Current Events > Should the unvaccinated be taxed more?

(+) Yeah! (+)

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Sure, sounds good

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Yeah 'cause fuck 'em.


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bump
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tax on income? nah. but they should definitely not have any covid-related medical expenses covered by their health insurance OR they should be required to pay a significantly higher premium (just like tobacco smokers)

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If we were to be going that route, then the obese should be taxed more.

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_Krave_ posted...

If we were to be going that route, then the obese should be taxed more.

yes, yes they should. they are making a conscious lifestyle choice with significant increases to health risks, just like tobacco smokers.

edit: the majority of obese people are that way due to a series of lifestyle choices.

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I don't mind if you're willing to taxs fat people as well. Which I'm pretty sure is never going to happen, so lol.

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Their health insurance will likely go up anyway.

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Giant_Aspirin posted...

yes, yes they should. they are making a conscious lifestyle choice with significant increases to health risks, just like tobacco smokers.

ITP: Obesity = conscious lifestyle choice

Tax smokers more too
Hell tax most young men. They do most of the stupid shit

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Fam_Fam posted...

ITP: Obesity = conscious lifestyle choice

the vast majority of the time it is. if you disagree please explain

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_Krave_ posted...

If we were to be going that route, then the obese should be taxed more.

I'm down.

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Giant_Aspirin posted...

the vast majority of the time it is. if you disagree please explain

Google: Causes of obesity

• Physical inactivity. Sedentary people burn fewer calories than people who are active. The National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES) showed a strong correlations between physical inactivity and weight gain in both sexes.
• Overeating. Overeating leads to weight gain, especially if the diet is high in fat. Foods high in fat or sugar (for example, fast food, fried food, and sweets) have high energy density (foods that have a lot of calories in a small amount of food). Epidemiologic studies have shown that diets high in fat contribute to weight gain.
• Genetics. A person is more likely to develop obesity if one or both parents are obese. Genetics also affect hormones involved in fat regulation. For example, one genetic cause of obesity is leptin deficiency. Leptin is a hormone produced in fat cells and in the placenta. Leptin controls weight by signaling the brain to eat less when body fat stores are too high. If, for some reason, the body cannot produce enough leptin or leptin cannot signal the brain to eat less, this control is lost, and obesity occurs. The role of leptin replacement as a treatment for obesity is under exploration.
• A diet high in simple carbohydrates. The role of carbohydrates in weight gain is not clear. Carbohydrates increase blood glucose levels, which in turn stimulate insulin release by the pancreas, and insulin promotes the growth of fat tissue and can cause weight gain. Some scientists believe that simple carbohydrates (sugars, fructose, desserts, soft drinks, beer, wine, etc.) contribute to weight gain because they are more rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream than complex carbohydrates (pasta, brown rice, grains, vegetables, raw fruits, etc.) and thus cause a more pronounced insulin release after meals than complex carbohydrates. This higher insulin release, some scientists believe, contributes to weight gain.
• Frequency of eating. The relationship between frequency of eating (how often you eat) and weight is somewhat controversial. There are many reports of overweight people eating less often than people with normal weight. Scientists have observed that people who eat small meals four or five times daily, have lower cholesterol levels and lower and/or more stable blood sugar levels than people who eat less frequently (two or three large meals daily). One possible explanation is that small frequent meals produce stable insulin levels, whereas large meals cause large spikes of insulin after meals.
• Medications. Medications associated with weight gain include certain antidepressants (medications used in treating depression), anticonvulsants (medications used in controlling seizures such as carbamazepine [Tegretol, Tegretol XR , Equetro, Carbatrol] and valproate [Depacon, Depakene]), some diabetes medications (medications used in lowering blood sugar such as insulin, sulfonylureas, and thiazolidinediones), certain hormones such as oral contraceptives, and most corticosteroids such as prednisone. Some high blood pressure medications and antihistamines cause weight gain. The reason for the weight gain with the medications differs for each medication. If this is a concern for you, you should discuss your medications with your physician rather than discontinuing the medication, as this could have serious effects.
• Psychological factors. For some people, emotions influence eating habits. Many people eat excessively in response to emotions such as boredom, sadness, stress, or anger. While most overweight people have no more psychological disturbances than normal weight people, about 30% of the people who seek treatment for serious weight problems have difficulties with binge eating.
• Diseases such as hypothyroidism, insulin resistance, polycystic ovary syndrome, and Cushing's syndrome are also contributors to obesity. Some diseases, such as Prader-Willi syndrome, can lead to obesity.
• Social issues: There is a link between social issues and obesity. Lack of money to purchase healthy foods or lack of safe places to walk or exercise can increase the risk of obesity.

Note that most of the reasons are not due to "lifestyle choices". and mind you, a lot of these "lifestyle choices" are linked to poverty due to cost and access to healthy food options

Fam_Fam posted...

Google: Causes of obesity

exactly. yes, some people have slower or faster metabolisms than others (genetics). and yes, some people have a medical condition that leads to weight gain. but if you look at the % of obese people in the United States both over time (compare 1960s to today) and vs the rest of the world (America is so much fatter than Europe and Asia) it's clear that our dietary and lifestyle choices are largely responsible for our obesity.

