Current Events > Just finished A Dance With Dragons. What. The. Fuck.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Did the men of the nights watch seriously just Julius Caesar John Snow? Goddammit grrm

I haven't watched the show yet thankfully but damn.

I could understand those scummy power hungry types like Othell yarwyck being engaged in a Brutus esque plot but even dolorous edd ?

It is strongly hinted that Jon will be brought back by Melisandre, similar to the way Thoros of Myr has brought people back from the dead.

Also, Edd isn't part of the conspiracy, he's at one of the other Night's Watch castles trying to prepare for the White Walkers.

F*** Olly. Hes not in the books but it still needs to be said.

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Edd's at Eastwatch I thought.

ADWD made the Winterfell and Meereen plots so much better than they were in the show

Oh yeah I meant bowen marsh. I always thought he was one of the good ones, not like Alistair Thorne or whomever.

The hurt is real.

iPhone_7 posted...

F*** Olly. Hes not in the books but it still needs to be said.

Never thought about it before, but it's kind of weird that the show turned an ex-prostitute into a kid.

And man, that Varys scene at the end. "You're a good man, Sir Kevan....but you're threatening to undo all of the queen's good work."

Cersei is such a great fucking character, by far my favorite. You don't always realize just how badly and how hugely she's fucking up when you're reading her chapters because it's from her point of view. And she prances from fuck-up to fuck-up with one arm behind her, patting herself on the back because she's so smart, she's so devious, she's doing such an amazing job.

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I hope you enjoyed the final ASOIAF book.

What do you think about the letter supposedly from Ramsay Bolton saying that Stannis and his army are dead? I don't believe it considering that Stannis had the huge advantage and there was chaos inside Winterfell the last time we saw it.

Hornswoggled posted...

I hope you enjoyed the final ASOIAF book.

Aren't two more coming out? Dreams of Spring and something else.

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SomeLikeItHoth posted...

Aren't two more coming out? Dreams of Spring and something else.

Dreams of Spring?

Dreams of Martin Actually Finishing This Series is more like it. Am I right, people?

That's basically the end of Game of Thrones. Enjoy ending a series at like a million cliffhangers.

Even if Winds of Winter ever came out, you'd still be in the same jam again because the last is just not gonna happen.

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Noumas posted...

Oh yeah I meant bowen marsh. I always thought he was one of the good ones, not like Alistair Thorne or whomever.

The hurt is real.

dont forget Marsh backed Janos for the election. Hes like neutral with Jon but in the fifth book you can see him getting angry at every decision Jon makes. Still sucks though.

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Trelve posted...

What do you think about the letter supposedly from Ramsay Bolton saying that Stannis and his army are dead? I don't believe it considering that Stannis had the huge advantage and there was chaos inside Winterfell the last time we saw it.

*TV SPOILERS*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-j01uhSdGo

This guy goes over all the theories regarding that. In fact, this guy has a bunch of ASOIAF vids worth checking out.

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Trelve posted...

What do you think about the letter supposedly from Ramsay Bolton saying that Stannis and his army are dead? I don't believe it considering that Stannis had the huge advantage and there was chaos inside Winterfell the last time we saw it.

He writes in the letter the name of Stannis's sword. Unless he had him, is that something he would know?

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008Zulu posted...

He writes in the letter the name of Stannis's sword. Unless he had him, is that something he would know?

He doesn't write the name, just that he has "his magic sword" which I believe is relatively common knowledge in Westeros.

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Trelve posted...

What do you think about the letter supposedly from Ramsay Bolton saying that Stannis and his army are dead? I don't believe it considering that Stannis had the huge advantage and there was chaos inside Winterfell the last time we saw it.

Stannis' army was starving and freezing.

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Now read the Winds sample chapters.

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SomeLikeItHoth posted...

Aren't two more coming out?

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Great book. I was fooled by my friends that read it and said "nothing serious happens in Dance". Fuckers set me up. It also has one of my favorite sections.

"Then come" Barristan you BADASS

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SomeLikeItHoth posted...

Hornswoggled posted...

I hope you enjoyed the final ASOIAF book.

Aren't two more coming out? Dreams of Spring and something else.

Oh sweet summer child
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Jon Snow did abandon his post as Lord Commander and was going to forsake his vows as a member of the Night's Watch by riding to fight in Winterfell.

