you're overthinking it. I'm trying to think about it at the minimum level, if I go any lower the show doesn't have a plot. You don't have to have real world rules, but you have to have SOME rules or else it's just a series of random events, none of which are necessarily logically connected because we've established that no logical rules are required for the narrative. At that point you might as well just watch a series of images. Plot requires rules. What are the rules here? --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori http://i.imgur.com/TheGsZ9.gif <cite>joe40001 posted [p:961125227] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>Mr_Karate_II posted... </cite> <quote>Again, you're overthinking it.</quote> I'm trying to think about it at the minimum level, if I go any lower the show doesn't have a plot. You don't have to have real world rules, but you have to have SOME rules or else it's just a series of random events, none of which are necessarily logically connected because we've established that no logical rules are required for the narrative. At that point you might as well just watch a series of images. Plot requires rules. What are the rules here? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BakonBitz 12/22/21 9:50:48 AM #55:	I can't really say much to dispute that (except the final episode felt a lot more like standard Marvel Disney flair than the rest of the series), but Fisk being super strong compared to a regular human is normal to his character, is it not? --- Game collection: http://www.backloggery.com/bakonbitz Gaming channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwVQm69J7bGScbv3_50C0dA <cite>BakonBitz posted [p:961126513] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>I can't really say much to dispute that (except the final episode felt a lot more like standard Marvel Disney flair than the rest of the series), but Fisk being super strong compared to a regular human is normal to his character, is it not? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Blue_Popo 12/22/21 10:01:26 AM #56:	BakonBitz posted... I can't really say much to dispute that (except the final episode felt a lot more like standard Marvel Disney flair than the rest of the series), but Fisk being super strong compared to a regular human is normal to his character, is it not? It is normal <cite>Blue_Popo posted [p:961126675] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>BakonBitz posted... </cite> <quote>I can't really say much to dispute that (except the final episode felt a lot more like standard Marvel Disney flair than the rest of the series), but Fisk being super strong compared to a regular human is normal to his character, is it not?</quote> It is normal </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MacadamianNut3 12/22/21 10:42:12 AM #57:	Yeah I stopped reading that novel of a post when he complained about Fisk being a mini Hulk Because fucking duh that's who Kingpin is. He's not a fatass, that's all muscle --- Roll Tide & Go Irish <cite>MacadamianNut3 posted [p:961127476] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>Yeah I stopped reading that novel of a post when he complained about Fisk being a mini Hulk Because fucking duh that's who Kingpin is. He's not a fatass, that's all muscle </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
indica 12/22/21 10:46:28 AM #58:	MacadamianNut3 posted... Yeah I stopped reading that novel of a post when he complained about Fisk being a mini Hulk Because fucking duh that's who Kingpin is. He's not a fatass, that's all muscle No amount of muscle is going to save you from being hit by a car like that and then directly hit by mutilpe explosions...dude's got super power --- There is no good. There is no evil. There just is. <cite>indica posted [p:961127572] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>MacadamianNut3 posted... </cite> <quote>Yeah I stopped reading that novel of a post when he complained about Fisk being a mini Hulk Because fucking duh that's who Kingpin is. He's not a fatass, that's all muscle</quote>No amount of muscle is going to save you from being hit by a car like that and then directly hit by mutilpe explosions...dude's got super power </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Blue_Popo 12/22/21 10:54:03 AM #59:	indica posted... No amount of muscle is going to save you from being hit by a car like that and then directly hit by mutilpe explosions...dude's got super power Might be the serum. Seems like it is rare but attainable with enough resources in this world <cite>Blue_Popo posted [p:961127737] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>indica posted... </cite> <quote>No amount of muscle is going to save you from being hit by a car like that and then directly hit by mutilpe explosions...dude's got super power</quote> Might be the serum. Seems like it is rare but attainable with enough resources in this world </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MacadamianNut3 12/22/21 10:55:35 AM #60:	Did we just watch a show where arrows created a magnetic field strong enough to yeet guns from people's hands, two people with bows avoided getting shot by any of the 100+ people surrounding them, and all of the explosions and sonic booms happening on a small ice rink didn't affect the two protagonists at all Why even watch Marvel stuff if you're gonna complain about realism --- Roll Tide & Go Irish <cite>MacadamianNut3 posted [p:961127772] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>Did we just watch a show where arrows created a magnetic field strong enough to yeet guns from people's hands, two people with bows avoided getting shot by any of the 100+ people surrounding them, and all of the explosions and sonic booms happening on a small ice rink didn't affect the two protagonists at all Why even watch Marvel stuff if you're gonna complain about realism </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LightHawKnight 12/22/21 12:29:41 PM #61:	burns112233 posted... ~~He's gonneee (Kingpin)~~ Nah hes alive. The scene is straight out of the comics and he survived it. --- The Official Odin of the Shin Megami Tensei IV board. "You know how confusing the whole good-evil concept is for me." <cite>LightHawKnight posted [p:961129949] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>burns112233 posted... </cite> <quote>He's gonneee (Kingpin)</quote> Nah hes alive. The scene is straight out of the comics and he survived it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
sktgamer_13dude 12/22/21 12:36:15 PM #62:	>people getting surrounded by people with guns >is that really self-defense though??????? Also complaining about Clint being an absentee father while hes trying to save/help someone whos family is either dead or working with the mafia is uh, a take. --- http://i.imgur.com/jWVrg9U.gif http://i.imgur.com/g2efUtT.jpg http://i.imgur.com/5dOwhaP.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LVdqu8J.gif Go Cougs and M's RIP SMV 2/25/21 <cite>sktgamer_13dude posted [p:961130120] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>>people getting surrounded by people with guns >is that really self-defense though??????? Also complaining about Clint being an absentee father while hes trying to save/help someone whos family is either dead or working with the mafia is uh, a take.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MaxEffingBemis 12/22/21 12:46:40 PM #63:	Anyone else disappointed that Kate took down Kingpin all on her own? Like come on dude give me a break --- She took pity on me, horizontally, but most likely because of my band <cite>MaxEffingBemis posted [p:961130339] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>Anyone else disappointed that Kate took down Kingpin all on her own? Like come on dude give me a break </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MacadamianNut3 12/22/21 12:51:35 PM #64:	Yeah I was expecting to be disappointed by that as soon as she encountered him, but to be fair if he actually wanted to kill her he could have done it in like 5 seconds and he had like a dozen opportunities during the fight instead of just tossing her around. So she really only "won" only because he didn't want to kill her....for some reason only explainable by plot armor --- Roll Tide & Go Irish <cite>MacadamianNut3 posted [p:961130438] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>Yeah I was expecting to be disappointed by that as soon as she encountered him, but to be fair if he actually wanted to kill her he could have done it in like 5 seconds and he had like a dozen opportunities during the fight instead of just tossing her around. So she really only "won" only because he didn't want to kill her....for some reason only explainable by plot armor </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LightHawKnight 12/22/21 12:54:31 PM #65:	MacadamianNut3 posted... Yeah I was expecting to be disappointed by that as soon as she encountered him, but to be fair if he actually wanted to kill her he could have done it in like 5 seconds and he had like a dozen opportunities during the fight instead of just tossing her around. So she really only "won" only because he didn't want to kill her....for some reason only explainable by plot armor Yeah this. Also her getting up after getting hit and thrown by him was stupid. Sure I can see him getting hit by a car through a wall and be fine, but Kate taking hits from Kingpin even if he is holding back? Nah. --- The Official Odin of the Shin Megami Tensei IV board. "You know how confusing the whole good-evil concept is for me." <cite>LightHawKnight posted [p:961130506] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>MacadamianNut3 posted... </cite> <quote>Yeah I was expecting to be disappointed by that as soon as she encountered him, but to be fair if he actually wanted to kill her he could have done it in like 5 seconds and he had like a dozen opportunities during the fight instead of just tossing her around. So she really only "won" only because he didn't want to kill her....for some reason only explainable by plot armor</quote> Yeah this. Also her getting up after getting hit and thrown by him was stupid. Sure I can see him getting hit by a car through a wall and be fine, but Kate taking hits from Kingpin even if he is holding back? Nah. