Current Events > Are you pro Vaccine Mandate?

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CableZL posted...

The data shows the vaccines are very strong. The reason the polio was eradicated in the US was because the overwhelming vast majority of the public took the vaccine, and we started requiring kids to be vaccinated against polio before they were allowed to attend school.

But the general public wasn't re-infected with a new wave several months later and occupying hospital beds. There is also the fact that the vaccine is mRNA gene therapy, different technology and methods are being used to fight against it

Galcian posted...

But the general public wasn't re-infected with a new wave several months later and occupying hospital beds. There is also the fact that the vaccine is mRNA gene therapy, different technology and methods are being used to fight against it

1. The general public wasn't re-infected with a new wave several months later and flooding ICUs because so many people took the vaccine that we reached herd immunity in most countries. There are 2 countries in Asia (Afghanistan and Pakisatan) that still deal with polio infections today.
2. mRNA isn't gene therapy. The mRNA from the vaccines would have to enter the cell nucleus and interact with DNA (it doesn't) in order to be gene therapy.

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CableZL posted...

1. The general public wasn't re-infected with a new wave several months later and flooding ICUs because so many people took the vaccine that we reached herd immunity in most countries. There are 2 countries in Asia (Afghanistan and Pakisatan) that still deal with polio infections today.
2. mRNA isn't gene therapy. The mRNA from the vaccines would have to enter the cell nucleus and interact with DNA (it doesn't) in order to be gene therapy.

1. So Israel's 70% isn't good enough apparently. At what point is it good enough?
2. It is similar in nature, the point is different technologies are being used. It instructs the body to produce the covid-19 spike protein

Galcian posted...

So Israel's 70% isn't good enough apparently. At what point is it good enough?

I'm not sure how many times it will need to be repeated ITT that the delta variant changed things in Israel. We're still learning as we go with covid, especially since it's mutating so rapidly because we're letting it spread so much.

Galcian posted...

It is similar in nature, the point is different technologies are being used. It instructs the body to produce the covid-19 spike protein

It is not gene therapy. Again, there are certain requirements for something to be gene therapy. The covid mRNA vaccines don't meet those requirements at all. This is not up for debate.

And yes, your cells use the instructions (mRNA) from the vaccines to make the spike protein. Once it's made, the cell breaks down the mRNA and gets rid of it. Then the cell displays the protein piece on its surface. Our immune systems recognize that the protein doesn't belong there and begin building an immune response and making antibodies, just like what happens if you get covid. Your body learns how to protect against future infection, but without the other risks that actually getting covid presents.

The mRNA vaccines don't interact with our DNA in any way, so they are not gene therapy at all.

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Are y'all still on about this

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CableZL posted...

I'm not sure how many times it will need to be repeated ITT that the delta variant changed things in Israel. We're still learning as we go with covid, especially since it's mutating so rapidly because we're letting it spread so much.

It is not gene therapy. Again, there are certain requirements for something to be gene therapy. The covid mRNA vaccines don't meet those requirements at all. This is not up for debate.

And yes, your cells use the instructions (mRNA) from the vaccines to make the spike protein. Once it's made, the cell breaks down the mRNA and gets rid of it. Then the cell displays the protein piece on its surface. Our immune systems recognize that the protein doesn't belong there and begin building an immune response and making antibodies, just like what happens if you get covid. Your body learns how to protect against future infection, but without the other risks that actually getting covid presents.

The mRNA vaccines don't interact with our DNA in any way, so they are not gene therapy at all.

But the spike protein binds to the ACE-2 receptor it comes across. If the body has too many ACE-2 receptors that are blocked or bound, its function stops.

Galcian posted...

But the spike protein binds to the ACE-2 receptor it comes across. If the body has too many ACE-2 receptors that are blocked or bound, its function stops.

The immune system attacks and destroys the spike proteins because it knows they're foreign. That's why the vaccine works against covid. Your body attacks the spike proteins that the mRNA instructed your cells to make, and since that spike protein is what covid uses to attack your cells, your body already knows how to fight against it if you get infected.

Your DNA is stored inside the nucleus of your cells and mRNA vaccines do their work outside of that.

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I'm skeptical of vaccine mandates, whether imposed by the government or by a private business. I don't know, though. I could be convinced either way, to be honest.

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AloneIBreak posted...

I'm skeptical of vaccine mandates, whether imposed by the government or by a private business. I don't know, though. I could be convinced either way, to be honest.

