Current Events > Harvard reserves Macbeth for black identifying audience members

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DuranOfForcena posted...

no, i'm just seeing it for what it is

but you arent.

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s0nicfan posted...

First you were unconvinced that it was discrimination at all. Then you were unconvinced that even though it is discrimination it wasn't specifically against the law. Now you're unconvinced again if it's discrimination even though you've already agreed that it is by definition discrimination and also as proven specifically against the law.

This should be an example of "moving the goalposts"

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DuranOfForcena posted...

how does anything about this help anyone up? it doesn't

Facts.

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DuranOfForcena posted...

i could say the same thing about you

What about my posts and posting atm seems fragile? Is it white fragility or something else?

DuranOfForcena posted...

it doesn't really matter what you think, this scenario objectively fits with what was posted

I see what you're saying, but I don't see how it fits of it's just the one performance. But, I'll concede that's on me, yeah

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DuranOfForcena posted...

yes, i am

No you're not. You're just seeing it from your perspective. You don't get to win just because you claimed objectivity.

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DuranOfForcena posted...

yes, i am

So anytime minorities have gatherings of just that minority its discrimination?

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I4NRulez posted...

So anytime minorities have gatherings of just that minority its discrimination?

If those minorities are gathering at a public forum that receives federal funding and they are explicitly denying access to other people based on the color of their skin, then yes. That is very clearly discrimination.

Do you not understand the difference between hosting a gathering for one group of people and explicitly barring another group of people from attending?

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DuranOfForcena posted...

i dunno, SJW fragility or something, maybe? whatever you want to call refusing to see the facts because they don't mesh with your feelings

case in point

Huh? I literally conceded that my interpretation of the statute is irrelevant, and that what it states *does* apply here though? Can you specifically tell me what about my posts is coming off fragile? Cuz it really just seems like you're doing a "no u" thing out of frustration

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s0nicfan posted...

If those minorities are gathering at a public forum that receives federal funding and they are explicitly denying access to other people based on the color of their skin, then yes. That is very clearly discrimination.

Do you not understand the difference between hosting a gathering for one group of people and explicitly barring another group of people from attending?

I never saw anything that said people were barred. I saw in the article where they asked people to see it on another day because they wanted it to be for black people.

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DuranOfForcena posted...

i'm seeing it from the perspective of the law and of the dictionary definitions of discrimination and racism and segregation

Y'know the law is interpretive, right? That's why we have judges and lawyers.

For this to be a claim of discrimination, there would have to be allegation of harm done. Are you willing to step up on that?

(edit for clarity)

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I4NRulez posted...

I never saw anything that said people were barred. I saw in the article where they asked people to see it on another day because they wanted it to be for black people.

This is how I figured it, but I do acknowledge title 6 doesn't really specify so I figured I'd just concede and say I see nothing wrong with it

But ftr I agree with ya

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I4NRulez posted...

I never saw anything that said people were barred. I saw in the article where they asked people to see it on another day because they wanted it to be for black people.

https://ticket.americanrepertorytheater.org/5533/5542

We have designated this performance to be an exclusive space for Black-identifying audience members

s0nicfan posted...

Do you not understand the difference between hosting a gathering for one group of people and explicitly barring another group of people from attending?

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s0nicfan posted...

We have designated this performance to be an exclusive space for Black-identifying audience members

But are there any examples of them refusing to sell tickets to other people? Cause that still seems like they picked that date for the show they want to be for black people and are letting people know so they can buy tickets to a different show.

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I4NRulez posted...

But are there any examples of them refusing to sell tickets to other people? Cause that still seems like they picked that date for the show they want to be for black people and are letting people know so they can buy tickets to a different show.

I kind of brought something up in this spirit already... It was ignored <_<

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Yeah, this is discrimination but the kind you really just don't care about. Like, who tf really wants to see Macbeth be butchered "to elevate black female power, femininity, and desire" whatever that means. Seriously, what does that mean? Also how do they expect watching a play to achieve this?

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I4NRulez posted...

But are there any examples of them refusing to sell tickets to other people? Cause that still seems like they picked that date for the show they want to be for black people and are letting people know so they can buy tickets to a different show.

MedeaLysistrata posted...