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DKJ 12/22/21 1:09:44 PM #66:	Best finale of all the shows. Kingpin's strength/durability was lolwat after how grounded everything was. --- You are now breathing manually. <cite>DKJ posted [p:961130856] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>Best finale of all the shows. Kingpin's strength/durability was lolwat after how grounded everything was. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RchHomieQuanChi 12/22/21 1:27:08 PM #67:	Seeing Kingpin in a Hawaiian shirt and a hat fucking threw me lmao --- I have nothing else to say <cite>RchHomieQuanChi posted [p:961131239] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>Seeing Kingpin in a Hawaiian shirt and a hat fucking threw me lmao </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 12/22/21 2:03:32 PM #68:	BakonBitz posted... I can't really say much to dispute that (except the final episode felt a lot more like standard Marvel Disney flair than the rest of the series), but Fisk being super strong compared to a regular human is normal to his character, is it not? That part wasn't that bad, on paper Fisk could rip a door of it's hinges even in daredevil, but the execution was like how it would be if hulk or bucky's robot arm ripped off a door. In Daredevil when fisk dead feats of strength it felt effortful, so ripping the door would have been played differently. Him throwing around the girl was appropriate to what we know about him and his strength level. The getting shot by an arrow and it being unclear that he's wearing armor was a bit iffy too. Those are things that in a script might have made sense. When it comes to fisk, it was more the directing/execution and that part wasn't as bad as the rules/stakes problem I was talking about. If you keep him almost the same, but shoot the door thing a bit different and don't even pretend deaf woman shot him but instead he just like breaks her arm and shoots her for trying to shoot him, I would be ok with the Fisk part. The door thing was a bit off, same with the arrow to the chest, and the whole alley sequence feels like it's a trope ripped from a disney cartoon where a tough guy is defeated and acts pathetic in front of their former henchmen and then is killed off screen. (Like scar in the lion king). So better directing on 2 shots, and ditch or change the alley end then IMO fisk is fine. The alley is the worst part, it's super disrespectful to the audience. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori http://i.imgur.com/TheGsZ9.gif <cite>joe40001 posted [p:961132136] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>BakonBitz posted... </cite> <quote>I can't really say much to dispute that (except the final episode felt a lot more like standard Marvel Disney flair than the rest of the series), but Fisk being super strong compared to a regular human is normal to his character, is it not?</quote> That part wasn't that bad, on paper Fisk could rip a door of it's hinges even in daredevil, but the execution was like how it would be if hulk or bucky's robot arm ripped off a door. In Daredevil when fisk dead feats of strength it felt effortful, so ripping the door would have been played differently. Him throwing around the girl was appropriate to what we know about him and his strength level. The getting shot by an arrow and it being unclear that he's wearing armor was a bit iffy too. Those are things that in a script might have made sense. When it comes to fisk, it was more the directing/execution and that part wasn't as bad as the rules/stakes problem I was talking about. If you keep him almost the same, but shoot the door thing a bit different and don't even pretend deaf woman shot him but instead he just like breaks her arm and shoots her for trying to shoot him, I would be ok with the Fisk part. The door thing was a bit off, same with the arrow to the chest, and the whole alley sequence feels like it's a trope ripped from a disney cartoon where a tough guy is defeated and acts pathetic in front of their former henchmen and then is killed off screen. (Like scar in the lion king). So better directing on 2 shots, and ditch or change the alley end then IMO fisk is fine. The alley is the worst part, it's super disrespectful to the audience. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 12/22/21 2:13:01 PM #69:	indica posted... No amount of muscle is going to save you from being hit by a car like that and then directly hit by mutilpe explosions...dude's got super power Yeah, all of those sequences could almost work on paper, but they shot it with looney toons physics are directing. we saw one arrow create a large fireball explosion, this was like 5 arrows, one that is "too dangerous" (so ostensibly way more dangerous than that). Fisk's response to these was effectively the same to Harry being exploded in home alone 2. It's just not filmed in a way that pretends to be grounded. IMO Fisk can handle being hit by a car at like 10mph, he can handle a strong knockback blast, but he can't handle literally being exploded, which the bad directing kinda made it seem like he was. This kind of Marvel is turning into like Power Rangers level reality. Which would be a letdown compared to what Marvel used to be. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori http://i.imgur.com/TheGsZ9.gif <cite>joe40001 posted [p:961132396] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>indica posted... </cite> <quote>No amount of muscle is going to save you from being hit by a car like that and then directly hit by mutilpe explosions...dude's got super power</quote> Yeah, all of those sequences could almost work on paper, but they shot it with looney toons physics are directing. we saw one arrow create a large fireball explosion, this was like 5 arrows, one that is "too dangerous" (so ostensibly way more dangerous than that). Fisk's response to these was effectively the same to Harry being exploded in home alone 2. It's just not filmed in a way that pretends to be grounded. IMO Fisk can handle being hit by a car at like 10mph, he can handle a strong knockback blast, but he can't handle literally being exploded, which the bad directing kinda made it seem like he was. This kind of Marvel is turning into like Power Rangers level reality. Which would be a letdown compared to what Marvel used to be. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 12/22/21 2:24:12 PM #70:	LightHawKnight posted... Yeah this. Also her getting up after getting hit and thrown by him was stupid. Sure I can see him getting hit by a car through a wall and be fine, but Kate taking hits from Kingpin even if he is holding back? Nah. Yeah. I'll even buy that Kingpin might have enough of a paternal instinct and childhood issues that he wouldn't want to kill somebody he views as a child. But I agree, those hits should have wrecked her. Injury in marvel is effectively now as serious as injury in "Home Alone", which completely contrasts with anytime they pretend any of this is serious/real. It's a shame because "Hawkeye having to diehard-esque fight thugs during christmas with his wit and everyman skills, all while his heart like the Grinch is learning to grow again through his interaction with this girl, topped off by an appearance from Fisk." Is a fucking great idea for a marvel tv series. But somewhere disney or somebody gave the production the note "ok but make sure babies could watch this without being too scared or confused." It's not even that you can't do things like this in a PG13 way, but this shit was borderline G rated and also didn't respect the audience or material. Watch something like Star Wars Clone Wars or Rebels if you want to see how to make something kid friendly that still takes the universe seriously. Same with Avatar. But at this point Marvel TV is becoming like kids tv, and not even good kid's tv at that. I miss Daredevil, that show now looks so damn good by comparison. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori http://i.imgur.com/TheGsZ9.gif <cite>joe40001 posted [p:961132688] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>LightHawKnight posted... </cite> <quote>Yeah this. Also her getting up after getting hit and thrown by him was stupid. Sure I can see him getting hit by a car through a wall and be fine, but Kate taking hits from Kingpin even if he is holding back? Nah.</quote> Yeah. I'll even buy that Kingpin might have enough of a paternal instinct and childhood issues that he wouldn't want to kill somebody he views as a child. But I agree, those hits should have wrecked her. Injury in marvel is effectively now as serious as injury in "Home Alone", which completely contrasts with anytime they pretend any of this is serious/real. It's a shame because "Hawkeye having to diehard-esque fight thugs during christmas with his wit and everyman skills, all while his heart like the Grinch is learning to grow again through his interaction with this girl, topped off by an appearance from Fisk." Is a fucking great idea for a marvel tv series. But somewhere disney or somebody gave the production the note "ok but make sure babies could watch this without being too scared or confused." It's not even that you can't do things like this in a PG13 way, but this shit was borderline G rated and also didn't respect the audience or material. Watch something like Star Wars Clone Wars or Rebels if you want to see how to make something kid friendly that still takes the universe seriously. Same with Avatar. But at this point Marvel TV is becoming like kids tv, and not even good kid's tv at that. I miss Daredevil, that show now looks so damn good by comparison. