Current Events > Which is better for weight loss Keto or IF (16/8, 20/4, OMAD)?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I've come up with a system for myself, it's working ok but if a 16/8 day would be just as effective if not moreso than a Keto day I might swap them out in my plan.

Anybody have good data on this?

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Why are you asking CE? Aren't you supposed to be an expert at finding and evaluating studies and literature?

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They are two different things. One is a diet and one is a scheduled eating plan. They both can provide benefits.

I recommend IF and a low carb, low calorie diet instead of IF and keto or even just keto. Keto is just hard to maintain and the results rarely last. You will have more success with a more sustainable diet and just let the IF help lower your average calories.

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Idk if you can directly compare them.

The 16/8 and 20/4 don't particularly mean anything in a vacuum. You coukd conceivably still eat garbage during your window and do terribly. Theyre better for building good habits than anything else imo.

Keto is specifically for burning fat. The actual weight loss number isn't as relevant since you're ideally retaining as much muscle as possible.

Omad isn't particularly any different from the other fasting methods. Like youre generally not eating multiple meals in a 20/4 method.

Overall it depends in your goals. If you're trying to make lifestyle changes where you're learning better eating habits go with any of the fasting methods. If you're trying to cut some fat for short term goals go with keto.

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If makes me feel better (OMAD) but that's bout it. Keto sucks

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Sexypwnstar posted...

Why are you asking CE? Aren't you supposed to be an expert at finding and evaluating studies and literature?

I'm not really an expert at finding them, but if you have relevant studies I'd value reading them.

I know fasting is super good, but I also know many people have had success with Keto, so I'm trying to figure out which is most effective.

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Its all about calories in calories out. Ive been losing weight/fat like crazy since I gave up drinking and only eat 1600 calories/day, mostly fish/chicken/brown rice/veggies

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Jiek_Fafn posted...

Idk if you can directly compare them.

The 16/8 and 20/4 don't particularly mean anything in a vacuum. You coukd conceivably still eat garbage during your window and do terribly. Theyre better for building good habits than anything else imo.

Keto is specifically for burning fat. The actual weight loss number isn't as relevant since you're ideally retaining as much muscle as possible.

Omad isn't particularly any different from the other fasting methods. Like youre generally not eating multiple meals in a 20/4 method.

Overall it depends in your goals. If you're trying to make lifestyle changes where you're learning better eating habits go with any of the fasting methods. If you're trying to cut some fat for short term goals go with keto.

Trying to maximize fat loss.

Keto and 16/8 are pretty comparable to me in the effort area. But like if 16/8 or even 20/4 is hugely more effective at fat loss then I want to do that.

With my depression and hopelessness the smartest strategy is doing whatever loses the most fat per unit of willpower. So I'm trying to figure out what that is.

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AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Its all about calories in calories out. Ive been losing weight/fat like crazy since I gave up drinking and only eat 1600 calories/day, mostly fish/chicken/brown rice/veggies

This. Just get a calorie tracker app and keep up with it. You'll be astonished how much you were eating. Like my normal meal at a local fast food place was twice as many calories as my current daily intake.
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AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Its all about calories in calories out. Ive been losing weight/fat like crazy since I gave up drinking and only eat 1600 calories/day, mostly fish/chicken/brown rice/veggies

Well that's not entirely true. Metabolism can adjust to daily calorie deficit, so that's why things like fasting are more effective.

For example, you'd lose more weight (and feel better) if you ate 2200 calories every other day rather than 1100 calories every day. Even though it's the same calories in.

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Also if Keto + 16/8 or 20/4 is 10x as effective at fat loss then I want to know that too. Because that would be a large improvement without increasing effort that much.

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IF since diet implies youll stop at some point and then go back to being a fatty again

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joe40001 posted...

Well that's not entirely true. Metabolism can adjust to daily calorie deficit, so that's why things like fasting are more effective.

For example, you'd lose more weight (and feel better) if you ate 2200 calories every other day rather than 1100 calories every day. Even though it's the same calories in.

There is just as much research out there saying eating 4 or 5 meals a day leads to more fat loss as intermittent fasting. My point is dont worry as much about what type of fad diet to follow, pick the one that you are the most likely to stick to and follow.

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AsucaHayashi posted...