I kind of brought something up in this spirit already... It was ignored <_<

Because you're asking the impossible. Unless the theater has explicitly released every single ticket sale and the race of the individual who bought it we won't be able to say with 100% certainty whether they sold a ticket to a white person. But that's irrelevant because the debate still on whether it would be discrimination or not.

In the span of a single topic we went from this isn't discrimination, to this isn't legally discrimination, to "prove it." Which, okay, if you want to be there that's fine, we cannot right now prove that discrimination has actually occurred but we can still argue over whether it would be discrimination if they followed through with their claim. The can has been sufficiently kicked to the point where there is no longer a debate to be had because you're demanding things that haven't been provided.

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s0nicfan posted...

In the span of a single topic we went from this isn't discrimination, to this isn't legally discrimination

For the record, I was operating as if these were the same thing. I thought it was a given that it was a scenario in which groups were treated differently, like, come on guys :/

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s0nicfan posted...

In the span of a single topic we went from this isn't discrimination, to this isn't legally discrimination, to "prove it."

I don't think it's either and yes you're claiming it's discrimination so prove it. Other than saying "ITS IN THE DICTIONARY AND CIVIL RIGHTS ACT" it's not proving anything.

There's no proof they've refused to sell tickets to nonblack students. It seems as if they are informing people they would like it to be an all-black audience.

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I4NRulez posted...

I don't think it's either and yes you're claiming it's discrimination so prove it. Other than saying "ITS IN THE DICTIONARY AND CIVIL RIGHTS ACT" it's not proving anything.

There's no proof they've refused to sell tickets to nonblack students. It seems as if they are informing people they would like it to be an all-black audience.

I don't need to prove it beyond the literal definition and the literal law. That is the proof. What you're asking for is whether they are guilty or not, which I've already said I can't prove because the theater hasn't released what would be evidence for that. But since you've also acknowledge that you don't think an actual title 6 violation has occurred, the fact that you want proof that they're guilty of it is irrelevant because even if I provide it that you would argue that the proof doesn't mean anything because you don't believe it's discrimination in the first place.

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I wonder where Shaun King falls on this

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DuranOfForcena posted...

lmao you're a f***ing clown

Its not even discrimination because no one is being excluded. They never said white people cant go. They said they are asking for the audience to see it on another day.

So if im a clown you're the whole fucking circus bruh

s0nicfan posted...

I don't need to prove it beyond the literal definition and the literal law. That is the proof.

Its not and you can't. There's no prejudice involved to support the definition and law you're trying to use. Show me where they are refusing to sell tickets to non black students and i'll concede it to you.

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I4NRulez posted...

They never said white people cant go.

s0nicfan posted...

https://ticket.americanrepertorytheater.org/5533/5542
We have designated this performance to be an exclusive space for Black-identifying audience members

Now, I know you're proving yourself really bad with words, but out of morbid curiosity what exactly do you think exclusive means in this instance?

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s0nicfan posted...

Now, I know you're proving yourself really bad with words, but out of morbid curiosity what exactly do you think exclusive means in this instance?

Like ive stated in other posts

I4NRulez posted...

I never saw anything that said people were barred. I saw in the article where they asked people to see it on another day because they wanted it to be for black people.

They WANT the audience to be all black. To make a comfortable safe space for black to enjoy the experience with other black people since the art is aimed towards them.

I also see in the article where they ask non black people to see it on another day

For our non-Black allies, we appreciate your support in making this a completely Black-identifying evening, it reads. We invite you to join us at another performance during the run.

So to me probably one of the possibly 3 black people in this topic. It doesnt seem like they are saying other people CANT go. They are saying they would like it to be black people only.

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I4NRulez posted...

Its not even discrimination because no one is being excluded. They never said white people cant go. They said they are asking for the audience to see it on another day.

So if im a clown you're the whole fucking circus bruh

Its not and you can't. There's no prejudice involved to support the definition and law you're trying to use. Show me where they are refusing to sell tickets to non black students and i'll concede it to you.

Any white person that wants to get in can just say they identify as black and they can't really say anything given the wording lol. I mean, it could be that transracialism is a real thing but we'll never recognize it because of all the racial tensions in our country.