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 12/22/21 2:38:12 PM #71:	sktgamer_13dude posted... >people getting surrounded by people with guns >is that really self-defense though??????? Also complaining about Clint being an absentee father while hes trying to save/help someone whos family is either dead or working with the mafia is uh, a take. Did you miss the part where his magnet arrow took away all their guns? It was crucial to the plot, otherwise any audience member would be like "why don't the 200 people surrounding him just unload their machine guns at him?" So yeah, they didn't have guns and he did shoot arrows at several that didn't pose an immediate risk. I'm not saying it's horrible and ruins everything, but them causing severe injury (if not some death) to 400 people juxtaposes very weird with the girl later being like "this is a country of laws, and you can't murder." I don't see how the guy whose leg is frozen solid, or the people turned into rodent sized people and then taken away by a hawk, or the people exploded, or the people gutted by a sword are "fine". And even if you grant that, Hawkeye literally explicitly killed people as Ronin. Why is that ok? --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori http://i.imgur.com/TheGsZ9.gif <cite>joe40001 posted [p:961133036] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>sktgamer_13dude posted... </cite> <quote>>people getting surrounded by people with guns >is that really self-defense though??????? Also complaining about Clint being an absentee father while hes trying to save/help someone whos family is either dead or working with the mafia is uh, a take.</quote> Did you miss the part where his magnet arrow took away all their guns? It was crucial to the plot, otherwise any audience member would be like "why don't the 200 people surrounding him just unload their machine guns at him?" So yeah, they didn't have guns and he did shoot arrows at several that didn't pose an immediate risk. I'm not saying it's horrible and ruins everything, but them causing severe injury (if not some death) to 400 people juxtaposes very weird with the girl later being like "this is a country of laws, and you can't murder." I don't see how the guy whose leg is frozen solid, or the people turned into rodent sized people and then taken away by a hawk, or the people exploded, or the people gutted by a sword are "fine". And even if you grant that, Hawkeye literally explicitly killed people as Ronin. Why is that ok? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 12/22/21 2:43:27 PM #72:	I don't usually rant like this when it comes to bad tv, but this show had a lot of potential, and the same basic plot beats but taken more seriously and written/directed more seriously could have made for a really awesome show, that's why I'm ranty/annoyed about it. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori http://i.imgur.com/TheGsZ9.gif <cite>joe40001 posted [p:961133182] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>I don't usually rant like this when it comes to bad tv, but this show had a lot of potential, and the same basic plot beats but taken more seriously and written/directed more seriously could have made for a really awesome show, that's why I'm ranty/annoyed about it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
sktgamer_13dude 12/22/21 2:52:43 PM #73:	You seemed to miss the point that its a comic book show, not based on real life, and the Track Suits had been trying to kill them the entire week. Its like youre trying to do a deep dive to find every little thing that is or could be wrong with the show/MCU with irl physics instead of realizing this is a god damn comic book. Yeah, some stuff will still be rooted in reality, but youre getting upset at things that arent realistic in a universe where New York City was almost destroyed by aliens, an entire town/nation was almost meteored into the Earth, theres magic sorcerers, and half the fucking world disappeared and came back 5 years later. All of this is why no one will take your complaints seriously because theyre dumb fucking complaints. Why didnt NYPD arrest Hawkeye for attacking the literal mafia????? Not realistic!!!! Thats basically your complaints. And youre doing it with the Im totally a amateur cinematographer, so I know what Im talking about vibe to it. --- http://i.imgur.com/jWVrg9U.gif http://i.imgur.com/g2efUtT.jpg http://i.imgur.com/5dOwhaP.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LVdqu8J.gif Go Cougs and M's RIP SMV 2/25/21 <cite>sktgamer_13dude posted [p:961133433] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>You seemed to miss the point that its a comic book show, not based on real life, and the Track Suits had been trying to kill them the entire week. Its like youre trying to do a deep dive to find every little thing that is or could be wrong with the show/MCU with irl physics instead of realizing this is a god damn comic book. Yeah, some stuff will still be rooted in reality, but youre getting upset at things that arent realistic in a universe where New York City was almost destroyed by aliens, an entire town/nation was almost meteored into the Earth, theres magic sorcerers, and half the fucking world disappeared and came back 5 years later. All of this is why no one will take your complaints seriously because theyre dumb fucking complaints. Why didnt NYPD arrest Hawkeye for attacking the literal mafia????? Not realistic!!!! Thats basically your complaints. And youre doing it with the Im totally a amateur cinematographer, so I know what Im talking about vibe to it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
lolife67 12/22/21 2:54:24 PM #74:	joe40001 posted... I'm not saying it's horrible and ruins everything, but them causing severe injury (if not some death) to 400 people juxtaposes very weird with the girl later being like "this is a country of laws, and you can't murder." You are aware that self-defense is different than cold-blooded murder, right? I'm sure Kate does. <cite>lolife67 posted [p:961133475] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>joe40001 posted... </cite> <quote>I'm not saying it's horrible and ruins everything, but them causing severe injury (if not some death) to 400 people juxtaposes very weird with the girl later being like "this is a country of laws, and you can't murder."</quote>You are aware that self-defense is different than cold-blooded murder, right? I'm sure Kate does. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pegusus123456 12/22/21 2:55:33 PM #75:	joe40001 posted... If there are literally no stakes and no rules, then what do you just fucking clap at the pretty colors on screen? Fucking yes, lol. For the same reason I can enjoy an episode of Friends without wondering why none of them were killed in 9/11 or no one in Gravity Falls has a meth addiction. I set my expectations for what I'm watching. The MCU has never been Invincible. --- http://i.imgur.com/Er6TT.gif http://i.imgur.com/Er6TT.gif http://i.imgur.com/Er6TT.gif So? I deeded to some gay porn. It doesn't mean anything. - Patty_Fleur <cite>pegusus123456 posted [p:961133505] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>joe40001 posted... </cite> <quote>If there are literally no stakes and no rules, then what do you just fucking clap at the pretty colors on screen?</quote>Fucking yes, lol. For the same reason I can enjoy an episode of Friends without wondering why none of them were killed in 9/11 or no one in Gravity Falls has a meth addiction. I set my expectations for what I'm watching. The MCU has never been Invincible. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Akagami_Shanks 12/22/21 3:00:17 PM #76:	this guy is complaining about anything lmao "Why are they defending themselves against people trying to kill them?" "There are no stakes in this show" just move on buddy --- yes <cite>Akagami_Shanks posted [p:961133637] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>this guy is complaining about anything lmao "Why are they defending themselves against people trying to kill them?" "There are no stakes in this show" just move on buddy </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 12/22/21 3:30:27 PM #77:	sktgamer_13dude posted... You seemed to miss the point that its a comic book show, not based on real life, and the Track Suits had been trying to kill them the entire week. Its like youre trying to do a deep dive to find every little thing that is or could be wrong with the show/MCU with irl physics instead of realizing this is a god damn comic book. Yeah, some stuff will still be rooted in reality, but youre getting upset at things that arent realistic in a universe where New York City was almost destroyed by aliens, an entire town/nation was almost meteored into the Earth, theres magic sorcerers, and half the fucking world disappeared and came back 5 years later. All of this is why no one will take your complaints seriously because theyre dumb fucking complaints. Why didnt NYPD arrest Hawkeye for attacking the literal mafia????? Not realistic!!!! Thats basically your complaints. And youre doing it with the Im totally a amateur cinematographer, so I know what Im talking about vibe to it. You fundamentally misunderstand my argument. Firstly, you can take alien invasion seriously, or any of the other fantastic threats the avengers have encountered seriously, Infinity War was crazy stakes AF but they took that serioulsy. Secondly, it doesn't have to be realistic, but it has to have rules. Are these people in any