Current Events > Avatar:TLA is so good and a part of me wants to watch Korra

(+) Yeah! (+)

Oh yeah, with all that, I forgot to share one more gripe I had.

Maybe it changes from this point on, but I'm absolutely baffled that people call Korra a Mary Sue. She loses sooooo much that I honestly have gotten annoyed at this point. Aang actually was a pretty big winner for the most part where it was actually shocking the times he flat out loses (end of season 2 and the Day of the Black Sun). Shoot, you know the early episode on Kyoshi Island where it feels like Aang will have to accept his defeat and let Kyoshi Island burn to the ground in order to continue fighting another day? If this was Korra, that'd be the end of it, I'm sure, but he actually was able to save the island at the last second.

Even their Avatar state, it felt like GG when Aang was in his, whereas with Korra, it feels very minimal in terms of an upgrade (with the exception of her trapping Vaatu in the elemental ball before she was interrupted). Aang lost against Azula, but that was more of a sneak-attack and if he was all ready, he would have wiped the floor with her.

In LoK, it feels like Korra has to lose in order for the plot to advance, which I wish she wouldn't have to lose so much actually. Even in the finales, she had to get bailed out by others, which is a stark contrast to Aang. I mean, perhaps that's the point, part of the show's point is to express the difference between her and Aang, but still! I guess, I just don't see how you can call her a Mary Sue unless you think her being able to move a rock a foot up in the very beginning to be the definition of a Mary Sue.

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Fucking agreed. It's one of the complaints I have absolutely never understood. Aang's much closer to a Mary Sue than she is and he isn't one. Korra isn't even the closest thing to a Mary Sue in her own show.

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Master Kazuya posted...

Wan is only good cause most of Korra sucks. As a random ass sideplot, it's better than whatever S2 was doing.

Now that you've finished season 1, I feel like I can talk about Amon. I thought he was one of the coolest villains ever and his role was a PERFECT fusion of TLA lore with modern age LOK political tension. It addressed the question that s1 Legend of Korra introduced, do we need the Avatar, really?

It seemed entirely plausible that a non bender would see equality as a righteous political cause and do so by removing all bending, developing a secret technique to remove bending, having a following, and actually having a point. Who is this guy? The fact that he's an older guy, so skilled, and clearly has some sort of resentment means maybe he's linked to TLA in some abstract way but grew into his own character.

And what was he?....Just a fucking bloodbender political narc generic bad guy. It was such a fucking letdown, especially the fact that he was a bender at the end of the day and had dumb ulterior motives.

He was the only reason I kept watching S1. I felt like Mako and Bolin started off strong but eventually degraded into 1 dimensional characters. Bolin was the Sokka wannabe but he was ONLY the doofus and comic relief and not any of the other things Sokka was in addition to that role. Mako went from independent fighter taking care of his bro semi-Zuko to "hmm do I wanna fuck Korra or Asami".

Yeah, I'd have to agree there. Ty Lee established chi blocking in the original, so yeah, people developing this technique would make sense over time. Also, I still stand by blood bending being something that can be done outside of the full moon being something that devalues it too.

I do think the murder-suicide was a pretty cool move though for the end of the season. I think season 1 was overall okay, and Amon was alright when it was said and done. If season 1 was it, though, it would have been a little strange as an ending, but I still think it was decent.


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pegusus123456 posted...

Fucking agreed. It's one of the complaints I have absolutely never understood. Aang's much closer to a Mary Sue than she is and he isn't one. Korra isn't even the closest thing to a Mary Sue in her own show.

It just has to do with the time-scale of the shows probably. With Korra, we see she knows 3 of the 4 right when we see her, but then we don't see how long it takes for her to truly be good at them. Then, it only takes one season for her to finally "complete" her training (not counting the spiritual training, and actually mastering air of course). Still, she's like 18 by the time she even learns air I'm pretty sure, and probably much older before she masters it.

Aang, on the other hand, took 3 seasons to do it, but that was all jampacked in less than a year in the story's time.