A number of vaccines are already mandated by the government, though

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M_Live posted...

I'm vaccinated and fully support everyone getting vaccinated but I'm iffy about a mandate just because I don't like the idea of the government drastically overextending their power. I feel like it could be a good thing but it could also open the door for them exerting even more control over peoples personal freedoms. I mean look what's going on with the garbage in Texas with the abortion bill.

I'm kind of in the same spot. I'm very pro-vaccine and definitely think less of those who don't, but at the same time I feel like an actual mandate raises a lot of ifs and buts.

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PsychicHippo posted...

I'm kind of in the same spot. I'm very pro-vaccine and definitely think less of those who don't, but at the same time I feel like an actual mandate raises a lot of ifs and buts.

Do the vaccines already mandated raise ifs and buts?

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UnfairRepresent posted...

I can also see the GOP shoehorning an argument in the future that "Body Autonomy doesn't matter. We need to protect lives even if it violates people's rights." as a justification for laws or mandates that effectively double as abortion bans.

Jacobson as an abortion law vector is going to be interesting, yes.

Fuck yeah

Gotta love all the dumbasses on Facebook and Twitter sharing memes about how its unconstitutional to mandate vaccines

Newsflash: weve had mandated vaccinations for fucking ever.

Roughly 200 million people in this country have had at least one COVID shot and the doomsday predictions of all of them dying in a few months hasnt happened, and the overwhelming majority of hospitalized COVID patients are unvaccinated.

Stop being a bunch of whiny bitches, roll up your sleeves, and get your fucking shots.

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littlebro07 posted...

Stop being a bunch of whiny bitches, roll up your sleeves, and get your fucking shots.

I finally did because my mom told me to.

Of course LiberalFAQs would be for it.

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Durn libruls

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At this point, yes. The people who oppose it are just looking for an excuse to cause more trouble and sufferring.

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We do it for kids in school every single year. It's why we don't have the measles and mumps going on rampages. We already have vaccine mandates

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VTBM posted...

Of course LiberalFAQs would be for it.

There is no justice in the world if most Republicans in office are not brought up on murder charges for their actions during the pandemic. Defintiely need to throw in some Dems like Cuomo too.

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CableZL posted...

The immune system attacks and destroys the spike proteins because it knows they're foreign. That's why the vaccine works against covid. Your body attacks the spike proteins that the mRNA instructed your cells to make, and since that spike protein is what covid uses to attack your cells, your body already knows how to fight against it if you get infected.

Your DNA is stored inside the nucleus of your cells and mRNA vaccines do their work outside of that.

This is true. Going further, when a vaccinated cell dies or is destroyed by the immune system, it releases debris of spike proteins or protein fragments. These have the potential to interact with ACE-2, which can promote degradation and a loss of activity of the ACE-2 enzyme. Increased platelet aggregation, less angiotensin II inactivation and less generation of angiotensin17 can be a result, which can lead to thrombosis, and other inflammation.

Galcian posted...

This is true. Going further, when a vaccinated cell dies or is destroyed by the immune system, it releases debris of spike proteins or protein fragments. These have the potential to interact with ACE-2, which can promote degradation and a loss of activity of the ACE-2 enzyme. Increased platelet aggregation, less angiotensin II inactivation and less generation of angiotensin17 can be a result, which can lead to thrombosis, and other inflammation.

Which is why it's better to get vaccinated. Covid actively replicates itself many times over and puts you at risk of this happening. The vaccines don't.

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We are only 8 months removed from having Donald Trump in charge of the country, so I'm still wary of the idea of the government saying "You must stick this in your body", but it has become pretty obvious that there is a stretch of society that is far too stupid to get the vaccine on their own, so it is clear a mandate is necessary.

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CableZL posted...

Which is why it's better to get vaccinated. Covid actively replicates itself many times over and puts you at risk of this happening. The vaccines don't.

Also, your cells themselves aren't "vaccinated cells." Your body generates antibodies that react to the spike protein after you get infected or you get vaccinated.

It's unquestionably safer to get vaccinated against covid than it is to get covid to get that immunity.

Cells affected after a person gets the vaccine undergo the process I described. You can disagree with me calling them vaccinated cells, but the process is still the same.

The question: is it worth risking your ACE-2 enzymes through taking the vaccine?

Galcian posted...

The question: is it worth risking your ACE-2 enzymes through taking the vaccine?

Yes.

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Galcian posted...

Cells affected after a person gets the vaccine undergo the process I described. You can disagree with me calling them vaccinated cells, but the process is still the same.