danger? Is anybody in danger? What if anything can kill the heroes, what if anything can kill the villains? I can watch Lord of the Rings just fine even though it is very "not-realistic" because it is internally consistent. But bad Marvel (which is increasingly what disney marvel is becoming) doesn't seem to have rules. The people literally pointing guns at you and shooting at you also crack jokes at and with you and would be mortified if a single shot they fired connected and blew your head off. So then are they trying to kill you or not? lolife67 posted... You are aware that self-defense is different than cold-blooded murder, right? I'm sure Kate does. Were the 20 people who got gutted by sword guy as they ran by "self-defense"? I can live with a marvel that is baby-logic where injuries are like home alone and idea complexity is maxes out at power rangers level. But if disney-marvel keeps insisting on going in that direction then you are going to lose anybody who cares about plot. If there are no stakes and no rules, it's bad writing. So far this (particularly the last episode) and "falcon and winter soldier" (plus the black widow movie which was horrible in this regard, are recent instances of disney/marvel just not putting the effort in like they used to. You can have well written kid friendly shows about alien invasions, and you can have shitty written R-rated domestic drama avant garde indie films about the human condition. Writing quality doesn't map to subject matter, so I don't know why some of you are comfortable giving a pass to Marvel lowering it's writing and "taking their universe seriously" standards. I might make a video essay about this because some are you aren't getting it, but ~~if you kick somebody out a flying plane,~~ or if you shrink them to rodent size and then a rodent eating owl caries them off, or if you freeze off their limbs, or if you blow them up, or if you slice their gut with a sword, ~~or if you fire rockets at their face, or if you collapse an avalanche on their building~~ you don't get to say "aww no, they are totally fine" and then just have your writers make it so we never see anybody die so it's ok. You did easily fatal attacks at them, it's bad writing to pretend that you didn't. BUT I can live with that if we all admit they live in a looney toons "none of this is serious at all" world. But then 1. The show loses most of it's stakes, so if the audience is supposed to be invested in the theoretical danger, that's out the window. And 2. You lose the right to do any "ok but this is serious now." moments. If falcon can kill 27 people, and Hawkeye/Hawkgirl can injure or potentially kill (but mostly in self defense) like 200. We don't get to pretend this is "realistic" or that it has stakes anymore. "Yeah I shot a bomb arrow at a car and the car exploded into a fireball but that car was chasing us and so it is self defense plus I knew the writers would make it the kind of car exploding fireball that flips the car but not the kind that burns everybody alive inside even though it logically obviously totally could have been... PS THIS IS SERIOUS TV." Daredevil was not bad writing baby tv, plenty of things in Marvel history were not bad writing baby tv, so forgive me for being upset that some of these series/movies feel totally ok becoming that. It seems like the best argument against me is "don't hold this to a higher standard than bad writing baby tv" but Marvel wasn't always like this, and has potential to be much better, so as long as I'm a sucker enough to keep getting roped into the shows, I still might be frustrated if they keep shirking the responsibility to write with respect to the source material or the audience. A show like Avatar is probably perceived as more "kiddie" by some of you defending this, but I promise that wipes the floor with some of these shows when it comes to internal logic and respectful intelligent writing. Family friendly =/= badly written. Look at Iron Man 1, Avengers 1, Infinity War, The Winter Soldier, or plenty of other Marvel. They are fantastical without being bad writing baby movies. You can keep the same tone and ideas but execute the writing and stakes much better, they either didn't try or some execs at disney thought making it make sense to people over the age of 10 would make it "not kid friendly enough" (it wouldn't). --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori http://i.imgur.com/TheGsZ9.gif <cite>joe40001 posted [p:961134395] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>sktgamer_13dude posted... </cite> <quote>You seemed to miss the point that its a comic book show, not based on real life, and the Track Suits had been trying to kill them the entire week. Its like youre trying to do a deep dive to find every little thing that is or could be wrong with the show/MCU with irl physics instead of realizing this is a god damn comic book. Yeah, some stuff will still be rooted in reality, but youre getting upset at things that arent realistic in a universe where New York City was almost destroyed by aliens, an entire town/nation was almost meteored into the Earth, theres magic sorcerers, and half the fucking world disappeared and came back 5 years later. All of this is why no one will take your complaints seriously because theyre dumb fucking complaints. Why didnt NYPD arrest Hawkeye for attacking the literal mafia????? Not realistic!!!! Thats basically your complaints. And youre doing it with the Im totally a amateur cinematographer, so I know what Im talking about vibe to it.</quote> You fundamentally misunderstand my argument. Firstly, you can take alien invasion seriously, or any of the other fantastic threats the avengers have encountered seriously, Infinity War was crazy stakes AF but they took that serioulsy. Secondly, it doesn't have to be realistic, but it has to have rules. Are these people in any danger? Is anybody in danger? What if anything can kill the heroes, what if anything can kill the villains? I can watch Lord of the Rings just fine even though it is very "not-realistic" because it is internally consistent. But bad Marvel (which is increasingly what disney marvel is becoming) doesn't seem to have rules. The people literally pointing guns at you and shooting at you also crack jokes at and with you and would be mortified if a single shot they fired connected and blew your head off. So then are they trying to kill you or not? lolife67 posted... </cite> <quote>You are aware that self-defense is different than cold-blooded murder, right? I'm sure Kate does.</quote> Were the 20 people who got gutted by sword guy as they ran by "self-defense"? I can live with a marvel that is baby-logic where injuries are like home alone and idea complexity is maxes out at power rangers level. But if disney-marvel keeps insisting on going in that direction then you are going to lose anybody who cares about plot. If there are no stakes and no rules, it's bad writing. So far this (particularly the last episode) and "falcon and winter soldier" (plus the black widow movie which was horrible in this regard, are recent instances of disney/marvel just not putting the effort in like they used to. You can have well written kid friendly shows about alien invasions, and you can have shitty written R-rated domestic drama avant garde indie films about the human condition. Writing quality doesn't map to subject matter, so I don't know why some of you are comfortable giving a pass to Marvel lowering it's writing and "taking their universe seriously" standards. I might make a video essay about this because some are you aren't getting it, but if you kick somebody out a flying plane, or if you shrink them to rodent size and then a rodent eating owl caries them off, or if you freeze off their limbs, or if you blow them up, or if you slice their gut with a sword, or if you fire rockets at their face, or if you collapse an avalanche on their building you don't get to say "aww no, they are totally fine" and then just have your writers make it so we never see anybody die so it's ok. You did easily fatal attacks at them, it's bad writing to pretend that you didn't. BUT I can live with that if we all admit they live in a looney toons "none of this is serious at all" world. But then 1. The show loses most of it's stakes, so if the audience is supposed to be invested in the theoretical danger, that's out the window. And 2. You lose the right to do any "ok but this is serious now." moments. If falcon can kill 27 people, and Hawkeye/Hawkgirl can injure or potentially kill (but mostly in self defense) like 200. We don't get to pretend this is "realistic" or that it has stakes anymore. "Yeah I shot a bomb arrow at a car and the car exploded into a fireball but that car was chasing us and so it is self defense plus I knew the writers would make it the kind of car exploding fireball that flips the car but not the kind that burns everybody alive inside even though it logically obviously totally could have been... PS THIS IS SERIOUS TV." Daredevil was not bad writing baby tv, plenty of things in Marvel history were not bad writing baby tv, so forgive me for being upset that some of these series/movies feel totally ok becoming that. It seems like the best argument against me is "don't hold this to a higher standard than bad writing baby tv" but Marvel wasn't always like this, and has potential to be much better, so as long as I'm a sucker enough to keep getting roped into the shows, I still might be frustrated if they keep shirking the responsibility to write with respect to the source material or the audience. A show like Avatar is probably perceived as more "kiddie" by some of you defending this, but I promise that wipes the floor with some of these shows when it comes to internal logic and respectful intelligent writing. Family friendly =/= badly written. Look at Iron Man 1, Avengers 1, Infinity War, The Winter Soldier, or plenty of other Marvel. They are fantastical without being bad writing baby movies. You can keep the same tone and ideas but execute the writing and stakes much better, they either didn't try or some execs at disney thought making it make sense to people over the age of 10 would make it "not kid friendly enough" (it wouldn't). </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