IF since diet implies youll stop at some point and then go back to being a fatty again

The question is "which is most effective for fat loss"?

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AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

There is just as much research out there saying eating 4 or 5 meals a day leads to more fat loss as intermittent fasting. My point is dont worry as much about what type of fad diet to follow, pick the one that you are the most likely to stick to and follow.

No there really isn't.

Obviously I'm going to pick the strategy most likely to succeed. But I need to know the relative efficacy to make that decision prudently.

For example you could say "ok here's a diet, only eat the fried skin from KFC and nothing else. That's all you eat." And that diet would both be difficult to maintain, but also very ineffective.

It's not enough to just throw effort into any random direction, you want to optimize it so that your effort is being most optimally used for efficacy.

The expulsion of effort, or even the sticking to a plan is not what maps to success. Burning fat is the goal, not spending unnecessary effort or consistency. Effort towards something ineffective is pointless, consistency in something ineffective is pointless.

My questions are about which approaches burn fat the best. I'm aware weight loss has a psychological component, I am factoring that into all my decisions, but that is not the area I am currently asking any questions about.

Just what burns more fat 16/8 or Keto? (And like if 20/4 is way better than both I'd want to know that too).

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Why not both? You can do a hybrid of Keto + IF. Thomas DeLauer & Dr Eric Berg are great resources for strategies on both methods.

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joe40001 posted...

Trying to maximize fat loss.

Keto and 16/8 are pretty comparable to me in the effort area. But like if 16/8 or even 20/4 is hugely more effective at fat loss then I want to do that.

With my depression and hopelessness the smartest strategy is doing whatever loses the most fat per unit of willpower. So I'm trying to figure out what that is.

Have you actually tried keto before? The initial going into it and feeling like trash is definitely a bigger hurdle than the IF imo.

On the other hand, from my experience at least I saw results more quickly so you get that nice psychological boost quicker than IF. Although I found IF easier to start and stop as my discipline falters. Keto for most people results in very uncomfortable physical symptoms if you do that.

No studies to cite, just going off of experience.

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EnterTheTekken posted...

Why not both? You can do a hybrid of Keto + IF. Thomas DeLauer & Dr Eric Berg are great resources for strategies on both methods.

Yeah I've seen them before.

I could both, I can (and sometimes do) long fasts, but I want to know the relative efficacy. Because if doing them together is twice as hard but only 5% more effective then it's not worth it. I'm going to get burnt out faster and cash in my break days sooner if I do that.

I'll share my current plan (that is both effective and sustainable):

There are 3 types of days:

1. Free day (eat whatever you want, whenever, who cares, no worries)
2. Keto day (only eat under 25 carbs for the whole day)
3. Fast day (only water and coffee and vitamins/electrolytes)

And I try to drink at least 3 liters of water most days, and really try on Keto/Fast days.

The rules are this:
I started with a bank of 10 free days to spend whenever. A Keto day has no effect on this total. A free day obviously spends 1 free day from the bank. Every 4 Fast days counts towards adding 3 free days to the bank.

It's working ok, but idk about the Keto days, they don't feel as productive as maybe they should. Also I recognize a Keto day is really only effective if it's followed by at least 2 Keto/Fast days to make sure I'm in Ketosis.

Because of my limited bank days this is usually the case, but still.

I'm wondering if I could ad 8/16 days into the mix, or 4/20 days, or if a Keto+8/16 day could count as some points towards the free days.

As most people know, sustainability is key, this kind of flexible yet structured plan works for me, but I'm trying to tweak it because idk if the Keto days are as effective as they could be.

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Jiek_Fafn posted...

Have you actually tried keto before? The initial going into it and feeling like trash is definitely a bigger hurdle than the IF imo.

On the other hand, from my experience at least I saw results more quickly so you get that nice psychological boost quicker than IF. Although I found IF easier to start and stop as my discipline falters. Keto for most people results in very uncomfortable physical symptoms if you do that.

No studies to cite, just going off of experience.

Yeah, Keto really isn't that bad/hard for me. So from your experience Keto was much more effective at fat loss? How much more effective and what was your carb limit per day?

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joe40001 posted...

Yeah, Keto really isn't that bad/hard for me. So from your experience Keto was much more effective at fat loss? How much more effective and what was your carb limit per day?