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DuranOfForcena posted...

ITT: it's not racism if i don't want it to be

Yup because thats exactly what i said.

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s0nicfan posted...

Now, I know you're proving yourself really bad with words, but out of morbid curiosity what exactly do you think exclusive means in this instance?

Can I ask you if you think gay bars are discriminatory? To me it's the same situation where it's creating a safe space for that community and asking non-lgbtq members to choose another place while not outright barring them.

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I4NRulez posted...

Can I ask you if you think gay bars are discriminatory? To me it's the same situation where it's creating a safe space for that community and asking non-lgbtq members to choose another place while not outright barring them.

You can be a straight person and walk into a gay bar. You know that, right?

Do you not understand the difference between hosting a gathering for one group of people and explicitly barring another group of people from attending?

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s0nicfan posted...

You can be a straight person and walk into a gay bar. You know that, right?

Oof and you said im bad with words.

I literally said that in my post.

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I4NRulez posted...

Oof and you said im bad with words.

I literally said that in my post.

All your post shows is you don't actually understand the difference between a group creating a space with their preferred preferences that anybody can go to and a space explicitly saying that it's meant to be exclusive to one.

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"it's ok to only serve one race when we do it"

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s0nicfan posted...

All your post shows is you don't actually understand the difference between a group creating a space with their preferred preferences that anybody can go to and a space explicitly saying that it's meant to be exclusive to one.

I understand the difference. I'm saying that's not what's happening. I'm saying they WANT it to be for black people only. At no point has any proof been provided that they are refusing to sell tickets to that particular showing to anyone that isn't black.

All you said is that you cant prove it. I also said that if you had that proof I would concede you were right and it would be discriminatory. You then once again stated you have no proof to show that they aren't selling tickets to non-black people. You started this argument and don't have the proof to back it up.

This is why I brought up the situation of the gay bar because that is a comparable example here. No one is specifically barred from going but it's usually suggested that it's a safe space for LGBTQ members to go to and enjoy.

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I4NRulez posted...

I'm saying they WANT it to be for black people only.

It's still racism when the "systemic" part is absent.

I4NRulez posted...

I understand the difference. I'm saying that's not what's happening. I'm saying they WANT it to be for black people only. At no point has any proof been provided that they are refusing to sell tickets to that particular showing to anyone that isn't black.

All you said is that you cant prove it. I also said that if you had that proof I would concede you were right and it would be discriminatory. You then once again stated you have no proof to show that they aren't selling tickets to non-black people. You started this argument and don't have the proof to back it up.

This is why I brought up the situation of the gay bar because that is a comparable example here. No one is specifically barred from going but it's usually suggested that it's a safe space for LGBTQ members to go to and enjoy.

And again, I showed you the exact wording from the actual ticket sale website that says the university designated it an exclusive space for black attendees. Your entire conceit relies upon willfully ignoring that designated something an exclusive space is explicitly different than the situation you're trying to mock up.

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DuranOfForcena posted...

you can't win with people who reject objectively reality and substitute it with their own interpretation

Where are you getting that idea from, lol


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s0nicfan posted...

And again, I showed you the exact wording from the actual ticket sale website that says the university designated it an exclusive space for black attendees. Your entire conceit relies upon willfully ignoring that designated something an exclusive space is explicitly different than the situation you're trying to mock up.

White people can still see the show. <- is a true proposition


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MedeaLysistrata posted...

White people can still see the show

This, they just have to identify as black

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What people on the internet wanna be victims so bad, I don't get it >_>

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Dathrowed1 posted...

This, they just have to identify as black

You're being disingenuous... why?

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s0nicfan posted...

And again, I showed you the exact wording from the actual ticket sale website that says the university designated it an exclusive space for black attendees. Your entire conceit relies upon willfully ignoring that designated something an exclusive space is explicitly different than the situation you're trying to mock up.

Yeah, they WANT it to be all black people. I'm asking you to show proof that is if a nonblack person wants to buy a ticket they are being rejected. If they are it's discrimination for that one night.

Right now it seems as if they are asking nonblack people to see it on another day because they want the audience to be 100% black for that specific show.

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I honestly don't see this as being too different from a charity that serves a specific demographic.

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