Current Events > If God is benevolent, why does he give children cancer?

(+) Yeah! (+)

dioxxys posted...

Because according to the bible, God created the perfect world and made one rule to follow, and they broke that one rule so sin cursed the earth and brought disease, natural disasters, etc into the world.

God doesn't interfere with human sins committed because that would interfere with free will. The idea is that God wanted his creations to decide to make the right decisions. Rather then creating perfect robots

Sounds like a sadistic and twisted being worthy of nothing but utter contempt. Condemning billions to suffering because of something they had nothing to do with.

Literally no reason a baby should be born with cancer, or get parasites that eats their brain or eyes. Anyone who wants to come up with an excuse for it, is deluded.
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WingsOfGood posted...

One argument that is ironic is "If God is real, why isn't he intervening today on a level we can test and quantify?"
Like bro, have you read the Old Testament? You probably would not want that to happen today...

I know you're joking, but if God is truly Omnipotent, he would know each individual and what level of evidence we would require to believe. As it stands, it really looks like God is going out of his way to make it easier to NOT believe.

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dioxxys posted...

Because according to the bible, God created the perfect world and made one rule to follow, and they broke that one rule so sin cursed the earth and brought disease, natural disasters, etc into the world.

God doesn't interfere with human sins committed because that would interfere with free will. The idea is that God wanted his creations to decide to make the right decisions. Rather then creating perfect robots

Actually the bible doesn't say this.
It just said to Adam and Even that if they ate the fruit they would surely die. Then God punished Adam to have to work the ground to produce food and Eve to have pain during childbirth.

All the rest of that comes from people assuming that had they not eaten the fruit, the world would be perfect and free of all those things. Yet that is a big assumption. Infact, it did not say Adam and Eve were immortal. It infact says they to be immortal needed to eat the fruit of the tree of life. From this the interpretation that surely die meant no one died till they sinned is not correct.

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

Their god though would absolutely have known how dangerous it was to place that landmine of a tree where it was accessible to essentially children. Besides, couldn't a loving god just, you know, forgive them?

Nah because again that's again goes back to interfering with free will. If there was no wrong choice to make, you could never do bad to begin with.

If I'm correct it seems the one thing God can have no association with, it's sin. That's why in the old testament he have the Israelites the method of animal blood sacrifice to wipe clean their sins and why Jesus eventually replaced this as the "ultimate sacrifice" since he was without sin.

WingsOfGood posted...

Actually the bible doesn't say this.
It just said to Adam and Even that if they ate the fruit they would surely die. Then God punished Adam to have to work the ground to produce food and Eve to have pain during childbirth.

All the rest of that comes from people assuming that had they not eaten the fruit, the world would be perfect and free of all those things. Yet that is a big assumption. Infact, it did not say Adam and Eve were immortal. It infact says they to be immortal needed to eat the fruit of the tree of life. From this the interpretation that surely die meant no one died till they sinned is not correct.

The are different translations and interpretations of the bible but that's what most protestants teach in church.

I didn't want to learn all this but I was forced to go to church 1-2 times a week for the first 20 years of my life and father never allowed me to miss unless I was sick. Even on family vacations we would find some church to go to. You betcha I hate going to church now.

shockthemonkey posted...

Yeah he wanted to create imperfect beings, make them suffer, and if they dont worship him correctly, make them suffer more

Eh, he never promises a better life for worshipping him properly. In fact it says a few times in the Bible that you can have it worse but it's a test of faith and dedication to him. There's a whole story of a man God tests over and over again taking everything away from him to try his faith and finally rewards him.

dioxxys posted...

Eh, he never promises a better life for worshipping him properly. In fact it says a few times in the Bible that you can have it worse but it's a test of faith and dedication to him. There's a whole story of a man God tests over and over again taking everything away from him to try his faith and finally rewards him.

Honestly just makes god sound more petty and childish than anything else, tbh. As do a vast majority of the "tests" he subjects his followers to.
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dioxxys posted...

God doesn't interfere with human sins committed because that would interfere with free will. The idea is that God wanted his creations to decide to make the right decisions. Rather then creating perfect robots

So he lets kids get cancer

great guy

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if god real why bad thing happen

damn dude you called it

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ledbowman posted...

if god real why bad thing happen

damn dude you called it

yeah he must have made you

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https://youtu.be/YVdKq3AkfJ8

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The world rewards assholes and makes good people suffer.

If there is a God, fuck him.

Also I like how I'm born into sin because some bitch a long time ago on a Galaxy far far away ate a apple god didn't want eaten.

Fuck off.

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Because everyone needs to be punished because the first guy ate an apple he was told not to

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Gladius_ posted...

You've been made with a predetermined destiny locked into predictable choices you were always going to make and there is no possible way to deviate. What free will? Your place in the cosmos was determined before the universe was even created.

Eh not really not the same thing as as predetermined locked choices. Like you can still choose to either eat an or an , you choose to eat the but change your mind to an because you have free will. God didn't make you pick the , you chose it, he was just aware of what you were going to choose.

dioxxys posted...

Eh not really not the same thing as as predetermined locked choices. Like you can still choose to either eat an or an , you choose to eat the but change your mind to an because you have free will. God didn't make you pick the , you chose it, he was just aware of what you were going to choose.

