Current Events > Why do people act like incels aren't right about looks?

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's objectively true that if they were better enough looking men, or women, they would probably get approached and then they wouldn't have a problem getting laid anymore.

Because they are not at this level of attractiveness, they're overlooked. Seems like the basic theory is solid. >_>
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Looks aren't all there is to attraction.
It's also they're entitled and generally have dangerous beliefs.

Imagine if I said 'you can't rape a woman if you're hot'. That's a belief they have.

You wouldn't date a woman if she was ugly either.

nothanks1 posted...

Looks aren't all there is to attraction.
It's also they're entitled and generally have dangerous beliefs.

Imagine if I said 'you can't rape a woman if you're hot'. That's a belief they have.

Obviously most things about the group are bad but I'm just talking about the looks theory here.

While looks aren't always all there is, enough looks can get your foot in the door even if your natural personality is undesirable. Especially in online dating where you can't express as much personality anyway, due to being limited to typed messages.
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It's privilege, that's all it is.

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SniperRifle505 posted...

You wouldn't date a woman if she was ugly either.

Yes I would. Don't assume everyone shares your standards. But this isn't about any of us individually.
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Because incels use attractiveness as a shield for their own shitty personalities and entitlement to explain why they can't get laid.

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https://www.rareddit.com/r/Braincels/comments/908dla/jfl_at_framecels_is_there_a_worse_fate_than_being/

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Because they're whiny folks who think all their problems would be solved if they were more attractive.

They wouldn't know what do to with looks.

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Graycap posted...

Yes I would. Don't assume everyone shares your standards. But this isn't about any of us individually.

Prove it. Show us your ugly gf RIGHT NOW

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The problem here is you're breaking down a specific thing they believe and ignoring the rest, while you're not considering that no one is really disagreeing with that part alone either.

They just overstate it's value and like this guy said

Umbreon posted...

Because they're whiny folks who think all their problems would be solved if they were more attractive.

They wouldn't know what do to with looks.

Their problem is they also have garbage personalities. They wouldn't do well even with looks.

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Attitude plays more of a role than looks.

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Sometimes a man is "good enough" in the looks department for a woman, and she evaluates him on other criteria such as: Can he afford to take her on fun dates? Is he a kind person? What else does he bring to the table that her other options don't?

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Looks get you looked at.
Personality gets you looked for.

Just because they're not approaching you does not mean you're absolutely SOL if you approach them.

Theory annihilated.
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I dont think anyone doesnt think being ugly puts you at a disadvantage for entering relationships, but incels are rarely ugly to the point where no one would bother. Theyre usually generic looking dudes with something else holding them back, be it insanely vain standards for the looks of others or an incredibly unappealing personality, who try to blame it on not being born with the perfect cheekbones or the wrong chin or whatever

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They are right, but the most dedicated incels usually admit they don't want too looksmaxx because they want to be accepted for who they are. If they were born into an aesthetic body they would probably have a better life, but there are so many things that could have went wrong that usually didn't in their case.

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metallica846 posted...

Elliot Rodger wasn't ugly and had money.

Still ended up a kissless virgin.

He was decent looking but incel theory says average isn't enough for everyone. According to the theory someone with Rodger's personality and disorders would've needed to be tall, handsome, and chiseled to succeed.

BloodMoon7 posted...

Prove it. Show us your ugly gf RIGHT NOW

Being willing to date homely women doesn't mean I have any ability to do so. >_>

One_Day_Remains posted...

Just because they're not approaching you does not mean you're absolutely SOL if you approach them.

Theory annihilated.

That depends on the person. Some people have social impediments that keep them from developing approach skills. Look at the "creeps" who just fuck up any time they go after women. Look at the "nice guys" who don't know how to pursue women in any way but a friendly manner. They're weird or boring and just don't have "it".

Non-hideous guys who are still incels are presumably in this situation where their natural personalities just do not work and they would've needed even better looks to ever stand a chance.
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Graycap posted...

He was decent looking but incel theory says average isn't enough for everyone. According to the theory someone with Rodger's personality and disorders would've needed to be tall, handsome, and chiseled to succeed.

Being willing to date homely women doesn't mean I have any ability to do so. >_>

That depends on the person. Some people have social impediments that keep them from developing approach skills. Look at the "creeps" who just fuck up any time they go after women. Look at the "nice guys" who don't know how to pursue women in any way but a friendly manner. They're weird or boring and just don't have "it".

Non-hideous guys who are still incels are presumably in this situation where their natural personalities just do not work and they would've needed even better looks to ever stand a chance.

A guy who looks good enough differs from woman to woman... maybe he's just not her type.

