Current Events > Just finished A Dance With Dragons. What. The. Fuck.

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pegusus123456 posted...

IIRC, the first major difference is Catelyn. In the books, she encourages Ned to go to King's Landing with the correct political interpretation of the situation while the show version instead asks him to stay. Just makes her a little more naive.

I have forgotten this completely. Why did she want Ned to go in the books?

stoltenberg11 posted...

I have forgotten this completely. Why did she want Ned to go in the books?

Worry that Robert would begin to suspect Ned was against him and ambition for Sansa to become Queen.

Book Catelyn says this when Ned says he intends to turn down the offer:

You cannot. You must not.

If you refuse to serve him, he will wonder why, and sooner or later he will begin to suspect that you oppose him,

Pride is everything to a king.

He offers his own son in marriage to our daughter, what else would you call that? Sansa might someday be queen. Her sons could rule from the Wall to the mountains of Dorne.

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Ok something I've been dying to ask.

5 books I've read. 5 times I've waited and waited for GRRM to finally reveal what exactly happened all those years back during Robert's rebellion. Be it in a flashback scene or whatever.

He still hasn't revealed it. Oh he's given bits and pieces sure, I know its something to do with Ned's sister, and rhaegar, and his brother, and even his father, and the mad king, but he's never point blank said it.

I think I've pieced a lot of it together and I wouldn't ask but it's literally the driving force behind the entire series.

And quite frankly every time I imagine the idea of Robert and Ned as boys or in their prime as best friends in service to a younger jon arryn, I feel like it would make a great prequel, like the marauders in Harry Potter with young James and Sirius and lupin. Hearing about how close they were and more like brothers than even Robert's own brothers makes me interested in this idea every time.

Noumas posted...

Ok something I've been dying to ask.

5 books I've read. 5 times I've waited and waited for GRRM to finally reveal what exactly happened all those years back during Robert's rebellion. Be it in a flashback scene or whatever.

He still hasn't revealed it. Oh he's given bits and pieces sure, I know its something to do with Ned's sister, and rhaegar, and his brother, and even his father, and the mad king, but he's never point blank said it.

I think I've pieced a lot of it together and I wouldn't ask but it's literally the driving force behind the entire series.

And quite frankly every time I imagine the idea of Robert and Ned as boys or in their prime as best friends in service to a younger jon arryn, I feel like it would make a great prequel, like the marauders in Harry Potter with young James and Sirius and lupin. Hearing about how close they were and more like brothers than even Robert's own brothers makes me interested in this idea every time.

Lyanna runs off with Rhaegar. Ned's family (and Robert) think he kidnapped her. Ned's brother and father go to King's Landing to ask Aerys to return her. He, being insane, burns them to death. This begins Robert's Rebellion.

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Noumas posted...

Ok something I've been dying to ask.

5 books I've read. 5 times I've waited and waited for GRRM to finally reveal what exactly happened all those years back during Robert's rebellion. Be it in a flashback scene or whatever.

He still hasn't revealed it. Oh he's given bits and pieces sure, I know its something to do with Ned's sister, and rhaegar, and his brother, and even his father, and the mad king, but he's never point blank said it.

I think I've pieced a lot of it together and I wouldn't ask but it's literally the driving force behind the entire series.

And quite frankly every time I imagine the idea of Robert and Ned as boys or in their prime as best friends in service to a younger jon arryn, I feel like it would make a great prequel, like the marauders in Harry Potter with young James and Sirius and lupin. Hearing about how close they were and more like brothers than even Robert's own brothers makes me interested in this idea every time.

They talk about it a bit more in the show, and I suspect that this part is quite similar to how GRRM imagined it, at least the major beats of it.

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Yeah I'm just wondering how the show handles it. If they reveal it at all, I'd love to see the mad king's reign and what he looked like. Especially what rhaegar looked like and Robert in his prime

I know he's dead now but do you think tywin ever knew about jaime and cersei or simply pretended not to know or actually didn't know? Or knew and didn't care because it suits his interest of semi-ruling the throne?

Cersei mentioned that she remembered that time when their dead mother caught her and jaime sharing a bed together and was horrified/gasped and gave cersei a stern talking to that she and jaimie shouldn't "do that"

They never make it clear but either way its funny whether or not he did know because didn't he technically marry his cousin? And he has the gall to be mad at tyrion's existence for being a dwarf or to be mad at cersei/jaimie if he ever lived long enough to find out? I know in the old days cousin marriage wasn't considered incest by the old ruling powers compared to brother/sister but it's still kinda icky

I always wondered why bro/sis incest was so frowned upon seeing as how the ruling house for 300 years practiced it regularly

Personally, I think the best answer is that Tywin didn't know. He's a brilliant man, gifted in virtually every way, but his one flaw is that he's completely blind to what his family is doing. His prejudices against Tyrion means he isn't taking advantage of a valuable asset and, in fact, actively turns it against himself. He ignores the type of man Jamie is, setting himself up for disappointment when Jamie refuses to ascend to the seat of House Lannister. The only one he really gets right is Cersei and that's mostly just because the Westeros idea of what a woman should be doing happens to coincide with what a moron she is.

stoltenberg11 posted...

