Current Events > Are you pro Vaccine Mandate?

(+) Yeah! (+)

TerraSeeker posted...

No. If you are feel the virus is a danger to you, then get the vaccine or take whatever precaution you want. You have no right to forces those on others.

lol this planet is hopeless. People still don't understand how viruses or herd immunity work. I'm glad measles was eradicated long before Trump destroyed society because we'd never defeat it.

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CableZL posted...

You either don't understand what you're posting or you're being intentionally misleading.
* Yes, 59% of those in the hospital in Israel are fully vaccinated.
* That is not, by any stretch of the imagination, anywhere near a majority of their vaccinated population.
* And again, the people who are vaccinated and have severe breakthrough infections that require hospitalization are faring much better than unvaccinated people who get severe infections.

It really is a testament to the efficacy of the vaccine that 59% of those hospitalized from Covid in Israel are vaccinated. Also no one said it was the majority of the population. And what about the unvaccinated people who have mild infections or don't even notice it?

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how do we feel about the virus being forced to mutate into a more resistant strain through breakthrough cases

nobodys talking about that much at all, kinda same principle as superbacterias through prolonged usage of antibiotics

I took the vaccine because its better for my own protection but this part bugs me a little

Smackems posted...

It isn't the mark of the beast obviously, but people are fed the bullshit that makes them think it is and they're scared to death they will go to hell for eternity. I don't know how to deal with a PICKLE like that

Throw them in a mental institution because that is insane.

CableZL posted...

Hospitalization data doesn't support the claim that smokers and junk food eaters are clogging up hospitals. The claim that they are more likely to be hospitalized can be argued, but unvaccinated covid patients are causing so much of an issue that it's making it harder for people who need advanced care to get the care they need.
* A man in Houston was shot 6 times and had to wait at least 10 days for surgery because unvaccinated covid patients were taking up all of the ICU beds in the area.
* A US Army veteran died from a gallstone (an easily treatable condition) because unvaccinated covid patients were taking up all of the ICU beds in the area.
* A man in Alabama died 200 miles from home because unvaccinated covid patients were taking up all of the beds in 43 ICUs and they had to keep turning him away.
* A few weeks ago, San Antonio, TX was completely without EMS service for 26 minutes because of a surge of unvaccinated people getting severe covid infections and calling 911.

This isn't something we've seen in the US in my lifetime, but unvaccinated covid patients are undoubtedly causing major issues for the US healthcare industry.

Nurses are quitting because of healthcare industry vaccine mandate, this itself produces staff shortages.

ROOTFayth posted...

how do we feel about the virus being forced to mutate into a more resistant strain through breakthrough cases

nobodys talking about that much at all, kinda same principle as superbacterias through prolonged usage of antibiotics

If you're concerned about mutations, they are created from lots of people being infected and spreading covid

Anti-vaxxers on mass are the big cause of all these variants. The idea that Vaccines will create a new mutation is the opposite of the data.

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TerraSeeker posted...

Also no one said it was the majority of the population.

You either didn't read or you're lying.

What I said:

CableZL posted...

Vaccinated people typically don't need to go to the hospital if they get it

Galcian's response:

Galcian posted...

Not the case in Israel

His claim that vaccinated people typically need to go to the hospital if they get infected with covid in Israel is patently false. Then he tried to support that with the data showing that 59% of covid patients in the hospital in Israel are fully vaccinated, implying that 59% of hospitalized covid patients in the hospital in Israel represents the majority of their vaccinated population. That's either a huge misunderstanding of what he's reading or he's just flat out lying.

TerraSeeker posted...

It really is a testament to the efficacy of the vaccine that 59% of those hospitalized from Covid in Israel are vaccinated.

It just means vaccine efficacy wanes over time, which has been known for a while now. Israel is combatting this by giving people booster shots.

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Torn

I have no issue with mandates such as you have to be vaccinated if you want to go to this school or if you want to work here. And I would say mandating covid vaccination is a pretty clear case of choosing the greater good. But I'm also not sure at what point you're completely overriding someone's personal rights to autonomy of what does or doesn't go into their body.

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Galcian posted...

Nurses are quitting because of healthcare industry vaccine mandate, this itself produces staff shortages.

Nurses have been quitting long before the vaccine mandates were a thing because they're tired of anti-vaxxers abusing them all day every day and having to watch them die all day and night.

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The government saying "it's for your own good" is not a good thing.

"Cops are racist and abuse their power"

So lets idk give them the ability to tell you that you cannot enter a grocery store.
Nothing bad can come of this surely!