Like, when it came to earth-bending, Aang's greatest struggle, it took him a single episode to start making progress. Whereas with Korra, as mentioned, it took her the entire first season to start being able to do air! Let's not forget, Aang was the youngest air-bending master and only 12 when he did all of this. I love Aang, and think the Avatar should be powerful, so I don't mind this at all. It kinda is the point that the Avatar is powerful! It feels like Korra is not that, lol.

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PiOverlord posted...

It just has to do with the time-scale of the shows probably. With Korra, we see she knows 3 of the 4 right when we see her, but then we don't see how long it takes for her to truly be good at them. Then, it only takes one season for her to finally "complete" her training (not counting the spiritual training, and actually mastering air of course). Still, she's like 18 by the time she even learns air I'm pretty sure, and probably much older before she masters it.

Aang, on the other hand, took 3 seasons to do it, but that was all jampacked in less than a year in the story's time.

Like, when it came to earth-bending, Aang's greatest struggle, it took him a single episode to start making progress. Whereas with Korra, as mentioned, it took her the entire first season to start being able to do air! Let's not forget, Aang was the youngest air-bending master and only 12 when he did all of this. I love Aang, and think the Avatar should be powerful, so I don't mind this at all. It kinda is the point that the Avatar is powerful! It feels like Korra is not that, lol.

For what it's worth, I never got the idea that Aang had actually mastered all four elements by the series' end. He obviously mastered air and definitely water, but he hadn't been doing firebending for that long, and I believe Toph remarks at one point that his earthbending could still use some work later in the series. I thought that was part of the reason why they were originally going to wait out Sozin's Comet and confront the Firelord when Aang was actually prepared. I'm sure to the average layperson in-universe he would be considered a master, but not to the extent of previous Avatars that trained with the best benders in the world for years and years.

But yeah, definitely stick around for Book 3.

MorganTJ posted...

For what it's worth, I never got the idea that Aang had actually mastered all four elements by the series' end. He obviously mastered air and definitely water, but he hadn't been doing firebending for that long, and I believe Toph remarks at one point that his earthbending could still use some work later in the series. I thought that was part of the reason why they were originally going to wait out Sozin's Comet and confront the Firelord when Aang was actually prepared. I'm sure to the average layperson in-universe he would be considered a master, but not to the extent of previous Avatars that trained with the best benders in the world for years and years.

But yeah, definitely stick around for Book 3.

That's fair and true. Although, with earth, he did seem to get the seismic sight down in the end, so that's really impressive. But yeah, far from a master, and probably far from how strong he was by the time he was Korra's age.

In theory, wouldn't the Avatar be able to beat their teacher in their respective element by the time they are finished? We saw Roku able to beat his water-bending teacher in a fight and his earth-bending teacher in a race. Forget if he bested his air-bending teacher(s), but still, I assume he would have been rather impressive there too. I wasn't under the impression that Aang could beat Toph in a straight-up Earth-bending battle except if he were to use the Avatar state of course. I also don't remember him being as versatile as Katara was with water (did he even really use ice at all in the series), so I don't think he'd beat her either honestly. I mean, Katara and Toph were prodigies with blood bending and metal bending respectively but still.

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PiOverlord posted...

That's fair and true. Although, with earth, he did seem to get the seismic sight down in the end, so that's really impressive. But yeah, far from a master, and probably far from how strong he was by the time he was Korra's age.

In theory, wouldn't the Avatar be able to beat their teacher in their respective element by the time they are finished? We saw Roku able to beat his water-bending teacher in a fight and his earth-bending teacher in a race. Forget if he bested his air-bending teacher(s), but still, I assume he would have been rather impressive there too. I wasn't under the impression that Aang could beat Toph in a straight-up Earth-bending battle except if he were to use the Avatar state of course. I also don't remember him being as versatile as Katara was with water (did he even really use ice at all in the series), so I don't think he'd beat her either honestly. I mean, Katara and Toph were prodigies with blood bending and metal bending respectively but still.

