Current Events > The cast of DBZ vs the cast of Marvel Avengers

(+) Yeah! (+)

Goku is faster than any of the Avengers lol. Instant Transmission is well, instant. They cant move faster than him. Goku can teleport to another planet at will.

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Krillin would die, but the Z Warriors would easily win this fight

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AdrianBeterson posted...

Although I am fairly confident Goku could solo everyone you listed, you're also forgetting that he has another God as his teammate. While Goku's simultaneously knocking the teeth out of Thor and Strange, Vegeta is solo'ing the rest of the Avengers.

Who are the Avengers? Depending on the team, this is not an issue.

Dbz goku isnt soloing Thor at all. They have a fair fight before Thor teleports him into a dimension you cant teleport out of. Otherwise, thor is a guy who tanks planet busting hits like "damn, sucks for that planet" and delivers hits that hurt Celestials.

But you did say everyone i listed. With even a moment to think (at significantly faster than human thought) Strange has teleported his body to a safe dimension and is just casting spells as an un-punchabe soul, from which he can do all sorts of reality warping that DBZ characters simply cant respond to. Surfer, meanwhile, has faster feats than all of them, better energy absorption than all of them, and basically treats them all like spoiled children. And Sentry isnt even really alive, he's just a thought projection of an abstract soul in a body he's made for himself that will reform if destroyed while simultaneously mind-wiping an entire universe if necessary.

The idea of a bunch of physical fighters taking out all of even the last 10 years of Avengers just makes no sense. You'd need someone like Whis or better, with totally broken esoterics.

Xethuminra posted...

Care to cite a few examples? Just out of curiosity

Vegeta was about to blow up the Earth as early as Saiyan arc. The planet of Namek actually was blown up by Frieza.

That means characters were planet busters as early as the first arc or second arc at the latest. With power creep Goten and Trunks were super saiyans by like age 8 which means they probably had power to destroy planets.

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We've already seen Goku overcome time stopping with raw power and speed, so even the time stone would basically be useless against him. Really the only thing that stands a chance is a Thanos snap, and even then it might not work--Goku has shown the ability to outright resist the magic of an extremely powerful wish-granting dragon more than once by choosing not to let the magic affect him. The infinity gauntlet might therefore be useless against him, too.

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Yeah but it took Frieza some time to power up that attack. What cities got destroyed?

Xethuminra posted...

Care to cite a few examples? Just out of curiosity

Base form freeza destroyed planet vegeta with ease. He also destroyed namek after a long fight with his toughest opponent he had ever fought again with ease.

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Xethuminra posted...

Yeah but it took Frieza some time to power up that attack. What cities got destroyed?

Remember when Nappa nuked a city with a casual flex of two fingers?

That's Nappa, whose power level is basically ant-sized compared to Frieza, who is ant-sized compared to Cell, who is ant-sized compared to Buu, who is ant-sized compared to SSB Goku, who is ant-sized compared to Jiren?

Yeah. We're like a bajillion orders of magnitude beyond city and planet busting by now.

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Did he nuke a city? Or at least a sizable portion of one by simply pointing his finger? I do seem to remember that.

Xethuminra posted...

Did he nuke a city? Or at least a sizable portion of one by simply pointing his finger? I do seem to remember that.

https://youtu.be/ioJQoZ7dxSI

On a side note, man the unedited DBZ was pretty brutal. He straight murdered those people

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Several dbz characters would solo the entire marvel roster.

Goku or vegeta would fuck em all up easy. Zeno is like Thanos with all the infinity stones except all the time and he doesn't need to even try.

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im not 13 posted...

https://youtu.be/ioJQoZ7dxSI

On a side note, man the unedited DBZ was pretty brutal. He straight murdered those people

Man now I want a dbz arc that's like invincible. That would be awesome.