Also, hospitals in the US aren't having to build overflow tents for covid because of nursing shortages. It's because there are too many covid patients flooding the ICUs. The vast majority of them are unvaccinated.

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hockeybub89 posted...

lol this planet is hopeless. People still don't understand how viruses or herd immunity work. I'm glad measles was eradicated long before Trump destroyed society because we'd never defeat it.

herd immunity is not possible with covid and this vaccine though, % of breakthrough cases too high, covids here to stay

Absolutely.

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Kind of against it, would rather have Darwin take care of things but don't have a problem with the mandates themselves.

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CableZL posted...

Also, hospitals in the US aren't having to build overflow tents for covid because of nursing shortages. It's because there are too many covid patients flooding the ICUs. The vast majority of them are unvaccinated.

I get the feeling that Galcian person is just shitposting at this point.
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ROOTFayth posted...

herd immunity is not possible with covid and this vaccine though, % of breakthrough cases too high, covids here to stay

What is the % of breakthrough cases?

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CommonStar posted...

I think the mandate is good, but I also think it doesn't do enough towards helping the unvaccinated in marginalized communities who logistically are unable to get vaccinated due to structural obstacles. People just look at the unvaccinated and think it's only those anti-vaxxers but they don't see that there are still structural barriers that make it difficult for those in marginalized communities get vaccinated. It's a more complicated matter than just lumping all unvaccinated under anti-vaxxers and treating them like the alt-right. Like the PTO OSHA requirement is great but it doesn't cover gig workers and the undocumented workers who make up about 2/5ths of the labor force.

that's... not really true at all... i mean, i'm sure there are some people that physically cant leave their house and go to pretty much any pharmacy around them for a free shot, but in many areas there are services that will actually come to you and give you the shot.

this isn't like voting. you dont have to wait 12 hours at the DMV and present 10 different forms of ID for a license just to spend half a day waiting in line on the one day the election is held to cast your vote. there are no real barriers keeping people from getting these shots in the US.

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CableZL posted...

His claim that vaccinated people typically need to go to the hospital if they get infected with covid in Israel is patently false. Then he tried to support that with the data showing that 59% of covid patients in the hospital in Israel are fully vaccinated, implying that 59% of hospitalized covid patients in the hospital in Israel represents the majority of their vaccinated population. That's either a huge misunderstanding of what he's reading or he's just flat out lying.

What caused these vaccinated people to go to the hospital then in Israel? You claimed that

Vaccinated people typically don't need to go to the hospital if they get it

I showed in at least one instance, this was not the case. https://www.science.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta

Irony posted...

Yes and pro flogging if you don't get it

I'm vaxxed but can I get the flogging too pls

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Galcian posted...

What caused these vaccinated people to go to the hospital then in Israel? You claimed that

Vaccinated people typically don't need to go to the hospital if they get it

I showed in at least one instance, this was not the case. https://www.science.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta

Do you know what the word "typically" means? And do you understand how "one instance" doesn't refute anything in that regard?

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CableZL posted...

What is the % of breakthrough cases?

not sure what the number is, cases are soaring here in quebec and we have over 80% vaccinated, they just moved the goal post to 95% and also said covid wasnt going to go away so we had to prepare for that

CableZL posted...

Do you know what the word "typically" means? And do you understand how "one instance" doesn't refute anything in that regard?

So Israel's situation doesn't matter is what you are saying, we should disregard what they are reporting, right

Also, from your link:
As of 15 August, 514 Israelis were hospitalized with severe or critical COVID-19, a 31% increase from just 4 days earlier. Of the 514, 59% were fully vaccinated.

Israel population: 9.053 million (2019)
Fully vaccinated: >78% as of August 31st. Source:

• https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-vaccine-data-how-many-have-already-been-inoculated-for-covid-1.9626604

9,053,000 people * .78 = 7,061,340

7,061,340 people in Israel fully vaccinated

541 in the hospital, according to your link
~59% of those are fully vaccinated

541 * .59 = 319.19

So let's just say that 320 fully vaccinated people in Israel are in the hospital with covid.

320 people out of over 7,000,000 people who are fully vaccinated

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Galcian posted...

So Israel's situation doesn't matter is what you are saying, we should disregard what they are reporting, right

I'm saying you either:

1. Don't understand what you're posting
2. You're intentionally lying about what you're posting

Which is it?

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Smackems posted...

I'm vaxxed but can I get the flogging too pls

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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/

And if we look at the recent spike in infections in Israel, there have been thousands upon thousands of new infections.