Attractive people having an advantage in social settings isn't anymore shocking than outgoing people having an advantage.

The problem is they use it as an excuse to give up.

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SniperRifle505 posted...

A guy who looks good enough differs from woman to woman... maybe he's just not her type.

On an individual basis yes. But if it's frequent enough to cause an incel situation (no partners ever) then there's a more fundamental mismatch.

Darmik posted...

Attractive people having an advantage in social settings isn't anymore shocking than outgoing people having an advantage.

The problem is they use it as an excuse to give up.

In some guys' cases there's nothing more they can do. If you're permanently shy and awkward and need to be approached to get anywhere, not being attractive is a death sentence.
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I suppose there's an argument to be made that many wouldn't have such a shitty attitude if they had grown through their formative years with anyone expressing any kind of interest in them, but that kind of is what it is.

They could just as easily do thought experiments about if they were born rich or with super powers. Youre here now. Deal with what you've got and change what you can/are willing to.

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Graycap posted...

In some guys' cases there's nothing more they can do. If you're permanently shy and awkward and need to be approached to get anywhere, not being attractive is a death sentence.

Being able to approach and talk to people is a standard skill people need to learn to actually succeed at life. It goes beyond dating.

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Jiek_Fafn posted...

I suppose there's an argument to be made that many wouldn't have such a shitty attitude if they had grown through their formative years with anyone expressing any kind of interest in them, but that kind of is what it is.

They could just as easily do thought experiments about if they were born rich or with super powers. Youre here now. Deal with what you've got and change what you can/are willing to.

If the complaint is about the lack of interest there's not much that can be done. It's literally be attractive or don't. Can't change not being physically desirable to people, and that's really all the grievance is about.
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Darmik posted...

Being able to approach and talk to people is a standard skill people need to learn to actually succeed at life. It goes beyond dating.

Some attractive people do fine without these skills. And besides, you can be good at other types of socializing but just not not approaching and escalating with women.
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Graycap posted...

Some attractive people do fine without these skills. And besides, you can be good at other types of socializing but just not not approaching and escalating with women.

The attractive people you're envying have social skills.

The better social life you have the more you interact with women and the more opportunities you have to make a connection with someone. We haven't all approached our girlfriends and wives as total strangers in a bar with a cheesy pick-up line.

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Jiek_Fafn posted...

I suppose there's an argument to be made that many wouldn't have such a shitty attitude if they had grown through their formative years with anyone expressing any kind of interest in them, but that kind of is what it is.

I think this is a key factor that often gets overlooked.

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Solar_Crimson posted...

Because incels use attractiveness as a shield for their own shitty personalities and entitlement to explain why they can't get laid.

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Pandemic times, so this idea is less verifiable, but: Go to a populated, recreational area. Look at the couples. Is everyone super hot? No, they're average-looking. A few will be very attractive, a few will be uglier than average, and this is generally going to be the case anywhere you go.

The arguments and theories exist mostly to project a warped sense of reality. You have to be in a very bad way to be completely overlooked, not just "not attractive".

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Guide posted...

You have to be in a very bad way to be completely overlooked, not just "not attractive".

Ouch...

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KogaSteelfang posted...

Ouch...

Buddy, you've explained your lot, and I don't blame you for any of it, but I think you would agree that a lot of the turmoil you carry is a "very bad way".

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Graycap posted...

Obviously most things about the group are bad but I'm just talking about the looks theory here.

While looks aren't always all there is, enough looks can get your foot in the door even if your natural personality is undesirable. Especially in online dating where you can't express as much personality anyway, due to being limited to typed messages.

This is how it is for me. I got my foot in the door enough to have sex with 1 girl in my life at age 32. I'm 6'2 with 8/10 looks. I have it pretty rough though, I have socially-induced PTSD/severe anxiety. My personality isn't bad but with the anxiety it's impossible to express it because I can't relax and enjoy a conversation, I just have to get out and away from everybody asap.

I get a lot of smiles and signs that the girl likes me but I've never been asked out by a girl. I think none of them have been bold enough to do so. The girl I did have sex with only happened because a nice little old lady knew her and set us up on a date.

To other guys out there struggling, please remember that no matter how nervous you are about making a move on a girl, they're FAR more nervous than you ever will be. Only the boldest (or most desperate) of girls will do it.

When did this become a incel exclusive train of thought? This has always been a thing.

It's just that many refuse to accept or even acknowledge it usually due to the fear of being labeled shallow I guess.


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Graycap posted...

That depends on the person. Some people have social impediments that keep them from developing approach skills. Look at the "creeps" who just fuck up any time they go after women. Look at the "nice guys" who don't know how to pursue women in any way but a friendly manner. They're weird or boring and just don't have "it".