lolife67 12/22/21 3:33:58 PM #78:	joe40001 posted... Were the 20 people who got gutted by sword guy as they ran by "self-defense"? Yes since they were in the process of trying to attack him and others. How is this even a question? Lol <cite>lolife67 posted [p:961134477] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>joe40001 posted... </cite> <quote>Were the 20 people who got gutted by sword guy as they ran by "self-defense"?</quote>Yes since they were in the process of trying to attack him and others. How is this even a question? Lol </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 12/22/21 3:34:08 PM #79:	pegusus123456 posted... Fucking yes, lol. For the same reason I can enjoy an episode of Friends without wondering why none of them were killed in 9/11 or no one in Gravity Falls has a meth addiction. I set my expectations for what I'm watching. The MCU has never been Invincible. But it used to be SOMETHING. Friends has stakes and rules, they are different than other things, but you couldn't have an episode of friends were all the friends were literally just replaced with dead fish sitting in the friends spots and say to anybody who complains "dude, it's just friends, don't take it so seriously, it's not meant to be realistic". Shows of all kinds for all audiences need rules and stakes, they don't have to be the same rules and stakes, but they have to exist. Otherwise, by definition, you don't have a narrative. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori http://i.imgur.com/TheGsZ9.gif <cite>joe40001 posted [p:961134482] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>pegusus123456 posted... </cite> <quote>Fucking yes, lol. For the same reason I can enjoy an episode of Friends without wondering why none of them were killed in 9/11 or no one in Gravity Falls has a meth addiction. I set my expectations for what I'm watching. The MCU has never been Invincible.</quote> But it used to be SOMETHING. Friends has stakes and rules, they are different than other things, but you couldn't have an episode of friends were all the friends were literally just replaced with dead fish sitting in the friends spots and say to anybody who complains "dude, it's just friends, don't take it so seriously, it's not meant to be realistic". Shows of all kinds for all audiences need rules and stakes, they don't have to be the same rules and stakes, but they have to exist. Otherwise, by definition, you don't have a narrative. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
sktgamer_13dude 12/22/21 3:39:28 PM #80:	joe40001 posted... Secondly, it doesn't have to be realistic, but it has to have rules. Are these people in any danger? Is anybody in danger? What if anything can kill the heroes, what if anything can kill the villains? I can watch Lord of the Rings just fine even though it is very "not-realistic" because it is internally consistent. But bad Marvel (which is increasingly what disney marvel is becoming) doesn't seem to have rules. The people literally pointing guns at you and shooting at you also crack jokes at and with you and would be mortified if a single shot they fired connected and blew your head off. So then are they trying to kill you or not? They are literally being surrounded by people that have been trying to kill them for the entire week. And the people surrounding them is literally called the Track Suit Mafia. You're acting as if Hawkeye and Kate just starting shooting arrows at anyone in their vicinity, even if it was just passerbys asking if they were ok after the literal tree fell into the ice rink. The people Jack were swording were all actively trying to attack him and the LARPers too. Like, you're just complaining about something popular to complain and feel better about yourself. There are actual complaints you could make about the show that don't boil down to "why didn't NYPD arrest Hawkeye!??????????????" which is a dumb fucking question in the first place. You could make actual complaints about things like how the world went to completely normal (or you know, close-to it looked like) after the Blip and Endgame. Shit like that is an actual question that is an actual complaint. Things like "I didn't like how it was unrealistic that the superhero being chased by the mafia for a week shot arrows at people that didn't actively have guns pointed at their head, hand on the trigger. Gosh, won't NYPD do something about this?????" is just complaining to complain and that's why I'm dunking on your bullshit. You're trying to be shittier version of UR where you take opposite takes on popular things to get the attention you were never given while growing up. --- http://i.imgur.com/jWVrg9U.gif http://i.imgur.com/g2efUtT.jpg http://i.imgur.com/5dOwhaP.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LVdqu8J.gif Go Cougs and M's RIP SMV 2/25/21 <cite>sktgamer_13dude posted [p:961134620] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>joe40001 posted...</cite> <quote>Secondly, it doesn't have to be realistic, but it has to have rules. Are these people in any danger? Is anybody in danger? What if anything can kill the heroes, what if anything can kill the villains? I can watch Lord of the Rings just fine even though it is very "not-realistic" because it is internally consistent. But bad Marvel (which is increasingly what disney marvel is becoming) doesn't seem to have rules. The people literally pointing guns at you and shooting at you also crack jokes at and with you and would be mortified if a single shot they fired connected and blew your head off. So then are they trying to kill you or not?</quote> They are literally being surrounded by people that have been trying to kill them for the entire week. And the people surrounding them is literally called the Track Suit Mafia. You're acting as if Hawkeye and Kate just starting shooting arrows at anyone in their vicinity, even if it was just passerbys asking if they were ok after the literal tree fell into the ice rink. The people Jack were swording were all actively trying to attack him and the LARPers too. Like, you're just complaining about something popular to complain and feel better about yourself. There are actual complaints you could make about the show that don't boil down to "why didn't NYPD arrest Hawkeye!??????????????" which is a dumb fucking question in the first place. You could make actual complaints about things like how the world went to completely normal (or you know, close-to it looked like) after the Blip and Endgame. Shit like that is an actual question that is an actual complaint. Things like "I didn't like how it was unrealistic that the superhero being chased by the mafia for a week shot arrows at people that didn't actively have guns pointed at their head, hand on the trigger. Gosh, won't NYPD do something about this?????" is just complaining to complain and that's why I'm dunking on your bullshit. You're trying to be shittier version of UR where you take opposite takes on popular things to get the attention you were never given while growing up.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 12/22/21 3:42:41 PM #81:	lolife67 posted... Yes since they were in the process of trying to attack him and others. How is this even a question? Lol ??? Lol how is that an answer? "A guy was running by me in a mask, he clearly wasn't looking to attack me, so I gutted him with a sword because he looked like other people who were intending to attack others." That's not how self-defense works, even in baby logic If your argument made sense, Hawkgirl's mom should be like "yeah I stabbed old dude, but I'm pretty sure he was on his way to murder somebody else.", self-defense, right? The only valid defense to any of this seems like "you know how you used to turn your brain off a little for marvel movies, welp the writers have gotten much lazier now, so you need to turn it off WAAAAAAAY more." I mean I guess you admitted as such when you acknowledged that the show didn't have stakes or rules for the audience to invest in. If you don't have stakes/rules then you don't have a narrative, and if you don't have a narrative then I truly don't understand how people can enjoy it. I'm upset because it was close to being good but they just put the effort in on the writing/directing to make it good. If you were always on board with a show that didn't make sense and you were ok with sloppyness and pretty colors clapping then why do you even take issue with my complaint? You don't think I'm wrong, you just think I expected too much when I expected it to have internal logic. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori http://i.imgur.com/TheGsZ9.gif <cite>joe40001 posted [p:961134701] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>lolife67 posted... </cite> <quote>Yes since they were in the process of trying to attack him and others. How is this even a question? Lol</quote> ??? Lol how is that an answer? "A guy was running by me in a mask, he clearly wasn't looking to attack me, so I gutted him with a sword because he looked like other people who were intending to attack others." That's not how self-defense works, even in baby logic If your argument made sense, Hawkgirl's mom should be like "yeah I stabbed old dude, but I'm pretty sure he was on his way to murder somebody else.", self-defense, right? The only valid defense to any of this seems like "you know how you used to turn your brain off a little for marvel movies, welp the writers have gotten much lazier now, so you need to turn it off WAAAAAAAY more." I mean I guess you admitted as such when you acknowledged that the show didn't have stakes or rules for the audience to invest in. If you don't have stakes/rules then you don't have a narrative, and if you don't have a narrative then I truly don't understand how people can enjoy it. I'm upset because it was close to being good but they just put the effort in on the writing/directing to make it good. If you were always on board with a show that didn't make sense and you were ok with sloppyness and pretty colors clapping then why do you even take issue with my complaint? You don't think I'm wrong, you just think I expected too much when I expected it to have internal logic. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