I was shooting for 30g a day simply because I didn't want to accidentally overshoot and pop myself out of it and go through the flu like symptoms I go through.

It was definitely more effective for fat lost in comparison to IF but I only did it like 4-5 months. Lost like 35lbs. I wasnt terribly overweight or anything. I was trying to get abs and succeeded.

IF I've kept up for like a year or so at a time. Lost like 30lbs in the course of a year, but it was also combined with calorie counting so I was purposefully treating it as more of a long distance run than a sprint.

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joe40001 posted...

The question is "which is most effective for fat loss"?

IF then.

since you'll by definition stop "dieting" at some point(doctors apparently recommend stopping keto at 6 months), you can keep going with IF for years and years and therefore get the absolute most fat loss than you ever could by dieting.

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AsucaHayashi posted...

IF then.

since you'll by definition stop "dieting" at some point(doctors apparently recommend stopping keto at 6 months), you can keep going with IF for years and years and therefore get the absolute most fat loss than you ever could by dieting.

Let me be more clear "which is the most effective for quickest fat loss"?

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joe40001 posted...

Let me be more clear "which is the most effective for quickest fat loss"?

i mean fat loss is irrelevant if you're gonna regain it which is how most diets fundamentally work since they teach you how to lose it quickly but not how to permanently keep it away.

what you're seemingly looking for are "quick fixes" and there are literally none.

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Dumb question, but do you exercise?

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AsucaHayashi posted...

i mean fat loss is irrelevant if you're gonna regain it which is how most diets fundamentally work since they teach you how to lose it quickly but not how to permanently keep it away.

what you're seemingly looking for are "quick fixes" and there are literally none.

No, I'm not looking for quick fixes, and no I don't need you to supervise my psychology.

I'm asking a simple data based question: "Which is more effective for the quickest fat loss, IF or Keto?" If you don't know that's totally fine. But again, I'm not soliciting psychological evaluation.

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_____Cait posted...

Dumb question, but do you exercise?

Yes somewhat.

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I don't think you're gonna find a satisfactory answer outside of, it depends. Nutritional science is still pretty shit, as I'm sure you know
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emblem boy posted...

I don't think you're gonna find a satisfactory answer outside of, it depends. Nutritional science is still pretty shit, as I'm sure you know

Yeah, I know that. I guess I get frustrated with the process and want to find any strategy options I can to improve it.

But yeah basically I know what it takes already.

I'm just feeling pretty down/discouraged, I guess.

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Sorry if the suggestion is stupid but, have you thought about surgery? From the topics about weight loss I recall you making, your main issue is motivation in sticking with the diet because the results don't visibly show them themselves fast enough.

At what point are people allowed to do surgical methods to remove fat? Maybe that would help you skip to a point where you like what you see in the mirror enough to not get discouraged but also give you motivation
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emblem boy posted...

Sorry if the suggestion is stupid but, have you thought about surgery? From the topics about weight loss I recall you making, your main issue is motivation in sticking with the diet because the results don't visibly show them themselves fast enough.

At what point are people allowed to do surgical methods to remove fat? Maybe that would help you skip to a point where you like what you see in the mirror enough to not get discouraged but also give you motivation

I think fat removal is like cosmetic surgery, it's really sloppy and janky and so you end up looking weird/worse.

I need to lose the weight on my own I think, but yeah the clock is ticking on me ever having a single day where I know what it's like to not hate my appearance.

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just do IF instead of waiting around and thinking about it. it's simple to get into, effective and actually good for you unlike keto

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Whatever you can stick with is the best.
Any diet that basically gets you to a caloric deficit works in losing weight as long as you stay consistent and not give up on it.

Keeping it down is a whole lifestyle change.


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ThyCorndog posted...

just do IF instead of waiting around and thinking about it. it's simple to get into, effective and actually good for you unlike keto

I'm not waiting around, I've already detailed what I've been doing, I just want to understand how IF compares to Keto and then i might update my strategy.

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IF.

Stop looking for something quick or the fastest. The sooner you realize that weight loss takes a while regardless of what diets and steps you took to ensure something 'fast' the better.