I could see Aang eventually being able to beat Katara in waterbending, especially since Katara was still a relatively new bender, despite being a master. I don't see Aang being able to beat Toph's eartbending, since it's more than a martial art to her, and Aang's disciplines are spread thinner than being able to just focus on earthbending. Aang could definitely take Zuko as well. I never saw Zuko as a particularly gifted firebender - he was always a better ninja/swordsman than a bender, though. Zuko canonically trained with Piendao to a high level of proficiency before his exile, and at the beginning of this series Iroh was still trying to keep him on learning the firebending basics.

MorganTJ posted...

I could see Aang eventually being able to beat Katara in waterbending, especially since Katara was still a relatively new bender, despite being a master. I don't see Aang being able to beat Toph's eartbending, since it's more than a martial art to her, and Aang's disciplines are spread thinner than being able to just focus on earthbending. Aang could definitely take Zuko as well. I never saw Zuko as a particularly gifted firebender - he was always a better ninja/swordsman than a bender, though. Zuko canonically trained with Piendao to a high level of proficiency before his exile, and at the beginning of this series Iroh was still trying to keep him on learning the firebending basics.

Yeah, I felt bad for Zuko, but that's why I didn't include him, lol. He's definitely above-average, but it was never about his strength anyways I guess, lol. I mean, that was kinda the point that he wasn't that powerful, at least compared to his father and sister. If Aang had to pick any, I'd have my money on him beating Zuko in an Agni Kai before the other two. You do got a point about his swordsmanship, though. I sometimes overlook that since I think of him as a fire-bender first, but he won quite a few fights with those blades of his.

If there's one thing about Toph, it's that she literally immersed herself with the original earth-benders as her foundation to it all, so that definitely helps her out.

Also, I forgot, but since Korra establishes that Katara settled down to be a master healer, I suppose her fighting skills diminished at some point after the series finale of TLA.

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Okay now you are through the worst of Korra (the first two seasons). No more "lets not adventure" bs and just play made up bending sports the whole season.

I actually loved the last two seasons.

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Bump

No more "lets not adventure" bs and just play made up bending sports the whole season.

Pro bending was great though

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PiOverlord posted...

I have finally completed season 2 of LoK and... I kinda really hated it

Best part of completing this slog is the fact that now you get to jump into what is widely regarded as the best season. Enjoy that.

PiOverlord posted...

My last complaint about him is that the original series (along with this one) established non-benders having kids doesn't mean non-benders or vice versa for benders. The original even makes a point that bending is not a genetic gift but rather a spiritual gift. There was an episode with identical twins, I believe the fortune-teller episode, and one could earth bend while the other could not. It was the creators way of showing that even people with 100% of the same DNA may not share the gift of bending. I only bring this up because, let's say he takes away everyone's ability to bend. All it takes is one generation and there might be a whole new generation of benders. It feels like, the idea of making benders no more is futile from the start.

That was a little bit of a rant for something relatively minor, and the criticism isn't nearly as large as that might make it look from me.

Not a minor point. Completely valid observation.

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Makeveli_lives posted...

Bump

No more "lets not adventure" bs and just play made up bending sports the whole season.

Pro bending was great though

Well first off I hate sports so there's that and secondly the adventuring part of The last Airbender is what I thought was integral to the formula of the show. It's nice it's like even if you didn't like this episode you know that the scenery and theme is going to change in the next episode.

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deoxxys posted...

Well first off I hate sports so there's that and secondly the adventuring part of The last Airbender is what I thought was integral to the formula of the show. It's nice it's like even if you didn't like this episode you know that the scenery and theme is going to change in the next episode.

They kind of had to do that to establish the world though. And that's one thing I liked about korra more then the original too. We got to see lasting impacts because it was focused on showing a few areas, so we saw cities develop along with characters.

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Makeveli_lives posted...

Pro bending was great though

Hard disagree. Pro-bending felt like boring space filler to me. It wasnt bad visually, but I dont remember it advancing the plot in any meaningful way and it had the unfortunate side-effect of leading to a lot of the forced drama that drags the series down.

To each their own, though. If you liked it, more power to you.