lolife67 12/22/21 3:45:09 PM #82:	joe40001 posted... ??? Lol how is that an answer? "A guy was running by me in a mask, he clearly wasn't looking to attack me, so I gutted him with a sword because he looked like other people who were intending to attack others." Huh? They weren't just running by him. They were all in tracksuits and attacking him, Kate and the LARPers. You know this. And your question was about why Kate made a distinction between her mom and the others that were hurt/killed. And yes, we all think you're wrong and being willfully ignorant at this point, for some reason. <cite>lolife67 posted [p:961134762] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>joe40001 posted... </cite> <quote>??? Lol how is that an answer? "A guy was running by me in a mask, he clearly wasn't looking to attack me, so I gutted him with a sword because he looked like other people who were intending to attack others."</quote>Huh? They weren't just running by him. They were all in tracksuits and attacking him, Kate and the LARPers. You know this. And your question was about why Kate made a distinction between her mom and the others that were hurt/killed. And yes, we all think you're wrong and being willfully ignorant at this point, for some reason. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
sktgamer_13dude 12/22/21 3:45:20 PM #83:	joe40001 posted... A guy was running by me in a mask who was part of the mafia that literally took sniper shots at the party and then crashed said Christmas party trying to kill Hawkeye, Kate, and Kate's mom because Kingpin told us to, got stabbed" ftfy --- http://i.imgur.com/jWVrg9U.gif http://i.imgur.com/g2efUtT.jpg http://i.imgur.com/5dOwhaP.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LVdqu8J.gif Go Cougs and M's RIP SMV 2/25/21 <cite>sktgamer_13dude posted [p:961134767] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>joe40001 posted...</cite> <quote>A guy was running by me in a mask who was part of the mafia that literally took sniper shots at the party and then crashed said Christmas party trying to kill Hawkeye, Kate, and Kate's mom because Kingpin told us to, got stabbed"</quote> ftfy</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 12/22/21 3:52:34 PM #84:	sktgamer_13dude posted... They are literally being surrounded by people that have been trying to kill them for the entire week. And the people surrounding them is literally called the Track Suit Mafia. You're acting as if Hawkeye and Kate just starting shooting arrows at anyone in their vicinity, even if it was just passerbys asking if they were ok after the literal tree fell into the ice rink. The people Jack were swording were all actively trying to attack him and the LARPers too. Like, you're just complaining about something popular to complain and feel better about yourself. There are actual complaints you could make about the show that don't boil down to "why didn't NYPD arrest Hawkeye!??????????????" which is a dumb fucking question in the first place. You could make actual complaints about things like how the world went to completely normal (or you know, close-to it looked like) after the Blip and Endgame. Shit like that is an actual question that is an actual complaint. Things like "I didn't like how it was unrealistic that the superhero being chased by the mafia for a week shot arrows at people that didn't actively have guns pointed at their head, hand on the trigger. Gosh, won't NYPD do something about this?????" is just complaining to complain and that's why I'm dunking on your bullshit. You're trying to be shittier version of UR where you take opposite takes on popular things to get the attention you were never given while growing up. Doing personal attacks when somebody has an opinion you don't like/understand is not a good look. Your fellow defender of the show, pegusus, just said yes to "there are literally no stakes and no rules, then what do you just fucking clap at the pretty colors on screen?". Shouldn't a show have stakes/rules? How serious is any of this? If your answer is "not serious at all, it's almost all bullshit" I can say "ok then the writing checks out", but I don't see why it's worth defending. And if your argument is like "take it as seriously as Iron Man 1, so fairly realistic, fairly serious", then yeah it's letting down the audience when the level of danger/stakes feels the same as "home alone". --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori http://i.imgur.com/TheGsZ9.gif <cite>joe40001 posted [p:961134943] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>sktgamer_13dude posted... </cite> <quote>They are literally being surrounded by people that have been trying to kill them for the entire week. And the people surrounding them is literally called the Track Suit Mafia. You're acting as if Hawkeye and Kate just starting shooting arrows at anyone in their vicinity, even if it was just passerbys asking if they were ok after the literal tree fell into the ice rink. The people Jack were swording were all actively trying to attack him and the LARPers too. Like, you're just complaining about something popular to complain and feel better about yourself. There are actual complaints you could make about the show that don't boil down to "why didn't NYPD arrest Hawkeye!??????????????" which is a dumb fucking question in the first place. You could make actual complaints about things like how the world went to completely normal (or you know, close-to it looked like) after the Blip and Endgame. Shit like that is an actual question that is an actual complaint. Things like "I didn't like how it was unrealistic that the superhero being chased by the mafia for a week shot arrows at people that didn't actively have guns pointed at their head, hand on the trigger. Gosh, won't NYPD do something about this?????" is just complaining to complain and that's why I'm dunking on your bullshit. You're trying to be shittier version of UR where you take opposite takes on popular things to get the attention you were never given while growing up.</quote> Doing personal attacks when somebody has an opinion you don't like/understand is not a good look. Your fellow defender of the show, pegusus, just said yes to "there are literally no stakes and no rules, then what do you just fucking clap at the pretty colors on screen?". Shouldn't a show have stakes/rules? How serious is any of this? If your answer is "not serious at all, it's almost all bullshit" I can say "ok then the writing checks out", but I don't see why it's worth defending. And if your argument is like "take it as seriously as Iron Man 1, so fairly realistic, fairly serious", then yeah it's letting down the audience when the level of danger/stakes feels the same as "home alone". </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 12/22/21 3:54:30 PM #85:	sktgamer_13dude posted... ftfy "Officer as he ran by me he was sorta dressed like a sniper I had no chance to see who shot from 200 feet away, so, you know, I killed him." --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori http://i.imgur.com/TheGsZ9.gif <cite>joe40001 posted [p:961134981] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>sktgamer_13dude posted... </cite> <quote>ftfy</quote> "Officer as he ran by me he was sorta dressed like a sniper I had no chance to see who shot from 200 feet away, so, you know, I killed him." </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gikos 12/22/21 3:59:05 PM #86:	imo i think some of fisk's tanking may have been due to his suits iirc in daredevil fisk had a special suit that was durably enough that matt couldn't stab him and daredevil found the guy who made it and got his new suit from him maybe he had more or found someone to make a new ones for him perhaps power broker and as for his reason of not killing kat maybe i am over reading into it too much but i felt he saw himself in her effort to protect her mother being killed and might have triggered a flashback to his past again i could be wrong so this is how i took that scene overall i enjoyed this show and looking forward to echo to see him back and hopefully see daredevil as well --- "You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty." - Sacha Guitry (1885-1957) <cite>gikos posted [p:961135075] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>imo i think some of fisk's tanking may have been due to his suits iirc in daredevil fisk had a special suit that was durably enough that matt couldn't stab him and daredevil found the guy who made it and got his new suit from him maybe he had more or found someone to make a new ones for him perhaps power broker and as for his reason of not killing kat maybe i am over reading into it too much but i felt he saw himself in her effort to protect her mother being killed and might have triggered a flashback to his past again i could be wrong so this is how i took that scene overall i enjoyed this show and looking forward to echo to see him back and hopefully