So ignoring that, which is better? IF. Keto is a fad diet and won't lead to long term success, not to mention its health benefits is strictly just weight loss, not much else. It's a bad diet. If you go down one road go IF.

Otherwise if you want to ensure something fast and consistent, exercise moderately for an hour a day and keep track of your calories.

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"With my assumptions of your psychology in mind, I recommend IF"

Please stop doing this.

I asked a simple direct question, "which is better for fastest fat loss, IF or Keto?"

I am not asking for psychological evaluation. This is a data gathering topic so I can plan my best strategy. While psychology does play an important part in weight loss, discussion of the psychology of weight loss (or of me for that matter) are not the point of this topic.

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joe40001 posted...

"With my assumptions of your psychology in mind, I recommend IF"

Please stop doing this.

I asked a simple direct question, "which is better for fastest fat loss, IF or Keto?"

joe40001 posted...

Let me be more clear "which is the most effective for quickest fat loss"?

I gave you the answer.

Stop with the assumptions of others that we are coming from a place of psychology.

I'm giving you a direct and correct answer. Now start planning.


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Sorozone posted...

I gave you the answer.

Stop with the assumptions of others that we are coming from a place of psychology.

I'm giving you a direct and correct answer. Now start planning.

You also said "stop looking for ... the fastest" implying that you weren't answering my question.

You even said "ignoring that", which I assumed you mean "ignoring fastness".

So that is why I interpreted your statement as not saying IF was faster.

But, if you are indeed saying IF is faster for weight loss than Keto then thank you for answering my question, and I'm sorry I misunderstood.

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IMO, intermittent fasting, I feel keto ends up leading to excess consumption of saturated fats and is not a long term solution since you're eliminating an entire macro.

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Goldenguy posted...

IMO, intermittent fasting, I feel keto ends up leading to excess consumption of saturated fats and is not a long term solution since you're eliminating an entire macro.

Noted.

Thank you for answering.

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joe40001 posted...

But, if you are indeed saying IF is faster for weight loss than Keto then thank you for answering my question, and I'm sorry I misunderstood.

Sure. Sorry for any confusion. Point is nothing is fast in the weight loss world, but if you are choosing between the two choose IF.

Start at 16/8 and slightly decrease the window as you get more comfortable. If you are not used to this you'll probably experience headaches.

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People who do Keto or IF ultimately just starve themselves without realizing it, so like all diets designed to do that, they are not sustainable.

1g of Carbs is stored in the body with roughly 3-4g of water as energy reserve. Keto only "works" because you shed water weight and you will lose a little bit of fat as well because many Keto diets set a sort of limit like 50g carbs a day, which even avoiding carbs, you will still hit pretty easily. In IF, most people can't eat enough food in their 8 hour window to be in a calorie surplus or body maintenance and they lose weight.

If you want to lose weight and keep it off, you need to become familiar with your height, current weight, gender, and activity level. I would also suggest having a scale for weighing yourself and a scale to weigh food because many food labels are deceiving on cup measurements. Weighing food by the gram is the best way to portion.

To figure out how many calories you need a day, try punching in your info here https://www.calculator.net/calorie-calculator.html to get a rough idea of your calorie needs. Then, you can put it to the test and see if you maintain, lose, or gain weight. You can adjust your calorie consumption from there. And absolutely try to do a zigzag calorie schedule as it will make your metabolism function more in your favor. Also consider consuming caffeine. It speeds up everything in the body, including your metabolism. Just don't go too crazy with it.

A calorie deficit is the only way you will lose weight and keep it off. You must accept this.

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DuranOfForcena posted...

at this point i'm pretty sure TC's not looking for a satisfactory answer, he's just looking to argue and complain and for an excuse to just not do anything at all because nothing measures up to his impossible metrics of a "quick fix"

careful, you're diving into his "psychology" xd

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DuranOfForcena posted...

at this point i'm pretty sure TC's not looking for a satisfactory answer, he's just looking to argue and complain and for an excuse to just not do anything at all because nothing measures up to his impossible metrics of a "quick fix"

It's Joe numbers, so...

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Several people gave good answers, including:
whitelytning, Jiek_Fafn, Smackems, emblem boy, Sorozone, Goldenguy

So thanks everybody, this perspective and feedback was what I was looking for.


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