Kami_no_Kami posted...

Pro-bending felt like boring space filler to me. It wasnt bad visually, but I dont remember it advancing the plot in any meaningful way and it had the unfortunate side-effect of leading to a lot of the forced drama that drags the series down.

Not everything needs to advance the plot. And again this is just setting up the world people live in and it's a logical progression, now that there's peace what would become of bending in society? You've got criminals sure but you've also got cops, you've got teachers, you've got movies with fake bending, and now you've got athletes. Think of it like guns instead of bending and it's the same thing. Bending doesn't need to intrinsically be tied to some greater purchase of saving people, there are different applications to just as there are for guns. In the original that couldn't be the case because for 3 seasons the fire nation was threat to everybody so that's all it was tied to. Korra expanded on that in a reasonable way.

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I kinda liked pro-bending myself. I get why some would find it pointless, but it was pretty fun.

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Makeveli_lives posted...

Not everything needs to advance the plot. And again this is just setting up the world people live in and it's a logical progression, now that there's peace what would become of bending in society? You've got criminals sure but you've also got cops, you've got teachers, you've got movies with fake bending, and now you've got athletes. Think of it like guns instead of bending and it's the same thing. Bending doesn't need to intrinsically be tied to some greater purchase of saving people, there are different applications to just as there are for guns. In the original that couldn't be the case because for 3 seasons the fire nation was threat to everybody so that's all it was tied to. Korra expanded on that in a reasonable way.

I dont have a problem with pro-bending being a thing. It is good world-building. I dont even have an issue with it being a part of the plot. Im just not really interested in it and dont think it shouldve been as much of a focus, especially in the first season.

I was intensely interested in the separatists, in Tenzins family and in Korras training and not at all in pro-bending. It always seemed like something the creators shoehorned it in there to give Korra a reason to form a relationship with Mako and Bolin.

I distinctly remember Nickelodeon ads at the time being like Hows Korra gonna beat the other team!? and myself just being frustrated because, firstly, I dont care, secondly, because it meant spending more time with Mako and Bolin, and most importantly, because it meant the real plot would be advanced very little, if at all, that week (and in general, given that seasons were only 12 episodes).

At one of the pro-bending matches the announcer said that they pulled off one wing-ding of a hat-trick. I thought that was funny and years later I still say that
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I mostly loved the pro-bending announcer. Apparently he uses his announcing voice all the time LMAO
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TLA was amazing because of characters like Zuko, Katara, Azula, and Iroh. These characters were by far the best written in all of TLA.

That's not to say the rest of the Gaang has bad writing or no character development, they're just not as interesting.

Korra is a MUCH more interesting and compelling Avatar, Imo.

Season 2 and 4 don't suck either. All of Korra is really, really solid.

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Perascamin posted...

TLA was amazing because of characters like Zuko, Katara, Azula, and Iroh. These characters were by far the best written in all of TLA.

That's not to say the rest of the Gaang has bad writing or no character development, they're just not as interesting.

Korra is a MUCH more interesting and compelling Avatar, Imo.

This is how I feel. People complain that Korra starts out being too good, but that's part of what makes her arc compelling through the course of the series. We see her at her most brash, arrogant, and abrasive at the very start of the series. And then she runs into challenges she can't easily overcome, and through the series she starts to really understand and appreciate the weight of being the Avatar. She endures legitimate trauma, she makes sincere attempts to act in the interests of the world rather than her reputation etc.

It's good shit. Not saying the entire plot is better than TLA, because Korra clearly suffered some from executive meddling and being jerked around by producers, but it turned out to be an extremely strong product and it takes priority over TLA for me when I'm in the mood to rewatch something Avatar related.

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Air bump.

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Oh, did TC finish up all 4 seasons now? I need to go through this topic and see their thoughts on it.

Edit -

Just seems like the first two seasons, which I personally love. I'll never understand at all why people think Korra is a bad show. Terrible opinions. Season 3 is by far the best, though, so there is that.