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Not to be that guy, but when it comes DBZ, I feel a lot of their "power" is more of them "saying" but not actually "showing"

Like when Goku and Beerus were supposedly about to "destroy" the universe with their punches, all it showed was some waviness, and we know Goku has gotten much stronger than that fight, and going all out against others, so you'd think he'd be destroying universes if he was as strong as the overdramatic Z fighters like to claim he is.

Whereas, in comics, we've actually seen these guys punch holes through literal dimensions (such as Superman, albeit, he's DC). I don't know much about Marvel power levels as much as DC's, but considering comics has a tendency to have power creep as much as any other long-running media based on fighting to save the day, I wouldn't doubt their top heroes have had feats similar to that over the decades they've been around.

Not to mention, those who say they're resistant to magic are assuming the magic users in DB are on par with the likes of reality-shifters such as Doctor Strange and Scarlet Witch.

And at the end of the day, we're talking strength in literal numbers. Each member of the Avengers seems to be able to pull some OP thing out of thin air (how many times does Iron Man literally create a buster suit designed to take on things insanely out of Tony's reach. You're telling me Dr. Gero can create Androids that end up significantly more powerful than Goku without even accounting for his Super Saiyan jump but Tony Stark can't do something similar? The MCU version of him literally discovered time travel overnight, and we all know the movie versions get tempered down a whole lot compared to their comic-book counterparts).

Sure, they haven't always won, but these are guys that have fought literal gods that can snap things out of existence if they feel like it. Dragon Ball has had some insane feats, but they are wildly inconsistent with it (Roshi being able to destroy a moon pretty easily at one point being an example since later showings have villains with a lot more power than him that aren't even planet-busters). The most famous example coming from Super's recent durability feats where Goku gets injured by a ray gun or how about when Krillin simply tosses a small rock at SSJ Goku's head during the Cell Arc and that hurts Goku enough to make him lose his temper. As I said, DB has problems where they like to say "omg, this guy can destroy the universe!!!" to the point where it feels like everyone's just being overly-dramatic about it.

Now, don't get me wrong, the comics also have a lot of inconsistent power-levels. Comic books are probably famous for PIS making god-busters lose to city-level heroes. That was more of an argument of me saying it's harder to pin down Goku's exact power because of these inconsistencies.

All in all, I think the sheer number of the Avengers and their wide array of powers will give them the edge over the Z-Fighters. Perhaps Captain America can't really do much as he is without some upgrades, but the Avengers have pleeenty of god-busters to go along with it. This isn't even to say that the Avengers actually show teamwork a lot more than the Z-Fighters do considering the former do it to save the day while the strongest of the latter just do it for their ego.

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And if you're including people like Zeno, it starts to feel like you're arguing every character from Dragon Ball vs just a narrow group of superheroes. The question feels more appropriate to be asking the Z-Fighters themselves as they are who we follow.

In that case, sure DB would win since Zeno is literally a universe-buster. I feel like at that point, though, the question then becomes DB vs Marvel in which Marvel has a lot of counters to Zeno at that point.

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im not 13 posted...

https://youtu.be/ioJQoZ7dxSI

On a side note, man the unedited DBZ was pretty brutal. He straight murdered those people

Ah, yes....

but then they seemed to kinda drop that level of destruction, eh? Because realistically it is a bit ridiculous and things would get out of hand quick. The whole world would be gone in a year. A single city being destroyed is basically one of the worst things imaginable,....... its a sheer catastrophe. It would have ramifications for decades. Let alone several.

DBZ is notoriously inconsistent

PiOverlord posted...

Not to be that guy, but when it comes DBZ, I feel a lot of their "power" is more of them "saying" but not actually "showing"

Beerus sneezed and blew up a large moon.

So...

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Xethuminra posted...

DBZ is notoriously inconsistent

Also true.

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The cast?

So, like, Sean Schemmel vs RDJ?

CanuckCowboy posted...

Also true.