I always wondered why bro/sis incest was so frowned upon seeing as how the ruling house for 300 years practiced it regularly

Jamie and Cersei discuss this a few times. The answer seems to be that you can bang who you want when you have a massive fuck-off dragon.

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Yeah, he definitely knew about the rumors, and I strongly doubt he couldn't put two and two together.

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stoltenberg11 posted...

I always wondered why bro/sis incest was so frowned upon seeing as how the ruling house for 300 years practiced it regularly

Keep in mind that the Targaryens had a long history of insanity most likely due to all of the inbreeding. After they were gone it was probably agreed upon that it would be wise not to repeat that.

Of course whether or not people in a medieval society would even know that inbreeding causes such defects is beyond me.

As for Tywin, in the show Cersei outright tells him and he just goes straight into denial. Its implied that he was always aware of it, but just kept it buried in his mind.

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pegusus123456 posted...

Personally, I think the best answer is that Tywin didn't know. He's a brilliant man, gifted in virtually every way, but his one flaw is that he's completely blind to what his family is doing. His prejudices against Tyrion means he isn't taking advantage of a valuable asset and, in fact, actively turns it against himself. He ignores the type of man Jamie is, setting himself up for disappointment when Jamie refuses to ascend to the seat of House Lannister. The only one he really gets right is Cersei and that's mostly just because the Westeros idea of what a woman should be doing happens to coincide with what a moron she is.

Jamie and Cersei discuss this a few times. The answer seems to be that you can bang who you want when you have a massive fuck-off dragon.

Weird how someone so smart can't see the value of tyrion and is so insanely prejudiced against him. I assume he's blinded by love of his dead wife and misplaced hate on tyrion by blaming him for her death.

I love the detail that some family member said to Tywin "Jaime isn't your son, Tyrion is" ie Tyrion is more like you than Jaime is, and Tywin stopped talking to the family member for years. It's true though.

One thing I prefer in the books is how Tyrion isn't so sympathetic. I spent the last two and a half books just going "Oh Tyrion honey no, come the fuck on" as he just digs holes for himself because he has to be the smartest guy in the room at all times. You actually see his downfall. The show, no spoilers really, just makes it look like the world's stacked against him, when in the book he just makes mistake after mistake after his trial.

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Tyrion isn't Tywin's son

Don't wanna Google it for fear of spoilers but maester aemon targaryaren. How was he related to the rest of them again? Specifically aerys the mad king and dany. He mentions that he gave up the throne for someone else, who was that?

Noumas posted...

Don't wanna Google it for fear of spoilers but maester aemon targaryaren. How was he related to the rest of them again? Specifically aerys the mad king and dany. He mentions that he gave up the throne for someone else, who was that?

hes the uncle of the mad king, so great great uncle of Dany and Jon.

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Oh TC you should also read A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms.

Its a prequel set 100 years before the main story and its much smaller in scope but its a great read if you want to live in that world some more.

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I have this theory that I've been excited to tell someone about.

"Coldhands" who bran and co meet and helps them on their journey... that must be benjen stark isn't it?!!!

I have this theory that benjen stark, being mortal, succumbed to the blue eyes affliction of snow zombie (whatever they are) like the others, however because he's a stark, the blood of the first men flows through him and his stark blood allows him to retain his memories and control of his faculties.

So because he's only human he still turns into one, but because he's a stark he still remembers who he is and who bran is when he refers to him by name and isn't completely full snow zombie

They have a strong hatred for the wildlings. Jon doesn't. It also looked like he was about to break his oath by leading an army south as I recall.

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And I have more regarding this theory, I think the reason benjen stark in his current format never returned to the nights watch to notify them is because he's afraid they'll be horrified at what he's become and try to kill him. So he's forced to live as an outcast of society up until he met bran and co and finally had purpose again.

without actually spoiling the show, can I get a yes or no if the show proves this theory since there's no way winds of winter will ever be released at this point

Noumas posted...

And I have more regarding this theory, I think the reason benjen stark in his current format never returned to the nights watch to notify them is because he's afraid they'll be horrified at what he's become and try to kill him. So he's forced to live as an outcast of society up until he met bran and co and finally had purpose again.

without actually spoiling the show, can I get a yes or no if the show proves this theory since there's no way winds of winter will ever be released at this point

It does IIRC yeah.
I mean, the show contains info that will confirm/falsify your theory.

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