see daredevil as well </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 12/22/21 4:03:46 PM #87:	lolife67 posted... Huh? They weren't just running by him. They were all in tracksuits and attacking him, Kate and the LARPers. You know this. And your question was about why Kate made a distinction between her mom and the others that were hurt/killed. Some were just running by, and also at the point that he kill one, can't any of the other track suit guys argue self defense? It's kinda ridiculous that the track suit mafia (many of which we are supposed to find likable as an audience) are a-ok to be murdered because we as an audience know that in general we think they are trying to kill hawkeye. Even though we've never seen them kill anybody IIRC. And the point isn't about litigating individual moments, just being frustrated by how sloppy and underdeveloped the logic is. Most of the first 5 episodes felt like something that could exist in the same universe as "Iron Man", the last episode felt like it would exist better in the universe of "Home Alone", "Looney Toons", or "Power Rangers". You can like that if you want, but you stop taking your writing seriously, I as an audience member will take issue. And yes, we all think you're wrong and being willfully ignorant at this point, for some reason. Plenty of people had issues with the writing quality, they just left rather than engage. Maybe I should have as well. But it frustrates me to see lazy writing out of Marvel, Marvel can be better. MacadamianNut3 posted... Did we just watch a show where arrows created a magnetic field strong enough to yeet guns from people's hands, two people with bows avoided getting shot by any of the 100+ people surrounding them, and all of the explosions and sonic booms happening on a small ice rink didn't affect the two protagonists at all Why even watch Marvel stuff if you're gonna complain about realism That's kinda my point though. Marvel can take itself seriously, and it's better when it does. Infinity war is actually good. But this was basically looney toons, and I guess I'm upset because I thought they were selling themselves as something more serious than that. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori http://i.imgur.com/TheGsZ9.gif <cite>joe40001 posted [p:961135184] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>lolife67 posted... </cite> <quote>Huh? They weren't just running by him. They were all in tracksuits and attacking him, Kate and the LARPers. You know this. And your question was about why Kate made a distinction between her mom and the others that were hurt/killed.</quote> Some were just running by, and also at the point that he kill one, can't any of the other track suit guys argue self defense? It's kinda ridiculous that the track suit mafia (many of which we are supposed to find likable as an audience) are a-ok to be murdered because we as an audience know that in general we think they are trying to kill hawkeye. Even though we've never seen them kill anybody IIRC. And the point isn't about litigating individual moments, just being frustrated by how sloppy and underdeveloped the logic is. Most of the first 5 episodes felt like something that could exist in the same universe as "Iron Man", the last episode felt like it would exist better in the universe of "Home Alone", "Looney Toons", or "Power Rangers". You can like that if you want, but you stop taking your writing seriously, I as an audience member will take issue. <quote>And yes, we all think you're wrong and being willfully ignorant at this point, for some reason.</quote> Plenty of people had issues with the writing quality, they just left rather than engage. Maybe I should have as well. But it frustrates me to see lazy writing out of Marvel, Marvel can be better. MacadamianNut3 posted... </cite> <quote>Did we just watch a show where arrows created a magnetic field strong enough to yeet guns from people's hands, two people with bows avoided getting shot by any of the 100+ people surrounding them, and all of the explosions and sonic booms happening on a small ice rink didn't affect the two protagonists at all Why even watch Marvel stuff if you're gonna complain about realism</quote> That's kinda my point though. Marvel can take itself seriously, and it's better when it does. Infinity war is actually good. But this was basically looney toons, and I guess I'm upset because I thought they were selling themselves as something more serious than that. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 12/22/21 4:07:01 PM #88:	gikos posted... imo i think some of fisk's tanking may have been due to his suits iirc in daredevil fisk had a special suit that was durably enough that matt couldn't stab him and daredevil found the guy who made it and got his new suit from him maybe he had more or found someone to make a new ones for him perhaps power broker I had a similar thought. But considering how cartoonish some of the other stuff was I feel a bit like I might be being generous by inferring that on their behalf. I could've definitely excused it if it was the most ridiculous thing that happened in the finale. and as for his reason of not killing kat maybe i am over reading into it too much but i felt he saw himself in her effort to protect her mother being killed and might have triggered a flashback to his past Yeah, I buy that too. Fisk isn't really the killing kids type. again i could be wrong so this is how i took that scene overall i enjoyed this show and looking forward to echo to see him back and hopefully see daredevil as well It would be cool to see him and DD in the greater MCU but written directed by people like the Russos who take the shit seriously. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori http://i.imgur.com/TheGsZ9.gif <cite>joe40001 posted [p:961135263] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>gikos posted... </cite> <quote>imo i think some of fisk's tanking may have been due to his suits iirc in daredevil fisk had a special suit that was durably enough that matt couldn't stab him and daredevil found the guy who made it and got his new suit from him maybe he had more or found someone to make a new ones for him perhaps power broker</quote> I had a similar thought. But considering how cartoonish some of the other stuff was I feel a bit like I might be being generous by inferring that on their behalf. I could've definitely excused it if it was the most ridiculous thing that happened in the finale. <quote>and as for his reason of not killing kat maybe i am over reading into it too much but i felt he saw himself in her effort to protect her mother being killed and might have triggered a flashback to his past </quote> Yeah, I buy that too. Fisk isn't really the killing kids type. <quote>again i could be wrong so this is how i took that scene overall i enjoyed this show and looking forward to echo to see him back and hopefully see daredevil as well</quote> It would be cool to see him and DD in the greater MCU but written directed by people like the Russos who take the shit seriously. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
sktgamer_13dude 12/22/21 4:09:01 PM #89:	joe40001 posted... "Officer as he ran by me he was sorta dressed like a sniper I had no chance to see who shot from 200 feet away, so, you know, I killed him." Dude, youre arguing about mafia goons being attacked when they crashed a party trying to kill 3 people. Shut the fuck up, youre making yourself look stupider and stupider with every post you make. Just cut your losses, but thats not your shitty gimmick so I guess Im arguing with a brick wall. --- http://i.imgur.com/jWVrg9U.gif http://i.imgur.com/g2efUtT.jpg http://i.imgur.com/5dOwhaP.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LVdqu8J.gif Go Cougs and M's RIP SMV 2/25/21 <cite>sktgamer_13dude posted [p:961135306] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>joe40001 posted...</cite> <quote> "Officer as he ran by me he was sorta dressed like a sniper I had no chance to see who shot from 200 feet away, so, you know, I killed him." </quote> Dude, youre arguing about mafia goons being attacked when they crashed a party trying to kill 3 people. Shut the fuck up, youre making yourself look stupider and stupider with every post you make. Just cut your losses, but thats not your shitty gimmick so I guess Im arguing with a brick wall.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MaxEffingBemis 12/22/21 4:09:49 PM #90:	Significantly less posts on page 2 once I put that guy on ignore whew --- She took pity on me, horizontally, but most likely because of my band <cite>MaxEffingBemis posted [p:961135324] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>Significantly less posts on page 2 once I put that guy on ignore whew </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
dummy420 12/22/21 4:13:51 PM #91:	Ok I havent finished but Yolanda is one of the best things to happen to MCU. --- Trying is the first step towards failure, so just dont give it a shot and you cant dissapoint. <cite>dummy420 posted [p:961135404] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>Ok I havent finished but Yolanda is one of the best things to happen to MCU. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Holy_Cloud105 12/22/21 4:14:18 PM #92:	Kingpin is basically superhuman. You guys have to remember he's a Spider-Man villain and he needs to not get knocked out or killed instantly by Spidey punching him one time. --- Currently Playing: Tales of Arise and Lost Judgment <cite>Holy_Cloud105 posted [p:961135418] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>Kingpin is basically superhuman. You guys have to remember he's a Spider-Man villain and he needs to not get knocked out or killed instantly by Spidey punching him one time. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