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Giant_Aspirin posted...

exactly. yes, some people have slower or faster metabolisms than others (genetics). and yes, some people have a medical condition that leads to weight gain. but if you look at the % of obese people in the United States both over time (compare 1960s to today) and vs the rest of the world (America is so much fatter than Europe and Asia) it's clear that our dietary and lifestyle choices are largely responsible for our obesity.

yes, and not all people have full control of their lifestyles (and diets), that's the part you are not acknowledging. not all choices are fully free choices.

l0bcity posted...

wow, good job Giant_Asshole

ok, let's go over the bolded ones.

genetics - yeah, some people are also predisposed to being alcoholics. but that doens't mean those people should just give in to their genetics and accept that's their place in life. having a slower metabolism means you need to be more mindful of what you eat and you'll have a harder time staying trim than other folks. that sucks and im sorry you got dealt a bad hand. but being fat is unhealthy and you should make an effort to keep the weight down just like alcoholics should make an effort to not drink. how would you feel if an alcoholic told you "its not my fault i'm this way, it's my genetics" to absolve responsibility?

medications + disease - i already addressed those

psychological factos - emotions make us do all sorts of things, its our job to keep them in check and to make responsible decisions. emotions can lead us to abuse various substances (including food) but that doesn't mean its not still a choice

social issues - i do understand the idea of a "food desert", so that's fair.

edit: i did not mark your post fwiw

Fam_Fam posted...

yes, and not all people have full control of their lifestyles (and diets), that's the part you are not acknowledging. not all choices are fully free choices.

that's why i said "vast majority" and not "100%"

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Giant_Aspirin posted...

tax on income? nah. but they should definitely not have any covid-related medical expenses covered by their health insurance OR they should be required to pay a significantly higher premium (just like tobacco smokers)

This not only sounds fair, but provides incentive for those who absolutely refuse to get vaccinated to actualy take some level of precaution to avoid expense.

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lmao I joke around and he goes crying to the mods

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Giant_Aspirin posted...

l0bcity posted...

ok, let's go over the bolded ones.

genetics - yeah, some people are also predisposed to being alcoholics. but that doens't mean those people should just give in to their genetics and accept that's their place in life. having a slower metabolism means you need to be more mindful of what you eat and you'll have a harder time staying trim than other folks. that sucks and im sorry you got dealt a bad hand. but being fat is unhealthy and you should make an effort to keep the weight down just like alcoholics should make an effort to not drink. how would you feel if an alcoholic told you "its not my fault i'm this way, it's my genetics" to absolve responsibility?

medications + disease - i already addressed those

psychological factos - emotions make us do all sorts of things, its our job to keep them in check and to make responsible decisions. emotions can lead us to abuse various substances (including food) but that doesn't mean its not still a choice

social issues - i do understand the idea of a "food desert", so that's fair.

edit: i did not mark your post fwiw

that's why i said "vast majority" and not "100%"

I agree that lifestyle changes, when possible, can/should improve outcomes. We should make societal changes to create a situation where changing lifestyles to healthier ones is easier to do (e.g., access to food, exercise equipment, etc.)

All I'm advocating for is a balanced perspective on these issues. Many people don't understand/acknowledge that. I appreciate your willingness to do so.

Mr Hangman posted...

Bunch of tyannical maniacs in this topic. Let's just tax everyone we don't like, what could go wrong.

Less than letting unvaxxed disease spreaders walk free and cause hundreds of thousands of deaths like they already have and still are causing today

If getting vaccinated kept your teeth white and your underarms dry, would more people get vaxxed?

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Mr Hangman posted...

Bunch of tyannical maniacs in this topic. Let's just tax everyone we don't like, what could go wrong.

insurance is about calculated risks. when certain behaviors have a higher risk of incident, those behaviors cost more to insure. this is why sports cars cost more to insure than luxury vehicles of the same value.

people who choose to smoke tobacco are, objectively, at a higher risk for health complications, ergo insurance charging those people an additional premium is objectively fair.

people who choose to not get vaccinated are, objectively, at a higher risk for health complications, ergo insurance charging those people an additional premium is objectively fair.

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Mr Hangman posted...

This hysteria over unvaccinated people is all predicated on false assumptions that vaccinations prevents transmission but does not protect you from the disease's effect

nobody is saying that vaccination "prevents transmission". it reduces the chances, but it does not prevent it.

vaccines objectively lower the chances of a covid infection having serious complications. period.

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No. If you stay at home and never go out, like any good NEET, you have no reason to be vaccinated. Every single working person that can should be required to get a vaccination though.

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If we're talking about the U.S., then their tax dollars already paid for the federal stock of vaccines that they refuse to take. An additional tax on top of that wouldn't make much sense.

What comes next should be a more sensible approach to rationing health care. If you refuse vaccination for non-medical* reasons, then you shouldn't be provided with care, unless it's from a private physician willing to deal with your nonsense. You've already made a medical decision regarding the pandemic and your lack of willingness to combat it, so just leave it at that.

(* That is, people who are allergic to common vaccine ingredients.)

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Giant_Aspirin posted...

they should be required to pay a significantly higher premium (just like tobacco smokers)

it's already 10$ a pack.
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