Ok
on one hand - they tried to solve this with GT: reset: goku becomes a kid, and loses much of his power

on the other hand - Super: Goku unlocks just another level of power altogether (effectively resetting him) and enters into a battle with parallel worlds; always tasked with facing an equal opponent as a result.

Hell even Chaotsu can take on all the Avengers team without breaking a sweat

PiOverlord posted...

Sure, they haven't always won, but these are guys that have fought literal gods that can snap things out of existence if they feel like it.

They got owed by Thanos though and even he almost died from Thor from an axe

Ive never seen Goku get hurt by a weapon.

Goku has defated literal gods easily also

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SpiritSephiroth posted...

I think we should keep this to Z levels when talking about Dragonball. Super goes absurdly overboard in terms of power.

Things like time and dimensions being causally broken, universes being wiped in a second, endless voids being shaken. At a certain point it gets too much.

You mean the kinds of things that regularly happen in the comics?

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PiOverlord posted...

Like when Goku and Beerus were supposedly about to "destroy" the universe with their punches, all it showed was some waviness, and we know Goku has gotten much stronger than that fight, and going all out against others, so you'd think he'd be destroying universes if he was as strong as the overdramatic Z fighters like to claim he is.

If you paid attention during that scene, you would know that what eventually happened was that Goku learned how to better contain his power and control the destruction caused by the blows. The only reason the Z-fighters don't obliterate the planet every time they fight is because of ki control--it's what allows them to use explosive blasts without nuking half the solar system by accident.

PiOverlord posted...

Whereas, in comics, we've actually seen these guys punch holes through literal dimensions

We've seen that in DBZ, as well. Super Buu and Gotenks were able to scream with enough force to rip a hole from one dimension into another. Later, in the Super Broly movie, Broly and Gogeta powered up to such insane degrees that the dimensions were rapidly warping around them as they fought.

PiOverlord posted...

Not to mention, those who say they're resistant to magic are assuming the magic users in DB are on par with the likes of reality-shifters such as Doctor Strange and Scarlet Witch.

Given that one of the most powerful magic-users in Dragon Ball is a literal wish-granting dragon that can bring people back from the dead and grant immortality to anybody who asks, I think it's pretty telling that said dragon can't affect Goku because Goku is just outright too powerful to be affected against his will.

PiOverlord posted...

The most famous example coming from Super's recent durability feats where Goku gets injured by a ray gun or how about when Krillin simply tosses a small rock at SSJ Goku's head

One of those was an oversight. In the movie, Goku got shot through the back in Blue form, but in the Super version, Goku had powered down completely and totally dropped his guard. Either way, it was an advanced laser weapon from space. For all we know, it shoots energy as powerful as the Androids can produce.

The other thing, with the rock, was just a filler gag.

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Xethuminra posted...

Ok
on one hand - they tried to solve this with GT: reset: goku becomes a kid, and loses much of his power

on the other hand - Super: Goku unlocks just another level of power altogether (effectively resetting him) and enters into a battle with parallel worlds; always tasked with facing an equal opponent as a result.

I didnt ever get into gt.

To be clear I agree with you. Its all over the place.

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https://imgur.com/a/NMRW63a

This is how the fight would go

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im not 13 posted...

They got owed by Thanos though and even he almost died from Thor from an axe

Ive never seen Goku get hurt by a weapon.

Goku has defated literal gods easily also

Bro, Goku has gotten hurt by actual weapons. There's an entire meme about the fact that he got hurt by a weapon.

And the MCU isn't what we're talking about here. Live-action always gets significantly depowered since it's a lot harder to show off cartoon/comic feats in live-action format without it coming across as silly. The Comic Avengers are bound to be a lot more powerful than their movie-counterparts since they're not limited to a lot of the things live-action versions get hit with.

And you're acting like Thanos is some jobber. He literally was possessing a weapon that basically gave him infinite power. And again, you're acting like Thor's axe was just some piece of metal that I could find in my shed to cut some trees down with. It was literally made to counter the all-powerful Infinity Gauntlet. What Thor had to do in his MCU version to just get it actually showed insane durability and strength itself (seriously, rewatch it). Not to mention, it was being possessed by Thor himself, the literal God of Thunder and one of the strongest beings in the MCU.