He was basically committing the worst sin possible for a Lord Commander of the Night's Watch when you think about it: Leading a massive army of Wildlings through the Wall in order to attack people of Westeros.

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I only made this topic in gut reactionary anger because of what happened, I can't read any of the posts though in case they spoil further on.

Noumas posted...

I only made this topic in gut reactionary anger because of what happened, I can't read any of the posts though in case they spoil further on.

I expect you will have forgotten all this by the time the next book is released.

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AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Jon Snow did abandon his post as Lord Commander and was going to forsake his vows as a member of the Night's Watch by riding to fight in Winterfell.

He was basically committing the worst sin possible for a Lord Commander of the Night's Watch when you think about it: Leading a massive army of Wildlings through the Wall in order to attack people of Westeros.

Yeah it makes perfect sense that the watch would kill him. He was already on thin ice letting the wildlings through. Then flipping on a dime, announcing he would march with them on Winterfell? That was the exact reason they were skeptical to let them through in the first place.

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His watch has ended
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Noumas posted...

I only made this topic in gut reactionary anger because of what happened, I can't read any of the posts though in case they spoil further on.

The show is bad and not important so it's ok to have it spoiled for you

Don't get me wrong I always thought it was ridiculous that barely 17 year old jon snow was made leader of the night's watch, but I moved past it just to see where he was going with this.

But for this to happen its just like aaarrggghhh

Noumas posted...

Don't get me wrong I always thought it was ridiculous that barely 17 year old jon snow was made leader of the night's watch, but I moved past it just to see where he was going with this.

But for this to happen its just like aaarrggghhh

This is based off medieval times, where you are considered a man when you are 13 or 14. He is still a little young, but its not that much of a shock that he was made LC in the story, especially being the bastard of Ned Stark. Osric Stark was made Lord Commander at age 10 and served for 60 years.

Jaime Lannister went to war, was knighted after fighting the Smiling Knight and saving a bunch of people, and then raised to the Kingsguard at age 15. He was 17 when he killed Aerys and became the Kingslayer.

Robert and Ned were only 19 years old when they declared war on Aerys and overthrew the Targs in Robert's Rebellion.

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I haven't watched the show yet thankfully

you ought to keep it that way
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pegusus123456 posted...

Cersei is such a great fucking character, by far my favorite. You don't always realize just how badly and how hugely she's fucking up when you're reading her chapters because it's from her point of view. And she prances from fuck-up to fuck-up with one arm behind her, patting herself on the back because she's so smart, she's so devious, she's doing such an amazing job.

I think it's more the opposite - when you're not seeing her perspective she seems pretty smart and competent. A bit less so when you see her from Tyrion's perspective but still capable enough. Then you get to see her inner thought process and it's literally "person who acts nice to me is my loyal pawn, person who disagrees with me even slightly is my mortal enemy, hahahaha I am genius"

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Panthera posted...

I think it's more the opposite - when you're not seeing her perspective she seems pretty smart and competent. A bit less so when you see her from Tyrion's perspective but still capable enough. Then you get to see her inner thought process and it's literally "person who acts nice to me is my loyal pawn, person who disagrees with me even slightly is my mortal enemy, hahahaha I am genius"

Yeah, her POV chapters always made me laugh at what a bumbling idiot she was, especially with how much she ranted about Robert being a drunk who was terrible at ruling-- the exact same thing she became when she seized power.

Don't know if I should ask this here or make a new topic, but I dont think he handled Shae well.

Wtf at her betraying tyrion. Specifically why would she go out of her way during the trial to humiliate him like that. It would make sense if she just picked up and left with all the gold and jewels, but staying and humiliating is a greater risk to her because they might have imprisoned her as a co-conspirator or something. It was an unnecessary gamble

Hornswoggled posted...

Dreams of Spring?

Dreams of Martin Actually Finishing This Series is more like it. Am I right, people?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/202-books-and-literature/63527101

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Noumas posted...

Don't know if I should ask this here or make a new topic, but I dont think he handled Shae well.

Remember just how often Shae tried to get Tyrion to make her a more prominent part of his life? Shae is a greedy idiot. She absolutely would have gone along with Cersei and Tywin in hopes that she could get more out of it. After all, her last gravy train is in prison now.

Or for a more charitable interpretation, she really couldn't get away anyway. Tywin and Cersei would have locked down Tyrion and Sansa's household staff immediately. From that point, you just assume she was being honest when she told Tyrion she was afraid of them.