Even if we assume the % of vaccinated vs unvaccinated people in Israel exactly matches in the number of infected people, compared with the % unvaccinated in the hospital, you can't logically claim that vaccinated people in Israel typically need to go to the hospital if ~320 are in the hospital among thousands upon thousands.

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Irony posted...

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Actually I made an error in my math. 514 * 0.59 = 303.26, not 319.19.

So 304 vaccinated people in Israel are in the hospital with covid, according to this math.

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Why is this a thing? Vaccines dont prevent the spread. They prevent you from getting seriously ill. Putting peoples livelihoods at risk over this is pointless. Follow the science? Yeah how about following your own advice and let people live their life.

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CableZL posted...

It just means vaccine efficacy wanes over time, which has been known for a while now. Israel is combatting this by giving people booster shots.

I got vaccinated when I was little. They didn't have me come back every 6 months to get another shot. It seems like a bad habit to be getting into especially for something that I can easily survive without issues.

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The level to which people don't seem to understand basic math is really weird.

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CableZL posted...

Also, from your link:
As of 15 August, 514 Israelis were hospitalized with severe or critical COVID-19, a 31% increase from just 4 days earlier. Of the 514, 59% were fully vaccinated.

Israel population: 9.053 million (2019)
Fully vaccinated: >78% as of August 31st. Source:
* https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-vaccine-data-how-many-have-already-been-inoculated-for-covid-1.9626604
9,053,000 people * .78 = 7,061,340

7,061,340 people in Israel fully vaccinated

541 in the hospital, according to your link
~59% of those are fully vaccinated

541 * .59 = 319.19

So let's just say that 320 fully vaccinated people in Israel are in the hospital with covid.

320 people out of over 7,000,000 people who are fully vaccinated

If the vaccine worked as planned, no vaccinated person would be in hospital.

CableZL posted...

The level to which people don't seem to understand basic math is really weird.

Fuck math

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TerraSeeker posted...

I got vaccinated when I was little. They didn't have me come back every 6 months to get another shot. It seems like a bad habit to be getting into especially for something that I can easily survive without issues.

Again, you're either ignorant of the facts or you're lying. Which is it? Multiple vaccines require multiple shots, including the ones given to children in their early years.

Recommended Child and Adolescent Immunization Schedule for ages 18 years or younger, United States, 2021
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/child-adolescent.html

• Hepatitis B: 3 doses (1 mo, 2 mo, 6 - 15 mo)
• Rotavirus: 2 doses (2 mo, 4 mo)
• Haemophilus influenzae type b: 4 doses (2 mo, 4 mo, 12 - 15mo)
• Pneumococcal conjugate: 4 doses (2 mo, 4 mo, 6 mo, 12 - 15mo)

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Galcian posted...

If the vaccine worked as planned, no vaccinated person would be in hospital.

False. No vaccine has 100% efficacy. The reason most vaccines work so well is because the overwhelming vast majority of the public takes them. Polio was eradicated in the US because so many people took the vaccine that we reached herd immunity.

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scorpion41 posted...

Yeah how about following your own advice and let people live their life.

Kinda hard for them to live their life if they're dying.

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desertman posted...

Kinda hard for them to live their life if they're dying.

If anything it's easier because it doesn't take as long

......

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CableZL posted...

Again, you're either ignorant of the facts or you're lying. Which is it? Multiple vaccines require multiple shots, including the ones given to children in their early years.

I didn't say they're weren't vaccines that required multiple doses, but I haven't going there every six months for boosters as is being suggested for covid. So get it right.

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CableZL posted...

False. No vaccine has 100% efficacy. The reason most vaccines work so well is because the overwhelming vast majority of the public takes them. Polio was eradicated in the US because so many people took the vaccine that we reached herd immunity.

You are ignoring the article. In Israel situation something very wrong is taking place. There shouldn't be a surge in new infections if *edit such a large proportion of population is vaccinated.

TerraSeeker posted...

I didn't say they're weren't vaccines that required multiple doses, but I haven't going there every six months for boosters as is being suggested for covid. So get it right.

I literally just showed you a chart of vaccines that require multiple doses, some of them up to 4 doses, some of which are recommended within a couple months from the previous one. Either read or don't bother to comment further.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Again I'm not sure I agree

There's a line between "you should obviously do this you idiot." and "We're going to force you to do this against your will."

Reminds me of when Ron Paul was advocating legalizing drugs and people were screaming "OH SO YOU WANT ADDICTS TO LITTER THE STREETS THEN!?"

As if the only thing stopping drug usage is cops throwing pot smokers into for profit prisons.