I'm not following how it's impossible to develop these approach skills. Yeah, some people have setbacks that make it harder, but permanently impede?

For a lot of people they just really need to learn not to do certain things. Having peer feedback could help; especially if it's from other girls.
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Guide posted...

Buddy, you've explained your lot, and I don't blame you for any of it, but I think you would agree that a lot of the turmoil you carry is a "very bad way".

Yeah, sure, I'll give you that. Though, it's not like I go around irl like I do here. No one in my life even knows that kind of stuff about me.

Demon1050 posted...

I have it pretty rough though, I have socially-induced PTSD/severe anxiety. My personality isn't bad but with the anxiety it's impossible to express it because I can't relax and enjoy a conversation, I just have to get out and away from everybody asap.

Are you me? I think-

Demon1050 posted...

I got my foot in the door enough to have sex with 1 girl in my life at age 32.

Ah, no. Leaps and bounds ahead.

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Graycap posted...

In some guys' cases there's nothing more they can do. If you're permanently shy and awkward and need to be approached to get anywhere, not being attractive is a death sentence.

That's just an excuse to not try.

I'm shy, socially awkward, and my looks aren't anything to write home about. Still managed to have a few girlfriends in my life.

Being shy is one thing. Being gutless is another. If you aren't even willing to attempt your shot, why should you see success? Falling flat on your face is more respectable than hating women because one won't blow you just for existing.

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A phrase which often comes up in these conversations is 'Just World Fallacy'. For their own peace of mind most people need to believe that the factors within their control take precedence over those they were born with.
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Umbreon posted...

That's just an excuse to not try.

I'm shy, socially awkward, and my looks aren't anything to write home about. Still managed to have a few girlfriends in my life.

Being shy is one thing. Being gutless is another. If you aren't even willing to attempt your shot, why should you see success? Falling flat on your face is more respectable than hating women because one won't blow you just for existing.

I mentioned guys trying and failing repeatedly though as well. Like half the incels are in that position. Some people don't have the talent for this particular thing. They needed to be handsome to make up for it.

I'm not condoning hate or bigotry, just the part where a guy's sad about not being attractive and approached and not being able to approach right themselves.

Joelypoely posted...

A phrase which often comes up in these conversations is 'Just World Fallacy'. For their own peace of mind most people need to believe that the factors within their control take precedence over those they were born with.

Yeah, we see it with a lot of things in life.
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There seems to be some luck involved, too. Like it could be that there are plenty of women who could look past your looks and like your personality, or even like your looks, but for whatever reason, the women you've tried to talk to haven't been them.

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Lol there's no such thing as "permanently shy and socially awkward" unless you have real severe social anxiety or you're lower functioning on the spectrum. This is absolutely a skill that can be worked on. Is it difficult? Yes. It's very difficult. But it's not impossible unless you have extreme factors impeding it
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But theres millions of average looking people that if their personality is great youd look past their average looks. Hell some could even work out/dress better/make up and be decently attractive. But if you dont try and just bitch that youre a gentleman no one gives a fuck.

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Incels don't get laid because incels hate women

Also incels tend to whine about not getting very attractive women. Other less attractive women are invisible to them and don't "count".

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Derwood posted...

Incels don't get laid because incels hate women

lots of men who hate women get laid, that means so little

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People can't get laid because they're ugly. They develop negative personalities because they can't get laid.

It's like alcohol dependency and the negative attitudes they have. They don't drink too much because they're jerks. They're jerks because they drink too much.

One_Day_Remains posted...

Lol there's no such thing as "permanently shy and socially awkward" unless you have real severe social anxiety or you're lower functioning on the spectrum. This is absolutely a skill that can be worked on. Is it difficult? Yes. It's very difficult. But it's not impossible unless you have extreme factors impeding it

Well there you go, there's a scenario where it's possible. >_>

Mentally disordered attractive people run into more people willing to lift them up and help than mentally disordered plain or unattractive people.

Derwood posted...

Incels don't get laid because incels hate women

What about virgins who don't hate women? Why don't they get laid?

Don't dismiss the social problems shyness, passivity, awkwardness, and developmental issues can cause.

nfearurspecimn posted...

Also incels tend to whine about not getting very attractive women. Other less attractive women are invisible to them and don't "count".

Those are fakers. I'm only talking about those who can't find anyone, regardless of standards.
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Graycap posted...

Those are fakers. I'm only talking about those who can't find anyone, regardless of standards.

idk, part of me thinks those people could, they just don't want to feel like they're jumping through hoops to get companionship

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