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IfGodCouldDie posted...

You mean the kinds of things that regularly happen in the comics?

This.

Case in point: Enigma venom.

He was so powerful he just asually snatched mjolnir and silver surfers board at the same time and then made them into one weapon.

And thor was like wtf no and silver surfer was like "oh wow that's cool."

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frankly, including strange at all means that any avenger team that survives for more than a second gets to win, as they will just travel back in time and prevent the z fighters from even being born.

PiOverlord posted...

Live-action always gets significantly depowered since it's a lot harder to show off cartoon/comic feats in live-action format without it coming across as silly.

As an aside, this is one of the reasons I love Zack Snyder's DC movies so much. He's not afraid to show just how amazingly sturdy and fast Superman is. Or how The Flash can go far beyond the speed of light to the point of warping time.

I wish the Marvel movies weren't so scared to really go for it. So many of the fight scenes in Marvel movies end up being a ground-level, close-quarters slug fest.

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MorningDream posted...

frankly, including strange at all means that any avenger team that survives for more than a second gets to win, as they will just travel back in time and prevent the z fighters from even being born.

Yeah that's true, especially since Strange definitely did that to defeat the universal threat of Thanos, right?

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CanuckCowboy posted...

I didnt ever get into gt.

To be clear I agree with you. Its all over the place.

Supers attempt to clean it up drives the plot deeper into the repetitive formula, which is not the seriess strong suit im
sure we can agree. DBZ sees a lot of praise (especially around the Namek arc) for having an ongoing narrative with each episode giving you totally different pieces (as it does come from a manga, and they had developed their own style) ~ which is pretty different from a 30-40 min. oneoff against a villain like you tend to see in Batman, where everything resolved itself
by the end of the episode and then youd have these 2 or 3 parters. Super is much more episodic & its double-edged sword. On on hand, its less silly. On the other hand, its stale.

Xethuminra posted...

DBZ is notoriously inconsistent

Really not less consistent than comic books. At least DBZ has one canon storyline lol

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Doe posted...

Really not less consistent than comic books. At least DBZ has one canon storyline lol

Also, a large percentage of the inconsistencies in DBZ come from filler material. The manga is pretty straightforward in most regards. Once you familiarize yourself with the concept of Ki control to explain why the Earth doesn't bust every time somebody powers up, there's not really that much that's inconsistent in the manga.

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Xethuminra posted...

Supers attempt to clean it up drives the plot deeper into the repetitive formula, which is not the seriess strong suit im
sure we can agree. DBZ sees a lot of praise (especially around the Namek arc) for having an ongoing narrative with each episode giving you totally different pieces (as it does come from a manga, and they had developed their own style) ~ which is pretty different from a 30-40 min. oneoff against a villain like you tend to see in Batman, where everything resolved itself
by the end of the episode and then youd have these 2 or 3 parters. Super is much more episodic & its double-edged sword. On on hand, its less silly. On the other hand, its stale.

Yeah I agree. I mean super has that overall season arc that exists but its in the background a lot of the time.

Also I mean its hard for me to compare the two on some level cause one has huge nostalgia factor and the other I binged hard but I didnt even watch it till a few years later and dbz I watched first as a kid so its got that magic.

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

As an aside, this is one of the reasons I love Zack Snyder's DC movies so much. He's not afraid to show just how amazingly sturdy and fast Superman is. Or how The Flash can go far beyond the speed of light to the point of warping time.

I wish the Marvel movies weren't so scared to really go for it. So many of the fight scenes in Marvel movies end up being a ground-level, close-quarters slug fest.

I agree. Man of Steel still has some of my favorite showings of a live-action superhero. I have to imagine the scene of when Faora fought the soldiers and was zipping to each one should be an example of how a live-action Dragon Ball should handle speed like that. It was fluid and satisfying.

