Current Events > I don't get the "Bitcoin has no real value" argument

(+) Yeah! (+)

Maybe I just dont understand but the logic then goes:

1) but money is just worthless paper

"Money is backed by gold!"

2) gold is just a rock

Nothing has innate value, how is BTC different in that way?

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People who dont know why bitcoin has value dont understand why fiat has value.

we don't use the gold standard

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What is bitcoin backed by?

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sabrestorm posted...

What is bitcoin backed by?

nerds?

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This topic has no real value.

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sabrestorm posted...

What is bitcoin backed by?

What is gold backed by?

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Njolk posted...

What is gold backed by?

What is this topic backed by?

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Value is determined by supply and demand alone

Why are diamonds worth millions? Because people are willing to pay millions for them

If people were willing to pay millions for bottlecaps, bottlecaps would be worth millions

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sabrestorm posted...

What is bitcoin backed by?

This. Fiat currency may in fact be worthless paper, but it is backed by a government that has guaranteed it's value and use to pay all debts public and private. Bitcoin is a digital thing backed by nothing and noone. That doesn't mean it can't have a value, but it's fundamentally different than a backed currency.

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ScazarMeltex posted...

Fiat currency may in fact be worthless paper, but it is backed by a government that has guaranteed it's value and use to pay all debts public and private. Bitcoin is a digital thing backed by nothing and noone. That doesn't mean it can't have a value, but it's fundamentally different than a backed currency.

What are the posters that are backing Bitcoin in this topic? Backed up by?

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Only value currency has in my life is paying bills. Last I check my apartment doesnt take bitcoin. However, they do take monero...

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Njolk posted...

Money is backed by gold

[Laughs in post-Bretton Woods economics]

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Njolk posted...

What is gold backed by?

gold has a very long history of usage and has a definable limited amount both in circulation and contained within the Earth that can thus have its value be adjusted to other currencies

Paper money, eg the US Dollar, is backed by the federal reserve, which owns trillions in equity in the form of debt and such.

Bitcoin has a limited amount so to speak but the limitations that can make it scarce are also what makes it much more difficult to use as a stable store of value, since the cost of transactions will rise prohibitively forever. It's also much less likely to be accepted by major institutions like the US or Chinese governments because the governments have absolutely no way to control the supply and circulation of bitcoin without owning a majority stake (which is impossible for anyone, let alone a government when other governments would also want a majority stake).

While that aspect of being unable to be influenced by governments may seem like a tempting and valuable attribute to crypto evangelists, it is also exactly what will prevent it from being accepted as a common alternative currency. Worst case scenario it could get regulated into oblivion. Once financial institutions are told not to touch it and big investors and speculators pull out, bitcoin will be considered valuable to far fewer people, and thus the price will plummet.

So it's not really correct to say "bitcoin has no 'real' value" in terms of price because price is determined by the market, but at the moment, that price is both extremely volatile and based on speculation of imminent further acceptance or rejection by larger institutions.

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Imagine you're in 2008, you don't have any future knowledge, and want to invest in something - what do you do?
A stupid choice would be putting money in a savings account.
Maybe you put it in an ETF. Maybe Apple. If you have enough funds you could buy a house. If you're a weirdo economist, maybe you buy Louis Vuitton purses, sneakers, or Magic the Gathering cards (all serious answers). But you're just some young tech geek, so you buy $500 of bitcoin. Who wins?

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look

if i dont understand something

that means no one does

and if they pretend to, they're wrong.

its that simple.

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Cryptocurrency doesn't have worth that resembles currency. It's just speculative investment.

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The problem with Bitcoin et al is that it doesn't actually exist, it's not an actual physical commodity like gold or oil

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ScazarMeltex posted...

This. Fiat currency may in fact be worthless paper, but it is backed by a government that has guaranteed it's value and use to pay all debts public and private.

lmao, thanks for the US education answer.

It's backed by nothing and they can guarantee nothing. Trillions in debt.

JimmyFraska posted...

lmao, thanks for the US education answer.

It's backed by nothing and they can guarantee nothing. Trillions in debt.

The US owns hundreds of trillions in assets. As a comparison, while theres about $80,000 in debt per US citizen, there's $600,000 in assets for each same citizen.

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HylianFox posted...

The problem with Bitcoin et al is that it doesn't actually exist, it's not an actual physical commodity like gold or oil

Do you consider all digital goods / products to "not exist"? If not, what makes bitcoin special in this regard?

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JimmyFraska posted...

lmao, thanks for the US education answer.

It's backed by nothing and they can guarantee nothing. Trillions in debt.

And owns hundreds of trillions in assets which is still well into the black.

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From what I see

supposedly THE VERY END GAME=

XRP will be the ONLY one of these


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without a handful of billionaires deciding that they need to tax evade, would crypto be worth anything?

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Crypto is different than cash. While cash is not pegged to the dollar, folks who want to protect their wealth still use physical precious metal bullion. The reason precious metals are worth money is because they are used to create things like computer parts, phones, televisions, cars etc.

The phone and computer that people use to purchase bitcoin only works because of its components. The real question is, why are folks paying so much for digital currency but paying so little for things like silver and gold? Thats what i do not understand.

Njolk posted...

What is gold backed by?

Anunnaki

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WeeWeiWiiWie posted...

Cryptocurrency doesn't have worth that resembles currency. It's just speculative investment.

This. When I say Bitcoin doesnt have value I mean doesnt have use-value - its currently invested in as though it were a speculative commodity, which makes it too unstable to be useful as a currency, and thats not even getting into the problem others have mentioned of increasingly costly transactions, or slow rates of transfer due to the decentralized ledger.

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FreedomEtrtment posted...

Not gonna claim I'm at all knowledgeable of the whole crypto scene but aren't the only people actually using it to purchase material things mainly doing it for illegal things and not wanting to be tracked?

maybe a decade ago, but these days it only really applies to xmr holders

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Njolk posted...

Maybe I just dont understand but the logic then goes:

1) but money is just worthless paper

"Money is backed by gold!"

What is this, the 1930's?

Here's an idea, go read the wikipedia page on fiat currency. At least understand the basic fundamentals of the thing you're trying to talk about first, then come back here and we can have this discussion.

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