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Noumas posted...

Don't know if I should ask this here or make a new topic, but I dont think he handled Shae well.

Wtf at her betraying tyrion. Specifically why would she go out of her way during the trial to humiliate him like that. It would make sense if she just picked up and left with all the gold and jewels, but staying and humiliating is a greater risk to her because they might have imprisoned her as a co-conspirator or something. It was an unnecessary gamble

Shae in the books is a whimsical, uneducated and fairly unworldly teenage prostitute who never really develops strong feelings for Tyrion, so her decision-making follows suit.

In fact, a lot of the character incongruities in the show can be traced back to the fact that, in the source material, many of the key characters are considerably younger than the show depicts them (the show had to age them up for the sake of graphic content). And even though they are preternaturally intelligent in many ways, they still often react to situations how you might expect a teenager would react. So Dany in the show doing something stupid as a 19 or 20-year-old often seems less plausible than her 13-year-old book counterpart doing the same thing.

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pegusus123456 posted...

Remember just how often Shae tried to get Tyrion to make her a more prominent part of his life? Shae is a greedy idiot. She absolutely would have gone along with Cersei and Tywin in hopes that she could get more out of it. After all, her last gravy train is in prison now.

Or for a more charitable interpretation, she really couldn't get away anyway. Tywin and Cersei would have locked down Tyrion and Sansa's household staff immediately. From that point, you just assume she was being honest when she told Tyrion she was afraid of them.

Damn... you guys making some good points.

Settle something for me. My friend who's seen the show insists that the relationship between melisandre and stannis is sexual, but in the book I haven't seen outright evidence of that, just that she seems to have a "hold" on him (but his wife introduced him to this religion and melisandre in the first place, so it would be weird if it actually was sexual)

I don't think the book is ever overt about it, but Melisandre's offers to Jon and Davos heavily imply that you create a shadow assassin with magic sex. I don't think the relationship between Melisandre and Stannis is sexual beyond this sort of businesslike enchantment though - indeed, he comes across as asexual to me. We never get a hint as to whether his wife feels about it or indeed if she's even aware of it, but the bitch is fanatically crazy enough that it could have been her idea.

The show does make this clear by showing the actual sex and Melisandre sort of seduces Stannis into it partly by shit-talking his wife. I can see how someone who just watched the show wouldn't see how weirdly sexless Stannis is because he's very much into fucking Melisandre in the show.

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IIRC in the books it was heavily implied they had sex to create the shadow assassin but nothing beyond that.

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Alright I'm gonna watch the show. Already started and its... not vastly different, but pretty darn different from how I interpreted some of the characters in the books

Noumas posted...

Alright I'm gonna watch the show. Already started and its... not vastly different, but pretty darn different from how I interpreted some of the characters in the books

It'll diverge more as the seasons go on, notably around s4-5 is where it really takes a nosedive.

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The creators of the show said that their goal was to get to the Red Wedding, and after that the show pretty much took a huge dive, even if it already was diverging some stories a lot and not to the better. First instance of them diverging from the books to the worse is at season 2 iirc.

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FF_Redux posted...

The creators of the show said that their goal was to get to the Red Wedding

Yup, they just did not care about any of the story after that point and it shows. Wish theyd done the right thing and handed the reins to someone else.

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IIRC, the first major difference is Catelyn. In the books, she encourages Ned to go to King's Landing with the correct political interpretation of the situation while the show version instead asks him to stay. Just makes her a little more naive.

Though the most obvious difference is the age of everyone. You wouldn't know from Michelle Fairley that Catelyn was 35 in the book.
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^Shes also a LOT more likable in the show (probably largely due to Michelle). Book Cat can be really vicious with her attitude toward Jon.

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I'd venture to say that the majority of the characters in the show are more likeable / sympathetic than their book counterparts. This is largely due to the quality of the acting; even when the show started going off the rails, many of the actors admirably worked their asses off trying to spin the shit writing into gold. Certain characters like Davos, Bronn, and Osha made marked improvements over their book counterparts in terms of personality.

This is a double-edged sword in many cases though, as it leads to whitewashing of certain characters; this is especially true of Cersei, who doesn't deserve an ounce of sympathy in the books. Even Tyrion commits plenty of vile acts in the books that are either downplayed or omitted entirely in the show so as not to stain his 'good guy' status.

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