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I just feel like season 2 over-explained personally. I, personally, don't like when fantasy over-explains mythical origins. I've always believed in less is more, especially when the more is more results in things that felt more neutral really ending up being good vs evil.

The premise is still solid, and as I said, I just hope Raava is barely mentioned, and then I'm good with it from that point on. Still haven't gotten around to watching season 3, was about to now, but I'm just too tired, unfortunately!

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Makes sense

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Bump and tagged

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Season 3 is definitely a great turnaround so far. I'm just glad to be out of the spirit-world Raava/Vaatu good vs evil nonsense. I've liked the small bits of spirit stuff seen in this season; this is better in my opinion just for reasons I've already stated.

As I said before, part of my main interest in Korra was the reconstruction of the Air Nomad civilization, so this has been fun to watch in that regard. The episode they were trying to recruit new air nomads was pretty funny too!

Also screw the Earth Queen. She ate Bosco, wtf!!! Why did the show have to even let me know that happened! I already hated her before, but god damn, now I loathe her! Man, this is one time I wish Aang was the Avatar while this was going on because if he saw what she was doing to fellow air benders, you know he would have lost it. Remember how Roku just barged into Firelord Sozin's throne room and completely trashed his old friend along with half the palace? I wonder how Aang would have reacted finding out about the Earth Queen.

I actually didn't mind all the focus in Republic City or the Southern Water Tribe, but it is kinda nice to see some exploration again just like the old show. Also, I think Suyin vs Lin just might be my fight of the show so far. It was a damn nice earth vs earth fight. So far, outside of the Avatar final battle (as I like the fight due to seeing the elements work in conjunction with each other), I find the best battles of Avatar to be between excellent fighters of the same element. Katara vs Pakku, The Final Agni Kai, and now Suyin vs Lin are probably my favorite fights of the series. Perhaps, we can get an epic air vs air battle in the near future?

The episode I just finished is episode 7 by the way, so I'm now halfway done with this season.

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PiOverlord posted...

so I'm now halfway done with this season.

Some of the hypest moments of the series are coming your way.

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What do you think of Zaheer's gang?

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pegusus123456 posted...

What do you think of Zaheer's gang?

I forgot to even mention them, but they are what I imagined a villain group in the Avatar-verse to be. Back in the original Avatar, we got to see all the different element-benders join together to save the day. Finally, we get to see a distinct group fight the Avatar. It is a lot more interesting than always seeing "Fire nation bad; water nation bad; earth nation bad." Also glad the third eye fire bending concept is back. That was always one of the cooler villains in concept back in the original Avatar, so I'm glad they brought that back. Lava-bending is a pretty sick extended use of earth-bending (and a good change tbh from the original where they seemed to heavily imply that would be more of a fire-bending technique since fire = hot = lava). Finally, it's cool to see how airbending can be used for a less-than-righteous purpose for once. I hope to see some creative uses of a more aggressive air-bending in the upcoming episodes.

Character-wise, I don't have an opinion quite yet. None of the characters have been deeply explored nor their motivations, so I will withhold judgement until then. I just hope they aren't as one-dimensional as season 2 villains were! Zaheer does have this zealot-tone to him, as he obviously respects the ancient air-bending masters, but obviously is an extremist with the teachings.

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PiOverlord posted...

I hope to see some creative uses of a more aggressive air-bending in the upcoming episodes.

Hahaha...haha...yeah...there's at least one great technique that comes to mind.

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

Hahaha...haha...yeah...there's at least one great technique that comes to mind.

Nice. Can't wait to see it, lol!


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Welp, finished season 3. It is definitely a nice rebound from season 2. Vaatu being explained as a part of the Red Lotus plan along with showing up (albeit in hallucination form) gave me some ptsd though, yuck! As I mentioned before, the air nomads were the most appealing part of this show. I'm glad to see the large impact they get to have in this show. They are my favorite part of the show personally.