Now, I should say, while I think the Avengers would beat the Z-Fighters, my earlier post was more so arguing that the assumption Goku is so much above the superheroes he could solo them is a little unfair considering how inconsistent both can be. I know this is the cop-out answer, but I think it really depends on who the writers feel like making the winner. Either side winning wouldn't feel like PIS. Like, if Black Widow beat Goku, sure, that's silly, and is definite PIS, regardless if the writer wants to say otherwise. The Avengers beating the Z-Fighters, though, I could accept it.

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Xethuminra posted...

Spiderman is a bad match for Krillin.

Black Widow would be able to stop him.

That's not fair though. Any hot chick is a bad match for Krillin because he's gonna simp for her.

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Goku has plot armor, but comic character of merchandising armor

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Jubilee solos the z fighters

Tear gas and laser rings

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Avengers would get fried.

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Doe posted...

I'm pretty sure power level is the measure of Ki, so saying someone without Ki has a power level doesn't make sense?

In terms of using technology to limit Ki, there was a genius scientist named Dr Gero who's life work was creating artificial ki generators and absorbers, but there's always a limit to the bandwidth of technology,

When Radditz landed on Earth, the farmer he killed had a power level of 5. How long did it take Krillan and Yamcha to learn how to harness Ki energy?

You can't assume that Gero was smarter than Stark. Stark is a physicist and engineer, yet despite being drunk to the point of not remembering anything, basically solved the Extremis problem. Which was entirely biological in nature. Just like Batman, given enough "time to plan", Stark has been able to come up with some pretty impressive inventions. I don't doubt he could develop a planet wide Ki suppression field.

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Comic Dr. Strange and Scarlet Witch are broken AF they could probably take down the Gods Of Destruction. So are a lot of versions of Thor and Hulk

Movie Avengers would get curbstomped in the blink of an eye.

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Namek Saga Krillin solos.

Edit: Assuming movie versions.

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Dragon Ball Evolution vs the MCU then ,__,

Comic superheros are vastly overpowered. Anyone who says DB cast simply hasn't read any of the comics. To put it bluntly, you may as well draw a stick figure smiley face and say they have infinite power and can defeat Whis and Goku UI with ease. That's what the Marvel cast is like.

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https://youtu.be/rTzTJLz51fQ

Yup.

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008Zulu posted...

I don't doubt he could develop a planet wide Ki suppression field.

The problem is this, both comic books and DBZ are bullshit.

Comics: Iron Man invents arbitrary new device that immediately renders Z-Fighters powerless
DBZ: Z-Fighters overcome it through the power of their will

Like, which plot device BS do we go with, lol?

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E_S_M_Z posted...

The problem is this, both comic books and DBZ are bullshit.

Comics: Iron Man invents arbitrary new device that immediately renders Z-Fighters powerless
DBZ: Z-Fighters overcome it through the power of their will

Like, which plot device BS do we go with, lol?

A third common enemy shows up and they have to band together to fight it

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E_S_M_Z posted...

Comics: Iron Man invents arbitrary new device that immediately renders Z-Fighters powerless
DBZ: Z-Fighters overcome it through the power of their will

Like, which plot device BS do we go with, lol?

You literally hit the nail on the head. This goes for every other versus topic. Does one punch man win because he punches people? Does Superman win because he has no limits? Does Goku win because he always breaks those limits?

None of it is designed to be put together and people keep trying to force those rules to work in one universe, when in fact it simply can't. Which is why you can't rely on those type of reasoning when making a convincing argument.


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https://youtu.be/vYFwqaYzf9Q

This is a shit clip cuz didnt show frieza firing the beam but cant find anything else. Basically frieza just points his finger at this city and the red beam nukes it. No charge or anything needed.

This is nothing to the upper tier avengers tho. Itd prob kill the likes of spidey and below tho.

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