lolife67 12/22/21 4:25:15 PM #93:	joe40001 posted... Some were just running by, and also at the point that he kill one, can't any of the other track suit guys argue self defense? It's kinda ridiculous that the track suit mafia (many of which we are supposed to find likable as an audience) are a-ok to be murdered because we as an audience know that in general we think they are trying to kill hawkeye. Even though we've never seen them kill anybody IIRC. And the point isn't about litigating individual moments, just being frustrated by how sloppy and underdeveloped the logic is. Most of the first 5 episodes felt like something that could exist in the same universe as "Iron Man", the last episode felt like it would exist better in the universe of "Home Alone", "Looney Toons", or "Power Rangers". You can like that if you want, but you stop taking your writing seriously, I as an audience member will take issue. You're moving goalposts. You asked why Kate was okay with those killings but not her mom's, remember? That answer is self-defense. If you're now asking why didn't the cops arrest Swordsman, the answer is that Clint, a well-known hero, vouched for him. It's not a plot hole or anything to really question. Again, you're being obtuse here. joe40001 posted... also at the point that he kill one, can't any of the other track suit guys argue self defense? Oh and to address this idiotic point, the answer is "No" since they were in the act of committing a crime. <cite>lolife67 posted [p:961135672] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>joe40001 posted... </cite> <quote>Some were just running by, and also at the point that he kill one, can't any of the other track suit guys argue self defense? It's kinda ridiculous that the track suit mafia (many of which we are supposed to find likable as an audience) are a-ok to be murdered because we as an audience know that in general we think they are trying to kill hawkeye. Even though we've never seen them kill anybody IIRC. And the point isn't about litigating individual moments, just being frustrated by how sloppy and underdeveloped the logic is. Most of the first 5 episodes felt like something that could exist in the same universe as "Iron Man", the last episode felt like it would exist better in the universe of "Home Alone", "Looney Toons", or "Power Rangers". You can like that if you want, but you stop taking your writing seriously, I as an audience member will take issue.</quote>You're moving goalposts. You asked why Kate was okay with those killings but not her mom's, remember? That answer is self-defense. If you're now asking why didn't the cops arrest Swordsman, the answer is that Clint, a well-known hero, vouched for him. It's not a plot hole or anything to really question. Again, you're being obtuse here. joe40001 posted... </cite> <quote>also at the point that he kill one, can't any of the other track suit guys argue self defense?</quote>Oh and to address this idiotic point, the answer is "No" since they were in the act of committing a crime. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
sktgamer_13dude 12/22/21 4:25:36 PM #94:	Holy_Cloud105 posted... Kingpin is basically superhuman. You guys have to remember he's a Spider-Man villain and he needs to not get knocked out or killed instantly by Spidey punching him one time. tbf, Spidey also pulls his punches and there was a story about it when Doc Oct took over his body and punched Scorpions (iirc) jaw off with ease. --- http://i.imgur.com/jWVrg9U.gif http://i.imgur.com/g2efUtT.jpg http://i.imgur.com/5dOwhaP.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LVdqu8J.gif Go Cougs and M's RIP SMV 2/25/21 <cite>sktgamer_13dude posted [p:961135680] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>Holy_Cloud105 posted...</cite> <quote>Kingpin is basically superhuman. You guys have to remember he's a Spider-Man villain and he needs to not get knocked out or killed instantly by Spidey punching him one time. </quote> tbf, Spidey also pulls his punches and there was a story about it when Doc Oct took over his body and punched Scorpions (iirc) jaw off with ease.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Holy_Cloud105 12/22/21 4:26:29 PM #95:	sktgamer_13dude posted... tbf, Spidey also pulls his punches and there was a story about it when Doc Oct took over his body and punched Scorpions (iirc) jaw off with ease. I know, but he still knocks out random thugs with one punch. If he were to knock Kingpin out like a random thug it'd be a bad look. --- Currently Playing: Tales of Arise and Lost Judgment <cite>Holy_Cloud105 posted [p:961135693] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>sktgamer_13dude posted... </cite> <quote>tbf, Spidey also pulls his punches and there was a story about it when Doc Oct took over his body and punched Scorpions (iirc) jaw off with ease.</quote>I know, but he still knocks out random thugs with one punch. If he were to knock Kingpin out like a random thug it'd be a bad look. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
sktgamer_13dude 12/22/21 4:27:38 PM #96:	Holy_Cloud105 posted... I know, but he still knocks out random thugs with one punch. If he were to knock Kingpin out like a random thug it'd be a bad look. Yeah true. But idk man, a guy named Kingpin sounds pretty low level to me /s --- http://i.imgur.com/jWVrg9U.gif http://i.imgur.com/g2efUtT.jpg http://i.imgur.com/5dOwhaP.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LVdqu8J.gif Go Cougs and M's RIP SMV 2/25/21 <cite>sktgamer_13dude posted [p:961135718] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>Holy_Cloud105 posted...</cite> <quote> I know, but he still knocks out random thugs with one punch. If he were to knock Kingpin out like a random thug it'd be a bad look. </quote> Yeah true. But idk man, a guy named Kingpin sounds pretty low level to me /s</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 12/22/21 4:41:47 PM #97:	I feel like I turned the corner from discussion to just being defensive and reactionary. And when that happens I tend to make my argument worse and also risk coming across as rude, and I don't want to do either of those. So first: If I upset any of you emotionally, I am sorry, it was not my goal. Secondly: This is my overall argument: This show as an outline had great potential, I am frustrated by the end result (particularly the finale) because they (in my estimation) did not take their writing or universe seriously. To the counter-arguments: "Marvel has never had rules or took any of this seriously." - I disagree, I think Winter Solider and Infinity War are examples of Marvel doing this well. This defense however doesn't bother me as much as this defense: "It doesn't matter if a show has stakes or internal logic." - This is something I disagree with strongly. From TFA to Star Trek: Picard to GoT S8, cheap lazy cash ins on something that used to have care behind it are bad and upsetting, we should demand more from creatives who are blessed with such an opportunity. And that's it, thanks for the hearty discussion, sorry if I was rude at all. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori http://i.imgur.com/TheGsZ9.gif <cite>joe40001 posted [p:961136013] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>I feel like I turned the corner from discussion to just being defensive and reactionary. And when that happens I tend to make my argument worse and also risk coming across as rude, and I don't want to do either of those. So first: If I upset any of you emotionally, I am sorry, it was not my goal. Secondly: This is my overall argument: This show as an outline had great potential, I am frustrated by the end result (particularly the finale) because they (in my estimation) did not take their writing or universe seriously. To the counter-arguments: "Marvel has never had rules or took any of this seriously." - I disagree, I think Winter Solider and Infinity War are examples of Marvel doing this well. This defense however doesn't bother me as much as this defense:"It doesn't matter if a show has stakes or internal logic." - This is something I disagree with strongly. From TFA to Star Trek: Picard to GoT S8, cheap lazy cash ins on something that used to have care behind it are bad and upsetting, we should demand more from creatives who are blessed with such an opportunity. And that's it, thanks for the hearty discussion, sorry if I was rude at all. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
realnifty1 12/22/21 4:42:55 PM #98:	Jesus, showing off that low IQ for real. <cite>realnifty1 posted [p:961136041] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>Jesus, showing off that low IQ for real. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DarthAragorn 12/22/21 4:50:42 PM #99:	Shut the fuck up joenumbers --- MSI MEG X570 Unify \| Ryzen 7 5800X \| 32GB DDR4-3600 \| RTX 3080 Samsung Odyssey G7 32" - 1440p, 240hz, GSync <cite>DarthAragorn posted [p:961136201] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>Shut the fuck up joenumbers </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 12/22/21 4:52:45 PM #100:	realnifty1 posted... Jesus, showing off that low IQ for real. Normally I don't go for this kind of bait, but since it's easy: I recently had an IQ test an have a very high IQ. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori http://i.imgur.com/TheGsZ9.gif <cite>joe40001 posted [p:961136240] in Hawkeye Ep... [t:79820989]...</cite> <quote>realnifty1 posted... </cite> <quote>Jesus, showing off that low IQ for real.</quote> Normally I don't go for this kind of bait, but since it's easy: I recently had an IQ test an have a very high IQ. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Hawkeye Episode 6 Finale Topic *SPOILERS* (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Hawkeye Episode 6 Finale Topic SPOILERS