The question: is it worth risking your ACE-2 enzymes through taking the vaccine?

Your ace-2 enzymes aren't at risk from taking the vaccine. They aren't giving you a dose so large that it would put your ace-2 enzymes at risk in the slightest.

The vaccines' dosage doesn't inundate your body with covid spike proteins. Your body doesn't need an overwhelming amount for the immune response to kick in. Your immune system recognizes miniscule accounts of foreign substances and reacts.

The amount of bullshit people spread and vaccines ad nauseum is exhausting.


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I wouldn't be if they were actually forcing it on everybody. Since the two options presented are either get vaccinated or get tested every 7 days, I'm fine with this.

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CableZL posted...

Your ace-2 enzymes aren't at risk from taking the vaccine

You might want to read this before making such claims
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8084611/

Galcian posted...

You might want to read this before making such claims
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8084611/

The loss of ACE2 receptor activity from the external site of the cellular membrane, as mediated by the interaction between ACE2 and SARS-CoV-2 Spike proteins, leads to less angiotensin II inactivation and less generation of antiotensin17 [44, 45]. The imbalance between angiotensin II overactivity and of antiotensin17 deficiency may trigger inflammation, thrombosis, and other adverse reactions (Fig. 1) [44, 45]. In this context, it is not clear whether the interaction between free-floating Spike proteins and ACE2 may favor such imbalance and influence the potential adverse events following vaccination (Fig. 1).

Your own source says it is not clear that the interaction between free-floating spike proteins and ace2 will cause those adverse reactions.

You really need to actually read your sources before you post them. You have, yet again, tried to suggest a definite conclusion that has not been reached by your source.

First you suggested people in Israel who are fully vaccinated need typically need to go to the hospital when they get infected with covid. You used a source that said and 304 fully vaccinated people are in the hospital in Israel when there have been thousands upon thousands of infections in the current spike.

Then your said mRNA vaccines are gene therapy when they factually are not. Then you tried to move the goalposts and say "We'll, it's kinda like gene therapy!" It's factually not gene therapy.

Now you're trying to suggest a definite conclusion has been reached about ace2 enzymes being put at risk because of mRNA vaccines when you're source directly states that it's unclear.

Stop spreading bullshit. You aren't doing anything but making up shit and it's a worthless effort unless your goal is simply to spread misinformation.

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CableZL posted...

The loss of ACE2 receptor activity from the external site of the cellular membrane, as mediated by the interaction between ACE2 and SARS-CoV-2 Spike proteins, leads to less angiotensin II inactivation and less generation of antiotensin17 [44, 45]. The imbalance between angiotensin II overactivity and of antiotensin17 deficiency may trigger inflammation, thrombosis, and other adverse reactions (Fig. 1) [44, 45]. In this context, it is not clear whether the interaction between free-floating Spike proteins and ACE2 may favor such imbalance and influence the potential adverse events following vaccination (Fig. 1).

Your own source says it is not clear that the interaction between free-floating spike proteins and ace2 will cause those adverse reactions.

You really need to actually read your sources before you post them. You have, yet again, tried to suggest a definite conclusion that has not been reached by your source.

First you suggested people in Israel who are fully vaccinated need typically need to go to the hospital when they get infected with covid. You used a source that said and 304 fully vaccinated people are in the hospital in Israel when there have been thousands upon thousands of infections in the current spike.

Then your said mRNA vaccines are gene therapy when they factually are not. Then you tried to move the goalposts and say "We'll, it's kinda like gene therapy!" It's factually not gene therapy.

Now you're trying to suggest a definite conclusion has been reached about ace2 enzymes being put at risk because of mRNA vaccines when you're source directly states that it's unclear.

Stop spreading bullshit. You aren't doing anything but making up shit and it's a worthless effort unless your goal is simply to spread misinformation.

I am not the one claiming the ACE-2 enzyme is not at risk like you did.

Galcian posted...

I am not the one claiming the ACE-2 enzyme is not at risk like you did.

You are trying to suggest a definite risk while using a source that directly says it's unclear whether there is a risk or not. Again, you post sources that directly refute your bullshit and act as if your sources are supporting your arguments. You're doing this multiple times across at least two topics now.

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I support private businesses requiring it if they want to but I dont support government mandates.

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Master_Materia posted...

I support private businesses requiring it if they want to but I dont support government mandates.

You don't support government mandates in general, or just in regard to vaccines?

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