Theoretically

Not sure why people take it personally when someone appears to challenge God

Nukazie posted...

people declared what God is, God got offended and made cancer

I'd hate to imagine what they did to God to make him genocide the human race minus Noah and friends.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3EAzf5fDpY&ab_channel=DepecheMode

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Gladius_ posted...

Except one could argue if he already knew everything mankind would ever do then he chose that specific moment of that specific way because he knew at the time of creation based on the chosen position of the sun and where he would place the forbidden fruit that Adam and Eve would eat it at that specific time.

This would influence when people would be born, where people would be born, and how they would develope. By choosing it in that specific way then he influenced a choice or direction of his own choosing.

So how do we have free will when he chose to make things in a way that would play out in that specific pattern?

Let's make this a bit simpler. If god placed the forbidden fruit 1 hour away the type of people who are born would be vastly different than what we have now. This would lead to a variable of different choices of different outcomes.

So god manipulated free will by choosing to do it this way. We have no collective free will as a species because we were made in a way that was pre-determined based on his choosing.

Did I choose an apple over an orange because of my own choice? Or did I choose an apple over an orange because of God's initial choice of placing the forbidden fruit where it was?

Did he select that specific location so we would turn out a certain way to move in a certain path? If so how is Adam and Eve eating the fruit our fault? God assured that path. A path he knew would happen based on his choices.

Finally there is this..

By choosing it this way it lead to my creation but I also did not choose to be born.

Definitely interesting thoughts

Though this does assume God micro-manages instead of macro-manages. If God was the creator, I would like to think he macro manages and isn't trying to influence every little thing in existence. I mean I know he's supposed to be all-powerful but it sounds like such as hassle to tweak every little thing just because you are capable of it.

Gladius_ posted...

Oh I am not implying he micromanages at all. When you know absolutely everything.. let's put it this way. If you know absolutely everything you will know the entire ripple effect caused by pushing someone on their way to the grocery store.

You know when you shove that person they will arrive a little bit later. They will miss the last cereal box for their kid. You know the person who grabbed it before them will check out 1.5 seconds earlier than they would have.

This means where they would normally avoid being hit by a speeding car they are now 1.5 seconds further on the road. This leads to them being hit. They never produce the child who would discover a cure for cancer. So it doesn't get invented..

My point is all God has to do is create mankind at a certain time, in a certain way, and place the fruit at a certain distance, and that would create the butterfly effect that makes humanity all develope and play out the way he outlined.

I posit, if a creator has infinite knowledge, and knows everything then there is no way we can have free will because God chose that path we would travel at the moment of his choosing. Because any change or any alteration he made would wildly change the results.

And if that is the case.. then he is in control of mankinds destinies and choices based on the timing that he lays out. Free will under this is a farce.

All I am doing is taking the butterfly effect and placing it on a massive scale with the idea of an all knowing deity that would be aware of the ripples that would be created via his actions before he does them.

Or he could just send a world ending asteroid our way for shits and giggles.

Toughest battles, strongest soldiers, etc
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Why can't God give people free will and eternal damnation, but just get rid of child cancer? Those children didn't choose to get cancer or stray from his light.

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Gladius_ posted...

My point is all God has to do is create mankind at a certain time, in a certain way, and place the fruit at a certain distance, and that would create the butterfly effect that makes humanity all develope and play out the way he outlined.

I posit, if a creator has infinite knowledge, and knows everything then there is no way we can have free will because God chose that path we would travel at the moment of his choosing. Because any change or any alteration he made would wildly change the results.

And if that is the case.. then he is in control of mankinds destinies and choices based on the timing that he lays out. Free will under this is a farce.

All I am doing is taking the butterfly effect and placing it on a massive scale with the idea of an all knowing deity that would be aware of the ripples that would be created via his actions before he does them.

I see what you are saying but who is to say every placement doesn't have negative consequences? Usually in these butterfly effect stories, the choice to try to change one thing from negative to positive ends up making something else negative.

_HayleyWilliams posted...

Why can't God give people free will and eternal damnation, but just get rid of child cancer? Those children didn't choose to get cancer or stray from his light.

Well that would show favoritism if children were immune to cancer. From what the Bible says it's suggests that children who are too young to know better and died young do go to heaven. As it's sin that keeps you from being admitted into heaven, despite the popular idea media portrays that it's "the amount of good deeds you do".

All people are equal in the eyes of God, right?

So why shouldn't kids get cancer?

Gladius_ posted...

My point is him having that power, regardless of consequences, but by virtue of being able to decide which placement thus which outcome negates free will. Because we ended up in a state he chose by his first decision on how he created us, when, where, how, and why.

I believe you will not find many, if any, Christians who will accept your argument against free will because then they would have to accept that their god allowed people to be damned not because of their own actions, but because of their gods. Core to Christianity is the belief that the most important thing you can do in this material life is to willingly submit to god. This is why, for example, youll hear even professional apologists emphasize that you must accept Christ as your savior and that their god does not send people to hell. You send yourself.

Your argument directly stands in opposition to that.

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God has literally never given a shit about free will.