I'm not sure the function of government should be to force control over people's bodies. Even if that means stupid people do stupid decisions.

The solution is to have less stupid people, not a hugely controlling big government.

What are we going to do? Politely remind people to stop making stupid decisions and hope they don't harm too many other people in the meantime?

Not all decisions only affect yourself. You don't have free reign to do what you want with no regard for how they affect others.

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Galcian posted...

You are ignoring the article. In Israel situation something very wrong is taking place. There shouldn't be a surge in new infections if most of population is vaccinated.

You're showing a severe misunderstanding of what's going on.

• Waning vaccine efficacy
• Vaccines are less effective against the delta variant than the alpha variant

It was known from the beginning that letting covid run wild would give it a chance to mutate into something that the vaccines didn't work as well against. We let covid run wild and we have over 2000 variants that have been identified. The delta variant is the major problem globally right now because it's multiple times more infectious and vaccines are less effective against it. That's why we're looking at having a 3rd dose now.

The covid vaccines still have efficacy against the delta variant. Just not as much as against the alpha variant.

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CableZL posted...

I literally just showed you a chart of vaccines that require multiple doses, some of them up to 4 doses, some of which are recommended within a couple months from the previous one. Either read or don't bother to comment further.

Now you're just ignoring what I said. Try reading it again. You failed to cite one example where you are required to get a vaccine every six months for it to be effective. I've already stated as much, but you lack the reading comprehension apparently or are lying.

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CableZL posted...

You're showing a severe misunderstanding of what's going on.
* Waning vaccine efficacy
* Vaccines are less effective against the delta variant than the alpha variant

It was known from the beginning that letting covid run wild would give it a chance to mutate into something that the vaccines didn't work as well against. We let covid run wild and we have over 2000 variants that have been identified. The delta variant is the major problem globally right now because it's multiple times more infectious and vaccines are less effective against it. That's why we're looking at having a 3rd dose now.

The covid vaccines still have efficacy against the delta variant. Just not as much as against the alpha variant.

yeah so no herd immunity possible

WingsOfGood posted...

"Cops are racist and abuse their power"

So lets idk give them the ability to tell you that you cannot enter a grocery store.
Nothing bad can come of this surely!

The government is essential and we need to make it work for the people. Support good government and protest bad government. The options are not "accept bad government or abolish the government". We kind of give the government the right to shape society through laws when we vote for them.


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TerraSeeker posted...

Now you're just ignoring what I said. Try reading it again.

You said

TerraSeeker posted...

but I haven't going there every six months for boosters as is being suggested for covid.

If you were fully vaccinated according to the CDC-recommended vaccine schedule, you DID go back within a couple months for more doses.

If you haven't realized, covid is a new virus (which is why it's called the novel coronavirus).

novel
new or unusual in an interesting way.

1. We're learning as we go with covid. Right now, we don't know how many doses will end up being the final recommendation for covid. We know that the vaccines have a high amount of efficacy, but we're still learning about how the vaccines perform over time. We're seeing waning vaccine efficacy, as well as rapid mutations because it's spreading so much. We are learning that the vaccines are less effective against the delta variant over time, which is why a 3rd dose is being recommended.
2. The reason you aren't going back for more doses to get vaccinated against other viruses is because those viruses aren't spreading anywhere near enough to mutate. Because the vast majority of the public is vaccinated against them.
3. There are new flu vaccines every year.
4. If there was a new polio variant that cause the current vaccine schedule to be less efficacious, there would be a recommendation for a booster shot once it was developed.

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CableZL posted...

You're showing a severe misunderstanding of what's going on.
* Waning vaccine efficacy
* Vaccines are less effective against the delta variant than the alpha variant

It was known from the beginning that letting covid run wild would give it a chance to mutate into something that the vaccines didn't work as well against. We let covid run wild and we have over 2000 variants that have been identified. The delta variant is the major problem globally right now because it's multiple times more infectious and vaccines are less effective against it. That's why we're looking at having a 3rd dose now.

The covid vaccines still have efficacy against the delta variant. Just not as much as against the alpha variant.

It doesn't sound very strong then. It sounds like a therapy, which is good, but it is not the same as older vaccines like polio, etc.

Galcian posted...

It doesn't sound very strong then. It sounds like a therapy, which is good, but it is not the same as older vaccines like polio, etc.

The data shows the vaccines are very strong. The reason the polio was eradicated in the US was because the overwhelming vast majority of the public took the vaccine, and we started requiring kids to be vaccinated against polio before they were allowed to attend school. This prevented polio from mutating rapidly like covid is doing now.

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