Man, this season definitely had more of what I like in terms of villains. As I said in the last post, I don't mind one-dimensional villains, I just hated Unalaq and Vaatu. The Earth Queen was a textbook "I kick puppies" kinda villain, and I did hate her, but in the way you should hate a villain. She reminded me more of Ozai, in that her basic one-dimensional villainy improved the overall ensemble. It's crazy that the show featured her gruesome suffocation, though. Props to the showrunners and Nick for letting it happen (I know Nick screwed this show over, but at least they did let the showrunners do things like this).

Zaheer himself was exactly what someone like Unalaq should have been. His motivations were less "evil = good" and more of a distorted view of what balance is. To be fair to him, as well, his points about how the leadership has failed was mostly true. The Avatar has long failed the people in terms of keeping them from suffering under oppressive rulership. The Firelords during the 100 year war, the Earth Queen, the Northern Water Tribe, and the president with his cowardice, has long been a major cause of people's discomfort in this world. In terms of grey villains, I feel he did it better than Amon did (who kinda fell flat in the end). Lastly, he gave me what I wanted in terms of seeing the extremes someone could go with air bending, so that was a plus as well.

His gang also gets points for actually being pretty likeable, in terms of villains, for the short amount they got to show a little personality. They were small moments, but I think they worked well. I believe the bending was at its best this season, as well, mainly because we got to see a wide range with the villains and heroes in terms of both primary and secondary powers. Also, I liked some of the new settings, the metal clan city was pretty sick. Suyin and Opal were great additions to the world as well imo. While some would have preferred if the original series was never mentioned, I'm glad to see characters like Zuko get a direct appearance, as well as the impact the former characters had on today's world.

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PiOverlord posted...

It's crazy that the show featured her gruesome suffocation, though. Props to the showrunners and Nick for letting it happen (I know Nick screwed this show over, but at least they did let the showrunners do things like this).

This is what my earlier post was referring to. LoK went hard for a Nickelodeon show. Between the murder-suicide in season 1 and this scene, it definitely raised the stakes.

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Zaheer is just a fantastic character. Some people were mad that Zaheer seems to have mastered airbending with zero training, but they even take that into account. Zaheer is by no means a master airbender. What he is is a master martial artist. If you watch his fight scenes, the vast majority of what he's doing with his airbending is extending the range of his martial arts and jumping higher. You can especially tell it when he fights Tenzin and it shows what an actual master can do.

I also liked that there was some push and pull with them. They succeed, but they also fail. I loved their failed kidnapping.

And also more absolutely brutal deaths. How many Nickelodeon shows have someone's head literally explode?

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pegusus123456 posted...

Zaheer is just a fantastic character. Some people were mad that Zaheer seems to have mastered airbending with zero training, but they even take that into account. Zaheer is by no means a master airbender. What he is is a master martial artist. If you watch his fight scenes, the vast majority of what he's doing with his airbending is extending the range of his martial arts and jumping higher. You can especially tell it when he fights Tenzin and it shows what an actual master can do.

I also liked that there was some push and pull with them. They succeed, but they also fail. I loved their failed kidnapping.

And also more absolutely brutal deaths. How many Nickelodeon shows have someone's head literally explode?

Yeah, considering he was an air bender devotee, I just figured it made sense he knew the technique many air benders possessed, on top of the martial art skills you mentioned. Tenzin would have won against Zaheer in a straight-up air vs air match, but we saw it quickly devolve into a 4 on 1.

With regards to everyone being defeated by him, I also just figure it has to do with many having no experience fighting air benders, nor records indicating how they did fight considering it had been 200 years since air benders were numerous in numbers.

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the problem i have with zaheer is he doesn't interact with korra until like 2/3rds of the way through the season. and while i think his ideology when it comes to wanting to get rid of the avatar had a lot of potential, the rest of his ideas to put it lightly, are fucking stupid. honestly sometimes it feels like the writers for the show took an intro to political science class and wanted to showcase it in a show

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the way I look at it. Air Bending is super overpowered as its been ages since there have been more than a handful so no one knows how to fight against them.

its my headcannon as to how Korra turned the tables on Amon. He could use his bloodbending to predict how people were going to attack. But he never knew how the air was going to act since hed never seen it.

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